SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

[elitetroops]

That is not nearly the same as my save.

ET yyeah
Rome 12/32 3/32
Rome 14/90 0/90
Antium 13/24 16/24
Antium 17/30 8/40
gold 36 46

You are 10 gold ahead, but behind in almost everything else.

Look at the cottages to see the difference. I have worked one cottage in Rome 10 turns and no other cottages at all. You have worked a lot of extra cottages.

Fish works mine until first WB, then fish until pop 2, then fish+mine. Rome works tiles as explained in last post. To summarize: Do not work cottages at all in Fish. Never work 2 cottages in Rome. And work forest until settler is finished.

You should build 2 cottages for fish after completing this one, like I did. Those are both needed later for math in time.

Can you try again following this micro and see where you end up.

I kept slider 3 turns at 0%, then again one turn at 0% T61 (had to switch to maths for this turn or I would have finished BW even with slider at 0%).

 

[yyeah]

Give me few hours.

 

[yyeah]

Allright.
Becouse i didnt agree with you that iam actually behind on everything i did somekind of play.

Iam not saying it is better or something , didnt want to just copy you ( becouse we know this) so i played something diferent.

Here's save at 900BC

I will play this what you did in a bit and upload save.

 

[elitetroops]

Hmm, that's an interesting totally different approach. Very early maths!

This is the point where it gets hard to compare. You are ahead in tech by mysticism+5. That's 79. Impressive!

Rome is -5 +7 compared to mine, roughly equal. But you chopped one more forest, so technically 23 behind as well.

Fish is -8 -21 compared to my game. (2nd workboat not out yet)

Stone is the same, except that you got to start monument 2 turns early, which eventually will give it an 8 advantage with 2 turns earlier fish. I like this!

So to summarize, you are +79 and -13 -44 -12. Taking into account the research modifiers we get for myst and archery, that +79 actually means about +60. Based on those numbers I'd prefer my version, but then we have to take into account also the earlier monument in stone, and the fact that your cottages now are more mature and teching will be faster from this point on as well... Tough choice.

Question: Would it be possible to do something similar, but finish mysticism before math to get monument started even earlier? Possibly even working the 2h tile for a while to get it up even faster?

Edit: btw. I said almost everything else

 

[yyeah]

I think it is, but easiest way is to choop 1 more forest. Why i assuming it it just becosue you know nothing goes in ether if we want more we need to sacrefice
( or get it in other way)

That mistycyzm was preety cool becouse i could start monument right after LH was rdy.
You right its hard to compere for my like game sense i allso more like your atempt.
But allso 2 turn + of is preeety much at this point of game.
What makees diference for me, and it cant be just compered like that, >,=,< is this workboat, 1 more workboat meens that we can find ai faster and have witch will change diference in between this 2 games and give us additional info.

 

[yyeah]

I have an idea will check it in an hour, what iam think of is that we can paly my part of game like you did and your part like i did and maybe we can get what we want , And have mistycyzm and math. If we can trade this 1 for mistcyzm it will be worth it.

 

[elitetroops]

Yes, lets hear from others still what they think also. I'm not the best to judge how much 79 is worth at this point of the game...

One thing is that with Fish way behind in food and hammers, it will be later to library and scientists, losing 12/turn, if we do scientists there. On the other hand, stone would be faster to library and scientists.

When I do mids 900BC with 2 chops, I work mines as much as possible in capital, so only one cottage (after settler is built) until pop 6 T62, then only pigs and mines from then until mids. T62 I switch to pigs+4 mines, dumping cottage, T63 revolt to slavery, T64 3 pop whip library, then pigs and mines all the way. The turn mids finish I switch one mine for cottage to grow to pop 6 and finish mids exactly on the hammer. If you work any less mines than that, you cannot do 900BC mids with 2 chops.

 

[elitetroops]

One thing we didn't consider at all is failgold. Would probably delay mids one turn, but if we can put even one chop into mids in Fish, that's 60 gold, or 10 turns worth of teching at 100% (saves about 2-3 turns of banking gold). We could even add granary whip overflow (I get enough to 1 turn workboat) to make it 120 gold, but delay 2nd exploring workboat. Worth it?

Edit: Found a way to improve results in my version by 1 in capital and 3, requires some small changes before stone is settled. Maybe I should write some kind of spreadsheet for the micro, getting complicated to remember all.

The improvement requires that worker builds second cottage for capital immediately after this one, then goes on to build 2 cottages for fish. Once granary is finished, switch one mine to 2nd cottage for one turn, then back to mine next turn. The extra food from cottage will count double, as it is also stored in granary, which allows us to grow to pop 4 one turn earlier after the 3 pop whip. Growing earlier gives us back the one turn of working mine we lost so hammers end up the same, but we gain food and commerce from cottage.

 

[yyeah]

Yes it is worth it to choop in to mids for fail gold becosue its multiplied by stone but i more like to have exploring workboat but this is good idea we can think about it.

Yeas i know that you bulid mids to every hammer but that is what iam saying about maybe use 3 choops and math and mistycyzm faster...

 

[yyeah]

Are you growing to in Rome ? after this 3 pop whip ?
Anyway lets play your version enough of testing i think we good.
Btw we can get mistycyzmin in time with 3 choops.

Ok i play last test so you can see does it match with your paly will post save at turn 62.

 

[elitetroops]

There's one turn of in Rome when growing to pop 5.

With the improved version I posted above, there would be 2 turns, but it's worth it to use avoid growth the first turn and only grow the next for one turn of . Don't exactly understand the mechanics here, but avoiding growth earns a couple of food.

 

[yyeah]

Can you try not to grow to ? at all and work 2f1h tile or best if 2 cotages ? and bulid mids with 2 choops ?.
i meen grow after ends.
Another 1 how many turns you are working on lib ?
I was working 1 ore turn and working 2 cotages instand of mines but didnt manage to bulid ids then with 2 choops.

Is this ok ? i had 1 more turn at 0% but it doesnt rly matter i think you will consume this gold anyway while reserching math.
I was following orders i belive

 

[elitetroops]

Yes, all the micro correct!

Your slider management with one turn extra at 0% was also better than mine. I played from your save to mids, had to pick different time to run slider at 0%, but overall the results where better by a couple of food+hammers in fish and a few beakers.

One tiny detail, you can save a worker turn if you first put one turn into eastern fish cottage, then stop, next turn move west and build cottage there, then finish eastern cottage. From eastern cottage worker can reach forest to chop in 1 turn, from western cottage you lose a turn moving.

Anyway, I'm satisfied with testing now and you know what to do! Most likely we will run into a barb archer next turn and all our plans must be revised.

Still time to think about what happens between settling stone and completing mids. But regarding growing into unhappiness, I tested lots of options and found the best was to grow into one turn of unhappiness.

 

[Gumbolt]

Wow you have all been busy. Not had a chance to look at the saves.

I like the idea about fail gold. That vs trade routes and finding where the other Ai are? If we leave the workboats too late we will face barb galleys around T90-T100. So best get them out sooner than later.

Hammers vs science. Not sure which is worth more. The difference of 1 turn on mids may not be important. Getting building and infrastructure up could be.

Overall the main thing we lack at present is how to find the Ai and what techs we need for victory. There is no point in doing heavy micro to mids as if we meet a barb archer this all goes out the window. A generalised strategy should be fine.

I can't really improve on the micro at this stage as I don't fully know every move you have made.

Hoping Justjohn will join our team at some point. He needs to post in sign up first.

Do Elite or Yyeah have an opinion on whose method is best? I would suggest there is little in it really. Will need to view the saves later.

Edit - Unhappiness is not a bad thing as we know we will have rep/HR soon enough.

 

[elitetroops]

I think we both agreed on my approach that emphasizes growth and hammers over beakers. In the long run I think that will prove stronger.

I'll be away for an hour or so, but green from me to play until barb archers show their ugly faces... Are you green Gumbolt?

 

[yyeah]

I got something like this allso, mistycyzm in time when LH is finished in stoone spot but we miss 10 hamers in to mids for 900 BC ;/
I dont know is it possible to have mistycyzm in time and mids at 900 BC with 2 chops.

Anyway i think i play some turns in real game ? since we have agreement.
Well at lest we are +1food and some beakers ahead

I will cry if i see barb archer there

 

[Gumbolt]

I trust your's and Yyeah's judgement. I think hammers is always better. We need to play out some turns to see if an archer is about. So green from me.

Between the 2 of you i think you should complete mids. Once Stone city is safe plans can be formalised. Look out for Ai archers and workboats!!

Can we explore the final fog near deer or is there no spare warrior movement time for this??

I think play on.

 

[yyeah]

Wait should i dl save or can i continiue from save stored on my pc ?
Does it matter ?

 

[shulec]

Wait should i dl save or can i continiue from save stored on my pc ?
Does it matter ?

Always start you turns from the uploaded save

Go for it.

 

[yyeah]

There he is iam thinking should i switch this warrior after fight...
Zara found city.

Spoiler :