SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid

[Doshin]

If we want to change research path, we would need to skip the final Golden Age.

Banking ----> Chemistry (bulb) ----> RP ----> Steam Power (lib'd) ----> Economics ----> Corporation​

We could start rush buying Executives in the frozen north (450 per cold Exec without a Forge) in 6 turns:

2–3 GMerchants = 3000–4500G
1 GArtist = culture bomb
1 GScientist = bulb Chemistry​

Given the way we have set-up and planned to date, it is probably slower for us. The location of Coal would also be a gamble.

 

[Duckweed]

It takes 6+ turns to capture the city and 3+ turns for a captured city to come out of revolt. Too late to change the plan.

Let's stick to Sushi and see if we could optimize the teching and spreading a bit.

Moreover, we can't neglect the war progress. We could start the war against Alex on T147, probably take ~8 turns to be ready to DOW Nappy, which is going to take ~10 turns. Therefore, RP, capital and some front cities should continue on reinforcements.

 

[Doshin]

^^^^ culture bombs cause a city to stop revolting.

I'm happy to stick with Sushi, since that was the way we set things up originally, unless soundjata/kossin (who are working on spreading logistics) think this would be better.

 

[kossin]

We played like asses, what did you expect?

Maybe Aluminium takes fewer turns to research but the spreading would be a lot more difficult:
-the city has fewer than 11 tiles available to work, so it can probably only whip 1 Exec and possibly not even size 10 so an extra turn before the first exec is made (+1t) (may be circumvented with cash rushing but just for so long as cash will run out fast)
-this exec now has a 3T trek to a useful city (BS) (+3t)

So 3T before Sushi is founded we'd have Aluminium in a so-so city. The spreading would likely take 1~2T more than from Toledo/Aksum/other large city... one added benefit of Sushi being that we'll get extra food for whipping (from Sushi AND Biology) and culture for fogbusting.

And as already pointed out by Doshin, we have no clue about the Coal placement. For all we know, there could be resources scattered all over the place.

All in all, it's probably 1T or maybe 2T faster than Sushi if we had gunned for it 20T ago. Suboptimal but not that horrible.

 

[Doshin]

@kossin/soundjata: I mentioned a long time ago that we don't need a Whale City, if we sacrifice a Workboat to move the Ironclad 1W. I don't know whether that will help with increasing spread efficiency. Rushing to capture the barb city seems less of a priority now.

----

Sushi costs:

Spoiler :

Aluminium Co can't have the HQ, otherwise we'd have seen this:

Spoiler :

 

[kossin]

FYI, we can't see this city with our present map:

Spoiler :

The most recent save has more culture in this area.

Attached my spreading plan.
Takes 12 turns after Sushi. 35 cities infected. (all but Nuremberg, Augsburg and Vienna, they can be given back to HC a couple of turns before the end of the game)

Check it out. If no objection, I'll try and push the game tomorrow.

Concerning the number of turns until Sushi, do we gun for 152 or not? Is there a risk going all in science at this stage?

20 turns to go.

I'd raze all HC cities and keep the Spanish ones for research and to spread towards Mainz/Samsun/SW Arabian city.
Keep HC alive but confined so that we may use his culture for razing mechanics.

In this case Aksum would probably be a better center and we should FARM it extensively so that it can re-grow fast.

Remember: Biology farms >>>>>>>>>>> cottages. I still don't understand why we're making cottages at this stage. Such a waste of workforce.

 

[kossin]

@kossin/soundjata: I mentioned a long time ago that we don't need a Whale City, if we sacrifice a Workboat to move the Ironclad 1W. I don't know whether that will help with increasing spread efficiency. Rushing to capture the barb city seems less of a priority now.

----

Sushi costs:

Spoiler :

Aluminium Co can't have the HQ, otherwise we'd have seen this:

Spoiler :

HQ doesn't show in barbarian cities.

Yea the Whale is useless. We can pop the borders in 2T and that will draw the Ironclad, so WB is not an issue.

 

[Folket]

As for spreading we could get US in the last GA and buy executives. That might allow us to spread from smaller cities and thereby save turns.

 

[Doshin]

Comments on the current turn and next: Duckweed (general), Duckweed (war with Alex), Doshin (healing), kossin (research), kossin (keep Spanish cities).

GP plan:

On an unrelated note: run 4 Scientists in Case Depart this turn. They are needed for the last GP, after Constantinople.

Will it be best to stop working tiles here, rather than Villages or the Marble/Copper?

----

I would prefer to run Scientists now in Constantinople, since it has a Library + University, and beakers are needed.

Try to increase our per turn, but without building Research. If a city is about to grow (e.g. Golden Sands) don't sacrifice food.

Bring the two Workers that chopped Forests for the Crab city to Bacon Sandwich, and begin farming the Plains tiles (one is partway done).

Don't improve the Fort 1S of the Ironclad until we know whether we need a city in this area.

 

[Doshin]

The most recent save has more culture in this area.

Spoiler :

I'm not sure what you mean by more culture? It looks the same to me, and that is only because our map is out of date.

Napoleon recaptured Kayseri.

HQ doesn't show in barbarian cities.

Yea the Whale is useless. We can pop the borders in 2T and that will draw the Ironclad, so WB is not an issue.

Will the Ironclad stay in our culture? Or, after it has gone 1W, will it then move back 1E?

 

[kossin]

Nevermind.

You're right, there's no city there. We'll need add a settler and chop the wb.

Ironclad: that was tested by pomthom iIrc, not sure what will be the behaviour afterwards.

 

[Duckweed]

Will the Ironclad stay in our culture? Or, after it has gone 1W, will it then move back 1E?

It will keep bombarding the culture, did not test what happened after all culture is gone.

Don't improve the Fort 1S of the Ironclad until we know whether we need a city in this area.

Not sure which whale city did you refer, a city in this area is necessary since the galley from Crib cannot use forts outside our culture.

 

[Doshin]

^^^^ yes, you're right about culture and Forts. No change to the plan.

With Chichen Itza, we'll have a few more turns to distract the Ironclad.

 

[Duckweed]

We could queue a wall in the city to keep the ironclad busy for a while.

 

[soundjata]

I suppose we wait for the galley to be ready before we settle IronClad city?

(slowly playing the turn 144 by the way. Will update this post with questions until someone comes)

Suggested trade: Paper <> 160 gold & Music <> 50 gold ?

Spoiler :

Napoleon SOD:

Spoiler :

Behind are 3 ha and 4 catapults.​

Alex SOD:

Spoiler :

Working hard for the lurkers obviously ​

 

[Doshin]

I suppose we wait for the galley to be ready before we settle IronClad city?

Wait for Galley.

(slowly playing the turn 144 by the way. Will update this post with questions until someone comes)

Suggested trade: Paper <> 160 gold & Music <> 50 gold ?

Spoiler :

Yes to both.

.....

 

[kossin]

Nice, hopefully those 2 SoDs meet each other.

We have to prepare the city razings this turn.

I can prepare a research plan ... depends what GPs we get however.

 

[Duckweed]

I think we could settle the ironclad city immediately, we lose some cash, but increase some beakers and can start to invest some hammers to the wall, which could be done with 1 chop shortly.

 

[kossin]

Bulbs: 1xGS (Chem. or Sci. Method) 1xGM (Corporation)

Turn	bpt
144	1300
145	1500
146	1500
147	1550
148	1550
149	1550
150	1550
151	1700 >> Can be distributed before
152	Finish

Bulbs: 2xGS (Chem and Sci. Method)

Turn	bpt
144	1400
145	1600
146	1600
147	1700
148	1720
149	1720
150	1720
151	Finish

or

Turn	bpt
144	1300
145	1400
146	1400
147	1400
148	1450
149	1500
150	1500
151	1500
152	Finish

Bulbs: 1xGS (Chemistry or Sci. Method)

Turn	bpt
144	1500
145	1700
146	1700
147	1750
148	1750
149	1750
150	1750
151	1800
152	Finish

No bulbs

Turn	bpt
144	1500
145	1750
146	1750
147	1800
148	1800
149	1800
150	1800
151	1850
152	1885
153	Finish

In summary, try to get as much as possible for the next 2 turns.

 

[Doshin]

I think we could settle the ironclad city immediately, we lose some cash, but increase some beakers and can start to invest some hammers to the wall, which could be done with 1 chop shortly.

The beakers argument is fine, but the city is commerce negative overall, and if we settle now the Ironclad will start bombarding the 45% defense offered by 10 + Chichen Itza.