SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Some comments on the save.
Partial slider to finish PP, we have a few combat HAs to be upgrade. While military progress is more likely the bottleneck, I prefer HA upgrade now.
KK has 1 gpt to offer.
Dye Hard is better to work on the GH cottage than the unimproved Dye, we need some hammers to finish the market.
Shall we hire a scientist in capital? not only to enhance the odd of a GS, but also that the happiness becomes an issue in big cities. Let Sheepish work on the GH cottage then.
The most important thing, I'd like to prioritized the settlement of the crab site site as soon as possible. The workers should ignore the Dye next and go directly for the works I marked below. Let's send 4 workers there immediately. A settler (probably right after the current Cui build in Golden Sands) need to be timed to settled the site in the fastest way.
Partial slider to finish PP, we have a few combat HAs to be upgrade. While military progress is more likely the bottleneck, I prefer HA upgrade now.
KK has 1 gpt to offer.
Dye Hard is better to work on the GH cottage than the unimproved Dye, we need some hammers to finish the market.
Shall we hire a scientist in capital? not only to enhance the odd of a GS, but also that the happiness becomes an issue in big cities. Let Sheepish work on the GH cottage then.
The most important thing, I'd like to prioritized the settlement of the crab site site as soon as possible. The workers should ignore the Dye next and go directly for the works I marked below. Let's send 4 workers there immediately. A settler (probably right after the current Cui build in Golden Sands) need to be timed to settled the site in the fastest way.
Spoiler :
1) We have two injured Cuirassiers:Mini-PPP T125-T130 final draft - updates in bolded indigo
General comments
- ~35 Cuirs are produced over 6 turns (agressive scenario but no city is whipped 3 times)
- KK war date (more T131 but we'll see how it goes):
a. T130 DoW with 15/16 Cuirs (+HAs), 6 other Cuirs will already be on the border but with 0/2; OR
b. T131 DoW with 21/22 Cuirs (+HAs), 5 other Cuirs will already be on the border but with 0/2
Spoiler :
2) Toku's barbarian city:
Spoiler :
The Horse Archers in Lalibela can get there in 2 turns.
The downside is that this takes troops away from KK.
OTOH, what will Tokugawa have to defend in this city? The AI doesn't use Longbows to attack barb cities. So I would expect some Horse Archers, Chariots... maybe an Axe? They are probably injured, too.
It is an easy source of Spices. Kublai Khan doesn't have any Spices near to us. And Case Départ is already close to the happy cap.
This would also keep our Horse Archers useful (we can't upgrade them all) and puts us one city closer to the domination limit.
1). The medic Axe is too far away. We could let the 2 wounded Cui stay on the Dye tile to recover.
2). There are only 4 combat HAs to be upgraded, which needs 1 turn of 0% science slider. Distracting to the spice city means less Cuis to KK front. Either send a couple of Cuis there or leave it when we have spare units after the war with KK starts.
2). There are only 4 combat HAs to be upgraded, which needs 1 turn of 0% science slider. Distracting to the spice city means less Cuis to KK front. Either send a couple of Cuis there or leave it when we have spare units after the war with KK starts.
1) The Woodsman III Axe is by the Dye, but the Medic Axe is 1N of Lalibela.
If you move the hurt Cuirassiers this turn, they lose 1.5/2 movement because there is no road on their present tile. They also cannot move directly towards Toledo, due to the Forest Hill. So moving this turn loses a turn of healing for no gain.
Fortifying this turn means that no overall movement is lost (assuming both go directly towards Toledo, on T128) and the Cuirassiers are able to partially heal. 2 Worker turns are used to build the road.
(edit: I assume that the tile 1SW of Addis Ababa will acquire a road by the time we declare.)
2) I count seven Cuirassiers in our territory. There are five in Lalibela. I don't know how many of these are combat HAs, but at least three have Flanking II.
Any Horse Archers that move from Lalibela ---> Spices will be back in our territory by T131. They would be able to help attack Kublai's second/third ring cities (Barcelona, Madrid), although some will need to heal.
There are also two HAs NW of Lalibela, which will go straight to Kublai.
The Spice city will be poorly defended and our plan is/was to ceasefire with Tokugawa ASAP, due to war weariness.
The Spices grant +1
in all cities, and unhappiness will be a problem when we switch out of Police State. It is already dangerous in several cities (Case Depart, Sea Horse, Sheepish, Rice Pudding). We cannot capture the other barb Spice city in the immediate future, because we need the Forest chops here to go to the Crabs city.I didn't anticipate redeclaring against Tokugawa and would prefer to sign a ceasefire ASAP. That was why I am keen to capture this city now, especially since Toku's troops are likely to be hurt (and it is not likely that he has any Archer of Longbow defenders).
1) The Woodsman III Axe is by the Dye, but the Medic Axe is 1N of Lalibela.
If you move the hurt Cuirassiers this turn, they lose 1.5/2 movement because there is no road on their present tile. They also cannot move directly towards Toledo, due to the Forest Hill. So moving this turn loses a turn of healing for no gain.
Fortifying this turn means that no overall movement is lost (assuming both go directly towards Toledo, on T128) and the Cuirassiers are able to partially heal. 2 Worker turns are used to build the road.
(edit: I assume that the tile 1SW of Addis Ababa will acquire a road by the time we declare.)
These 2 Cuirassiers can arrive the Dye tile on T128, fully healed and move to 2S2E of Toledo on T131 (with a road SW of AA), which means they can attack Toledo on T132. No problem with T131 DOW plan. Even we are ready to DOW on T130, these 2 Cuis has no problem of participating the battles in Madrid. So there's no need to hurry a road on that tile since I'd like some workers to go north for the crab city as fast as possible.
2) I count seven Cuirassiers in our territory. There are five in Lalibela. I don't know how many of these are combat HAs, but at least three have Flanking II.
Any Horse Archers that move from Lalibela ---> Spices will be back in our territory by T131. They would be able to help attack Kublai's second/third ring cities (Barcelona, Madrid), although some will need to heal.
There are also two HAs NW of Lalibela, which will go straight to Kublai.
The Spice city will be poorly defended and our plan is/was to ceasefire with Tokugawa ASAP, due to war weariness.
The Spices grant +1
I didn't anticipate redeclaring against Tokugawa and would prefer to sign a ceasefire ASAP. That was why I am keen to capture this city now, especially since Toku's troops are likely to be hurt (and it is not likely that he has any Archer of Longbow defenders).
The fact that Toku captured the barbarian city really surprised me. That city was defended by 2 LBs including a CGII LB if you remember the last turn in my set where I stole a worker there. Therefore Toku might has more than 1 units around that city, or another possibility was that the barbarian LBs left the city by themselves and gave Toku's wandering Axe the chance of stealing it. In the latter case, we are going to face barbarian LBs again.
I have interesting in taking that city, but I'm wondering whether this move is going to slow down our war progress vs KK. We are able to promote all combat HAs to Cuis before the war, so except flanking HAs, drawing any other HAs to that city means weaker forces against the war with KK.
If we really want the city, as I suggested
Or alternatively, 1 Cui nearby and Flanking HAs.
The Cuirassiers can heal for two turns 1E of Yeha, which would require a road, or one turn on the Dye, which would not require a road.
However, if you are worried about Worker turns, then OFC the Dye is better.
---
I assume Toku's Axe attacked the Spice city. He also had at least 1 HArcher left that moved out of Yeha.
It is possible that the barbs behaved as they did when you stole a Worker, where one Longbow had attacked an AI unit, leaving a solitary defender. It is rare for the AI to completely abandon cities, and not too challenging for an Immortal AI to use 1–2 HAs + 1 Axe to defeat a Longbow.
Yeha:
T127: (heal)
T128: (heal)
T129: move 4NW
T130: move 4NW
T131: move 3NW/invade
Dye:
T127: move 2W2N
T128: move 4NW
T129: (heal)
T130: move 3NW
T131: move 2NW/invade
Healing for two turns in friendly territory with a Medic I unit is more effective than healing for one turn with a Woodsman III/Medic I unit. I haven't tested, but am 95% sure that neither combination will fully heal our units.T127: (heal)
T128: (heal)
T129: move 4NW
T130: move 4NW
T131: move 3NW/invade
Dye:
T127: move 2W2N
T128: move 4NW
T129: (heal)
T130: move 3NW
T131: move 2NW/invade
However, if you are worried about Worker turns, then OFC the Dye is better.
---
I assume Toku's Axe attacked the Spice city. He also had at least 1 HArcher left that moved out of Yeha.
It is possible that the barbs behaved as they did when you stole a Worker, where one Longbow had attacked an AI unit, leaving a solitary defender. It is rare for the AI to completely abandon cities, and not too challenging for an Immortal AI to use 1–2 HAs + 1 Axe to defeat a Longbow.
These 2 Cuis can still get 2 turns of healing. A road SW of AA is needed in any case, while a road 1E of Yeha is unnecessary. There's no difference that these 2 Cuis could attend the battles in time, even without the road. The real difference of either way is the worker turns.
Even in the best case, Combat HA does not guarantee the success, that's why I suggested at least 1 Cui with some flanking HAs. If we want the city, we'd better prepare for the worse case scenario. 9 Axes vs 4 archers was a plan on the upper part of my nerve.
Yes, sorry, you are right. It does not make a difference.
pomthom, the Woodsman III Axe needs to move to the Rice 1NW of Dye Hard. Attach the GG there, promote to Mobility/Combat I/Medic 1, move 2S3W and upgrade to a Maceman (= T129).
Did you wipe out this stack:Even in the best case, Combat HA does not guarantee the success, that's why I suggested at least 1 Cui with some flanking HAs. If we want the city, we'd better prepare for the worse case scenario. 9 Axes vs 4 archers was a plan on the upper part of my nerve.
Spoiler :
----
With hindsight, 9 Axemen vs. 4 Archers was totally safe and nothing whatsoever could have gone wrong.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13171190&postcount=1363Did you wipe out this stack:
Spoiler :
----
I thought that this stack was for the barbarian city when I saw it the 1st time. It turns out they were escorting a settler, which settled the Iron site. That's why I specially warned pomthom about the safety of the worker.
With hindsight, 9 Axemen vs. 4 Archers was totally safe and nothing whatsoever could have gone wrong.
pomthom's luck is unpredictable for me.
If he gets some luck like thisYou battle luck this time was below normal. 1 cat + 3 HAs + 1 CIII Cui lost to a single CGIII LB without a scratch.
Spoiler :
of worst luck I have ever seen.
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
Will add the Crab city settling to the PPP tonight. Hopefully we can wrap up until KK DoW.
Will look into the barb/Toku city thing
Will look into the barb/Toku city thing
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
.....
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
Preparing PPP updates and will be able to play in ~1hour
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
Updates:
- Slider to 50% brings just under the BPT we need to finish PP in 1 turn, but hiring a scientist in Case Depart is enough to complete it (this was also suggested by Duckweed to increase probability of GS)
- I'm fine with upgrading HAs although I'm not sure they're really necessary, I guess we can decide on T130?
- Send the 2 Workers 2W of DH and the 2 Workers 2S of Const to work towards future Crab city
- Settler for Crab will come out of CC on T130
- 4 Workers to AA to chop + road to Toledo
- Move WIII Axe to Rice 1NW of DH to attach GG. Promote to Morale / Combat I / Medic. Then Move on Dye tile where Cuirs will heal
- I agree with the opportunistic potential of getting the Toku barb city now but it really feels like a distraction here, I can't find a way to make it work well with the rest of the plan. But yeah the 3 Flanking HAs in Lali + the Cuir 2E of Lali can attack T129
- I'm fine with upgrading HAs although I'm not sure they're really necessary, I guess we can decide on T130?
- Send the 2 Workers 2W of DH and the 2 Workers 2S of Const to work towards future Crab city
- Settler for Crab will come out of CC on T130
- 4 Workers to AA to chop + road to Toledo
- Move WIII Axe to Rice 1NW of DH to attach GG. Promote to Morale / Combat I / Medic. Then Move on Dye tile where Cuirs will heal
- I agree with the opportunistic potential of getting the Toku barb city now but it really feels like a distraction here, I can't find a way to make it work well with the rest of the plan. But yeah the 3 Flanking HAs in Lali + the Cuir 2E of Lali can attack T129
The changes sound good.
The Taj is still on track?
Some upgrades could be useful, but they can wait until T129/130 as you say. The only bad upgrades are the Medic I (will receive a GG, ultimately) and the Visibility HArcher (bit pointless, really).
The Crab city is important, but we can think about the micro later. T130 sounds ok to me. An escort would be useful (perhaps a Cuirassier from Rice Pudding). We can determine the exact Worker micro later (an earlier WB means earlier growth, Galleys, further WBs, etc.).
Green light and good luck from me.
- Dye Hard should change the Dye ---> Grass Hill.
- Adulis should work the Horse.
The Taj is still on track?
Some upgrades could be useful, but they can wait until T129/130 as you say. The only bad upgrades are the Medic I (will receive a GG, ultimately) and the Visibility HArcher (bit pointless, really).
The Crab city is important, but we can think about the micro later. T130 sounds ok to me. An escort would be useful (perhaps a Cuirassier from Rice Pudding). We can determine the exact Worker micro later (an earlier WB means earlier growth, Galleys, further WBs, etc.).
Green light and good luck from me.
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
Thanks!The changes sound good.
You know where and how the injured Cuirassiers are going to heal, right?
- Dye Hard should change the Dye ---> Grass Hill.
- Adulis should work the Horse.
2N1E of Aksum
The Taj is still on track?
Will OF the 3pop whip in it next turn, the 2 remaining forests should be chopped within 4/5 turns
Some upgrades could be useful, but they can wait until T129/130 as you say. The only bad upgrades are the Medic I (will receive a GG, ultimately) and the Visibility HArcher (bit pointless, really).
The Crab city is important, but we can think about the micro later. T130 sounds ok to me. An escort would be useful (perhaps a Cuirassier from Rice Pudding). We can determine the exact Worker micro later (an earlier WB means earlier growth, Galleys, further WBs, etc.).
Green light and good luck from me.
EDIT still don't know wether to attack Toku Barb city or not. I'm uneasy because we don't know what's waiting for us
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
If we do go for the Toku Barb city, we can add the healthy Cuir 1E of Yeha or use it instead of the other that is in a better spot to go North
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
OK I'll try the barb city with 3*Flanking HAs + 2*Cuirs. I prefer adding a Cuir for safety, because if we go there and can't take the city it will be a total waste.
We have plenty of Cuirs for the KK front, and can upgrade other HAs
If someone wants to oppose the siege of the Toku barb city, speak now or forever hold your peace
We have plenty of Cuirs for the KK front, and can upgrade other HAs
If someone wants to oppose the siege of the Toku barb city, speak now or forever hold your peace
