SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid

[Duckweed]

This is a nice idea. I had thought about moving the Scout too, but I came to the conclusion that he is best left behind as a fogbuster.

I am resigned to the Archer pillaging the road that he is standing on. But if he moves back to pillage the Gold, that will be a huge sink for our Workers. This is something I am keen to avoid.

If the archer move toward settler, then we can sacrifice the scout to gain more time for the new axe from Rice pudding to react.

For Asoka, I will run some tests tomorrow. I'd like to check:

1. Worker bait. How does this affect the AI?
   
   He will send an archer to chase it for sure, however, there's already an archer 1N of the Ivory. Therefore, as I said, pull the worker back and just let it go south.
   
2. Woodman II Axe. I would like to know, if this threatens Asoka's second city, will he move out more troops?
   
   This city is too small to be important in Asoka's mind. Also, he did not send previously and already send one with 4 in his capital..
   
3. Odds against his current garrison. In the test file, his city has 50% odds and a CG I Archer. The real game has neither of these. (40% culture, two Combat I Archers, two without promotions).

With regular luck, 2 axes handle an archer.

At present, and depending on tests, I am personally keen to move our units on the assumption that we are going to attack as planned, on T62. That is, we will form a stack on the PH 1S of the Marble.

Move the SoD as the original plan, the woodman II axe could see the defense in Asoka's capital every turn. Abort the attack if you see 5 archers, otherwise 9 axes vs 4 archers. Hand the save to soundjata and a great TGW city with granary in our hand!

This keeps our options open. The only downside is that the defenders in Sheepish will lose the accumulated fortify bonus, and the Shock Axe (4.5/5) cannot heal.

There's no barbarian in sight for now and we could produce an axe in 3 turn if we work the PH mine.

 

[kossin]

Wow tough break. I guess my luck washed out on you at the end of last SGOTM.

Like I said, I don't really have much time these days (see my lack of updating the AI tourney for instance) to test and play but I can give some input from time to time (rather than not post at all).

 

[Doshin]

@soundjata and kossin

I guess you guys will be responsible for the late game, then.

----

Running some tests:

(1) 9 Axemen versus 4 Archers (2x Combat I, 2 x no promotion)

Victories = 9
Losses = 1

(2) 9 Axemen versus 5 Archers (2x Combat I, 2 x no promotion, 1 "whipped" with no promo)

Victories = 6
Losses = 4

Loss 1: 1 Archer left
Loss 2: 1 Archer left, 1.4/3 health
Loss 3: 1 Archer left, 0.3/3 health
Loss 4: 1 Archer left, 0.1/3 health

----

I didn't test with 6 defenders, because it is clear that we would need too much luck for it to be reliable.

 

[Doshin]

My best results with Worker baiting come consistently with the following:

Spoiler :

Will this happen in the real game? Who knows. There is some randomness regarding AI behavior. I can only play according to my intuition and what the tests show.

Besides, the Worker can road the Rice while he's waiting.

 

[Doshin]

For the attack itself, if it comes to that (four turns away?), I may need someone (Duckweed?) to play on my behalf.

Just as a visual demonstration of my hardware issues, if I enter WB, select a unit, and move the cursor around the map (without clicking) this happens within 5 seconds:

Spoiler :

For Workers and regular play, it is not such an issue because most commands can be entered through the keyboard, and I pause when moving around the map.

For an attack, individual units need to be selected from a stack and promotions granted on a case-by-case basis. It is more finicky.

I will let you know closer to the time.

 

[pomthom]

OK I'm more or less up to speed (although not completely familiar with the micro).

I can certainly help with tests and comments for the current set but I don't know if I'd have what it takes to take over on Tuesday.

However I should be pretty much evenly available until the end of the game.

In the meantime, Dosh can you think of something I could test today?

-------------------------

@Team: let's try to organize a bit our availabilities. Can every one give the windows where they have enough time to take a set (as in post PPPs and actually play) in the following weeks? Even if uncertain, it will clear our visibility.

 

[soundjata]

WTH you need to buy a mouse or something?

Great tests anyways.

You might want to correct your post #503, where it reads: "4 defenders/4 defenders/6 defenders" it's kinda confusing...

If it comes to that I am willing to perform the attack and test my legendary luck

edit: Xpost with pomthom.
Availability: As late as possible. Should be ok in April.

 

[pomthom]

For the attack itself, if it comes to that (four turns away?), I may need someone (Duckweed?) to play on my behalf.

I probably could but I feel Civ-rusted after this 2-week break
I don't trust myself and I don't think you should

But if it's just for the attack and someone is there to double check my every move I guess it's alright.

But if Duckweed is available to do it, the better

-------

EDIT:

If it comes to that I am willing to perform the attack and test my legendary luck

SCRATCH THAT if soundjata is feeling lucky...

 

[Doshin]

^^^^ it's the trackpad, which I am taking to be repaired on Tuesday. I hope that you recognize my need for slow play these past few days.

Like I said, I don't think I will be able to push my luck in terms of clicking nine units and awarding promotions.

----

I think we're fine for now on the testing front. I just need to rewrite the next few turns and will then resume.

Do you guys have a preference for the NW Axe's next move? He can go 1W (= safe) or 1N (= risky, reveals more, can move through Forests next turn).

I prefer safety, and to move directly west towards Kublai.

 

[pomthom]

An idea: what about gifting Alpha to Toku now before he trades for it with Kublai? (if we wait for the +1 sustained peace we take the risk of him getting Alpha in the meantime)

 

[pomthom]

Do you guys have a preference for the NW Axe's next move? He can go 1W (= safe) or 1N (= risky, reveals more, can move through Forests next turn).

What about 1NW? (a bit less risky)

Anyway I think I'd prefer safety with 1W and actually maybe go through Kublai's territory (using roads and forests) giving us a better chance of meeting the other AIs? (not too compfortable with freakin Longbows roaming about)

EDIT: is it possible kcd gave the Barbs Feud??

 

[Duckweed]

@Team: let's try to organize a bit our availabilities. Can every one give the windows where they have enough time to take a set (as in post PPPs and actually play) in the following weeks? Even if uncertain, it will clear our visibility.

I have more time available this time, with a new PC.

If pomthom is willing to take the battles, show your luck.

What about 1NW? (a bit less risky)

Anyway I think I'd prefer safety with 1W and actually maybe go through Kublai's territory (using roads and forests) giving us a better chance of meeting the other AIs? (not too compfortable with freakin Longbows roaming about)

+1

EDIT: is it possible kcd gave the Barbs Feud??

Possible, although that's a design to cause more RNG based results.

@ Doshin

We need to send more workers north, also need to road toward the horse site.

 

[Duckweed]

An idea: what about gifting Alpha to Toku now before he trades for it with Kublai? (if we wait for the +1 sustained peace we take the risk of him getting Alpha in the meantime)

Maybe, just one thing to be considered is that there's might be some AI hate him although it looks like this map was crammed with warmongers.

 

[Doshin]

We might be able to lure the archer around the gold mine out by our worker and settler
settler to 2E of the archer
Worker on GH mine to PH hill 2S of the Cow
Worker 1N of the Rice to 1W of the Cow

I am happy to follow your micro, but am not sure what the bolded Worker do on T60? Road?

You can update after we have seen the Archer movement IBT, if you'd like, rather than covering all possibilities.

What about 1NW? (a bit less risky)

Anyway I think I'd prefer safety with 1W and actually maybe go through Kublai's territory (using roads and forests) giving us a better chance of meeting the other AIs? (not too compfortable with freakin Longbows roaming about)

Sorry, I meant the choice was between 1W or 1NW. I was trying to recall the exploration from memory.

Two votes (three now with Duckweed) for the safer 1W are enough for me.

EDIT: is it possible kcd gave the Barbs Feud??

I don't think so, but it is possible. We haven't see any Longbows spawn, and I am inclined to think that the one attacking Tokugawa came from a pre-settled city.

@ Doshin

We need to send more workers north, also need to road toward the horse site.

I moved two of Asoka's captured Workers 1NW and 2N1W of Case Depart. I plan to build roads on these tiles for later chops. They can then move towards the Desert/Gold in two turns, if it is pillaged. Or else, they can road towards the horse site.

 

[Doshin]

Since Tokugawa does not yet have a religion, the current turn would be a good time to perform the gift. He is more likely to become someone's enemy by switching into the wrong religion that someone's friend.

 

[Doshin]

Shall we take 10G as well?

Spoiler :

The "stop trading with Napoleon" is only there to show that Toku is not researching Alphabet.

 

[Doshin]

I'm just going to gift Alpha. If taking 10G only results in +3 relations, that does us much more harm than the +10G would do us good.

 

[Doshin]

Freaking game...

Spoiler :

Ending turn now.

 

[Doshin]

Barbs:

Spoiler :

Thessalonica just built a Worker. Constantinople is still at size 5. As I said before, I think it is building a Worker or Settler.

One of Asoka's Archers is chasing the Worker:

Spoiler :

I made an error, in that I should have moved our Axe 1NE last turn.

I favor moving the stack into no-man's land, and moving our Axe 1NE now.

I could move the Axe onto the Desert Hill to scout. However, if Asoka has built a Worker, it will road the Floodplains. In tests, an Archer from the city then uses this road to move towards our Worker bait.

 

[Doshin]

(1) Rice Pudding

Spoiler :

(a) Stagnate growth and build Axeman.

(2) Sheepish

Spoiler :

(a) Work PH this turn, to build Axeman on T60.
(b) Work Grass Farm and whip, to build Axe on T61 with OF.
(c) Work Grass Farm this turn and the next. Build Axe on T61, no OF.

(3) Southern Stack

Spoiler :

(a) Move WII Axe 1NE. Move stack into no-man's land.
(b) Move WII Axe 1N. Decide stack movement then.

(4) Northern Workers/Settler

Spoiler :

Worker 1W of Cow. Move 1W. Road and cancel.
Worker on PH. Move 2N1E.
Settler. Move 2N1E.
Scout. Move 1SW.

----

(1) Rice Pudding is not contentious.
(2) I have bolded my preference.
(3) I have bolded my preference.
(4) I describe the micro.

Please let me know about 2-4 especially.

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Edit: for Sheepish, the only reason to work the PH on T59 is to build an Axe a turn sooner and therefore enable a whip of another Axe on T61.

This is the most conservative micro, I think. It assumes that an Axe could spawn 3E1S or 3E2S of the city. Sheepish has no Barracks, so one Axe can easily lose to a barb Axe and a Warrior.

We would not whip the Axe if the city is safe, OFC.