[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[WastinTime]

I'll do some code diving

Oh, surprise, surprise. How simple.

tl;dr
If he only has 3 Tao cities or 5 total cities, we can bribe him with 2 confu
Otherwise it takes 3+ confu cities. I'm pretty sure we would need 3 confu or more.
I'm surprised it has nothing to do with population.
Anyone want to do a test game to confirm?

Formula:
N = nPeterCities / 2 (round down). Let's say it'd be half of 6. N = 3

N2 = nPetersTaoCities - 1. Let's assume he will have 4 Tao cities, so N2 = 3 also

AI will refuse due to DENIAL_MINORITY_RELIGION if:
#ConfuCities < min(N, N2)

        if (getHasReligionCount(eReligion) < std::min((getHasReligionCount(getStateReligion()) - 1), (getNumCities() / 2)))
        {
            return DENIAL_MINORITY_RELIGION;
        }

 

[WastinTime]

Hmm. I wonder how much Peter would want (cash) to switch religion. We're gonna run out of tech to give him.

So even if Peter has 7 Tao cities, we can bribe him with only 3 confu.
Aim for cities with no religion, size doesn't matter!

 

[WastinTime]

Question: I know if we spy flip religion, he will switch back in 5t.
But bribe? do we get 10 or 15 turns? IIRC, someone posted 15 earlier, but that might be only if he chose to switch on his own?

 

[WastinTime]

Ok, I guess I'd rather have 3 missionaries, than do the whole spy thing. Which means, I'd rather not spend EPs to see Peter's research since we don't have a good way to use those EPs.
We will have to use our deductive reasoning to figure out what he's researching.
If he chose MC after Alpha, we should see that arrive before we start research T111. So put little/no OF into MC after Edu and don't work any scientists T107-110.

If one of our missionaries fail, we have to do Kait's no religion thing (or send a 4th miss?)

In the MC example, we would research Feudal T111-T113, or plan to not get it in 3t and instead huge OF T114.
Point being: we need to bribe him to Confu T115 at the earliest. Only cus we desperately need MC to get machinery next.
Other scenarios we don't need confu so urgently.

 

[Mitchum]

size doesn't matter!

That's what she said!

 

[Mitchum]

Why would we research Feudalism? Can't we normally get that in trade too? Is there nothing better to put beakers into?

I think I've lost sight of our tech path. What is it after Education for the next 5 to 7 techs and which do we hope to get in trade?

 

[WastinTime]

Feudal is somewhat urgent on the way to Banking...

MC(free?), Machinery, Feudal(free?), Guilds, Banking
(free Aes, Philo)
Lit,Music?

But if Peter does MC, then we do Feudal and vice versa.
Most likely we do it all ourselves.

It's fast, something like...
T114 MC
117 Machinery
(free Feudal)
122 Guilds
125 Banking

or

115 Feudal
(free MC)
118 Mach
123 Guilds
126 Banking

otherwise 129 or 130 Banking (self researched)

 

[WastinTime]

Assume we get free Construction by the time we get Banking.

Then we do Gunpowder while hoping Peter does Compass, or Nationalism

He may also do Optics and Astronomy , but maybe now I'm getting greedy.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Hopefully not Paper, now tgat he has Philo. With his scientific bent,Paper-Educ could be a strong lean for him

 

[Mitchum]

If we're trying to research things that Peter is not and work together, I think a turn of full EP slider on Peter is worth it (assuming that doing this shows us what he's researching). If he goes Feudalism, we go MC and vice versa. Knowing what he's teching will help us a lot.

 

[WastinTime]

If we're trying to research things that Peter is not and work together, I think a turn of full EP slider on Peter is worth it (assuming that doing this shows us what he's researching). If he goes Feudalism, we go MC and vice versa. Knowing what he's teching will help us a lot.

yeah, maybe eventually. I don't know that we need to know rt now. And we can get +4 or +6 or more per turn in the mean time.

 

[WastinTime]

Hopefully not Paper, now tgat he has Philo. With his scientific bent,Paper-Educ could be a strong lean for him

For some reason the AI doesn't do Paper. I never checked the code for why. But if they have paper (and Philo), they can 'see' Liberalism 2 techs away.
If Peter demands Paper I'm not sure what we should do. Probably say no and figure out the diplo.

 

[LowtherCastle]

For some reason the AI doesn't do Paper. I never checked the code for why. But if they have paper (and Philo), they can 'see' Liberalism 2 techs away.
If Peter demands Paper I'm not sure what we should do. Probably say no and figure out the diplo.

Klarius once discussed it. Pretty sure Paper’s just got a low weight. The random factor for choosing techs is high, like 33% or something. Eventually the relative beaker price will make choosing Paper most likely.

But there is still a possibility of each AI choosing Paper. And then our Liberalism slingshot is obviously screwed. We absolutely don’t want to give Paper to anyone.

 

[Kaitzilla]

T105 (250BC) Real Game Screenshots!

Spoiler Empire :

Spoiler Extra :

As WastinTime noted, Moscow has about 263 in Temple of Artemis (350).

in AI City build = (Sabotage Production / City Revolt) * (650/6)
2240/923*(650/6) = 263

There is no aqueduct in Moscow, so it is not Hanging Gardens.
Peter started building it before Code of Laws, so it is not Chichen Itza.
It is too big now to be Maoi Statues.

ToA is interesting because it gives +1 free Priest specialist and +2 merchant gpp.
With philisophical trait, Peter will get 10gpp per turn from that wonder and will have a 2nd Great Person born 20 turns after the wonder completes at the latest.

We can also send a Great Merchant there and get 1300 from a trade mission and not 1100

Peter cannot whip the wonder complete because he is in Caste.

 

[WastinTime]

We can also send a Great Merchant there and get 1300

I knew ToA was gonna bring up more talk of a GM. When does it get up to 1700 or 1900? we have to be size 14? and his ToA city 14? or something like that.
Now that he's in caste, he should get big.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I want a spy built in 1t, this turn, in Whales

We have changed it to missionary in 1 turn in Whales, but a micro snafu means it will probably be 2 turns.

We were working the silver mine a lot to get education, and I did not recommend changing it to horse when we decided to try back-to-back missionary/spy

Spoiler :

 

[Kaitzilla]

Hot off the presses, the Evil Test Game T105.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I knew ToA was gonna bring up more talk of a GM. When does it get up to 1700 or 1900? we have to be size 14? and his ToA city 14? or something like that.
Now that he's in caste, he should get big.

Moscow’s now at 475%.

1700g
Sci-p12 + Mosc-p15
Sci-p13

1900g
Sci-p14 + Mosc-p15
Sci-p15

 

[MirrorGuard]

TOA! If only he could get a great prophet and bulb theology... Oh. He will probably build a shrine.

 

[Kaitzilla]

We have changed it to missionary in 1 turn in Whales, but a micro snafu means it will probably be 2 turns.

We were working the silver mine a lot to get education, and I did not recommend changing it to horse when we decided to try back-to-back missionary/spy

Spoiler :

Ah, there it is.
T105 - T106 Missionary
T107 - 3-pop Whip Library
T108 - Another Missionary
T109 - 2 Missionaries go 2W to get on Galley and sail west

We can send the 1st one now and then the real religion spread on its way T109.

These older screenshots show the way to Russia.

Spoiler :

Our 2 missionaries that move T109 can step off the Galley onto Deer 2E of St. Petersburg on T116.
Our 1st missionary that moves T105 can try to get to that remote city west of Moscow.

We can try to bribe Russia into Confu on T119 if we have 3 Confu spreads and he has 6 cities, or only 2 Confu spreads if he still has 5 cities.