[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

If we give Peter Nationalism for DoW he might go Nationhood and draft whatever, slowing down his research...

 

[Mitchum]

I was always a bit nervous about warring and trying to focus our cities on GPP at the same time. Had SB not picked Feudalism next, then maybe. But we'll be facing LBs no matter what so why risk our GPP plan now?

I'm also in favor of teching Optics next. We need to meet the other AI and figure out what's what.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Also, if we get Archery+HBR we can’t build chariots anymore, right? Only knights.

Knights + trebs would work Later if no WEs.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Does forting a forest chop the forest?

 

[LowtherCastle]

If we close borders with SB does that cancel our stone trade deal?

 

[WastinTime]

Also, if we get Archery+HBR we can’t build chariots anymore, right? Only knights.

Knights + trebs would work Later if no WEs.

We can build chariots + HAs
No knights (iron)

If we close borders with SB does that cancel our stone trade deal?

no, (and it's marble)

 

[MirrorGuard]

Does forting a forest chop the forest?

No. It won't. A forest fort provides 75% defensive bonus.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Overview
Continue spamming GPs, meet AIs, circumnavigate, trade techs for gold, DoW SB, pillage him back to the stone age

Research
T135 bulb PP(partial)
Optics-GP-PP-Const-Corp-(Eng)-Chem-SciMeth-Bio-Lib-Medicine

Diplomacy
DoW
About 170g pillaging 10g+ improvements (not farms, camps, plantations)

T142 DoW
Assume ivory galley has returned
Caravel returns from circum to block path at PP-2w1n
Clams Galley drops pillaging musket pair or musket/chariot


Civics
Nationhood loses money even outside GA, only useful for drafting

We will pay mil unit -1g for each unit drafted

Cities
Silver, wealth, when Dun?

Whales, wealth
T135(1t only)
Silver: 82.35b+5g-1f
Horse: 76.95b+7g+0f
Coast: 78.30b+2g+1f
Whales has enough food in all 3 cases

Cows
T135 (1t)
7 mer: 49.60b+30g-5f
3 furs: 59.20b+26g-4f

Notes
Cows, Silver, Whales each need to complete a wb T148 for T149 Sushi
Whales needs a wb for second whale tile for trade

PPP T135-T145

Civic Switch: T135 Nationhood

Research
T135 bulb printing press ( partial )
T135 gunpowder
T136 optics
T137 printing press
T138 Constitution
T139 Constitution
T140 Consultation
T141 Constitution
T142 Transportation
T143 cancel fish
T144 Constitution

Workers:

Heretic
T135 road
T136-8 chop
T139-41 road canal-2s2w
T142-4 wkshp Clam-1n2e

Phillip
T135-6 road
T137-9 road Clam-nw
T140-4 wkshp cow-1n

Joan Dark
T135-8 chop clam-3n
T139-43 wkshp clam-2n
T144 wkshp clam-2n1e

Shepherd
T135 wkshp cow-1n STOP
T136-44 fort cow-3w1n

Rex
T135-7 Wkshp 2N of cows
T139-43 wkshp STOP
T144 wkshp cow-e STOP

Cowboy
T135-8 build silver mine
T139-42 road silver-1s
T143-4 ???


Cities
check food surplus and great person point every turn for each city.

science
turn avoid growth OFF
T135 chariot, 8 sci 11/38-8f 254gp 0+7
T136 Chariot, 3 sci 3/38+2f 380gp 7+9
T137 Chariot, 3 sci 5/38+2f 425gp 16+9
T138 Chariot, 3 sci 7/38+2f 470gp 25+9
T139 wealth , 3 sci 9/38+2f 515gp
T140 Wealth , 3 sci 11/38+2f 560gp
T141 Wealth , 6 sci 13/38-4f 605gp,
T142 wealth, 6 sci 9/38-4f 704gp
T143 wealth, 6 sci 5/38-4f 803gp, work gems or horse instead of farm
T144 wealth, 1 sci, 0/38+3f 2gp

Spoiler :

cows
build wealth and run *Merchants
T127 wealth 0 28/38f+6 60gp
T128 wealth 3 34/38f+3 62gp
T129 wealth 7 37/38f-5 95gp
T130 wealth 7 32/38f-5 175gp
T131 wealth 7 27/38f-5 255gp
T132 wealth 7 22/38f-5 335gp
T133 wealth 7 17/38f-5 415gp
T134 wealth 7 12/38f-5 495gp

canal
T127 wealth 1 sci 36/44f+7 155gp
T128 culture 6 artists 43/44f-1 160gp
T129 wealth 10 sci 42-9f 220gp(GP 200)
T130 wealth 10 sci 33-7f 132gp
T131 wealth 10 sci 26-7f 244gp
T132 wealth 10 sci 19-7f 356gp
T133 wealth 10 sci 12-7f 468gp
T134 wealth 9 sci 5-5f 580gp(GP 500)
...

silver
T127 wb 2 sci 28/44f+5 14gp
T128 wb 9 sci 33/44f-5 20gp
T129 wb 10 sci 28-9f 101gp
T130 wb 10 sci 19-7f 206gp
T131 wb 9 sci 12-3f 311gp(GP 300)
T132 wb 9 sci 9-3f 105gp
T133 wb 9 sci 6-3f 199gp
T134 wb 9 sci 3-3f 293gp

profit city
starting building wb when Peter starts teching optics
T127 wealth 0 specialist 26/34f+6 100gp
T128 wealth 1 mer 32/34f+6 103gp
T129 wealth 7 mer 21/36f-6 121gp
T130 wealth 7 mer 15/36f-6 205gp
T131 wealth 7 mer 9/36f-6 289gp
T132 wealth 5 mer 3/36f-2 373gp
T133 wealth 3 mer 1/36f+2 436gp
T134 wealth 5 mer 3/36f-2 478gp


whales city
T127 the Parthenon work coast*2 horse silver to grow 34/38
T128 the Parthenon 4 sci work on coast+horse+silver+fur+3*seafood 19/40
T129 wealth 8 sci 18/40f-4 36gp
T130 wealth 8 sci 14/40f-3 127gp
T131 wealth 8 sci 11/40f-3 218gp
T132 wealth 8 sci 8/40f-3 309gp
T133 wealth 8 sci 5/40f-3 400gp
T134 wealth 6 sci 2/40f+1 491gp

clams
build wealth
T127 1 sci 19/40f+5 24gp
T128 6 sci 24/40f-2 27gp
T129 6 sci 22/40f-2 81gp
T130 6 sci 20/40f-2 144gp
T131 6 sci 18/40f-2 207gp
T132 6 sci 16/40f-2 270gp
T133 6 sci 14/40f-2 333gp
T134 8 sci 12/40f-6 396gp

Units
missionary 8
T127 board galley 1
T128 spread Confu to Vlad
*Only if no Tao in Vlad. Otherwise stay onboard and go back. Spread to Iron Island

Galley 2(near Peter)
T127~T128 get missionary to Vlad
*T129~ return to 2W of whales for G.merchant pickup.

**Galley 1 (near Whale City)
T127 - T131 Sail to 3S3E of Silver City and wait
T133 - Load Great Merchant from Galley 2 and take it to 1S1E of Silver City
T134 - Sail into Silver City and drop off Great Merchant, then sail to 1S1E of Silver City
T135 - T139 Sail to 3S of Cow City

**Galley 3 (south of Cow City)
T127 - T131 Sail to 4W3N of Cow City and wait
T133 - Pick up Great Merchant and sail 2N2W. Unload Great Merchant into Galley 2
T134 - Sail back to 4W3N of Cow City
T135 - T137 Sail to 3S of Cow City and pick up Great Person for 2nd Golden Age
T138 - T139 Sail to 1N1E of Profit City and pick up 2nd Great Person for 2nd Golden Age
T140 - Trigger 2nd Golden Age with both great people, then take Muskets from Profit and sail for Sitting Bull.

**Great Merchant (born in Science City on T131 from teching Economics)
T131 - Move to 1E of Cow City
T132 - Move to 3N2W of Cow City
T133 - Move into Galley 3 4W3N of Cow City, sail 2NW, unload into Galley 1, sail 2NW
T134 - Sail into Silver City and move to 1S1E of Whales
T135 - Move into Galley 2 2W of Whale City and sail to Vlad

200GPP (born in Canal City)
T129 - T135 Move to deer tile 2S1E of Cow City

300GPP (Great Scientist born in Silver City)
T131 - March for Sitting Bull's land to spy. Eventually it will bulb something.

400GPP (98% Great Scientist born in Science City)
T133 - If Great Artist, move to deer tile. If Great Scientist, head for Sitting Bull's land to spy.

500GPP (94% Great Scientist born in Canal City)
T134 - If Great Spy, move to deer tile. If Great Scientist, head for Sitting Bull's land to spy.

Trireme 1
move towards canal city for naval defense

Trireme 2
*go along with Trireme 1



Diplomacy
T127 banking to Peter for *compass+35g+slavery+org
*on the same turn sell Literature for all of Peter's gold
*T127 renegotiate fur deal to SB for 2gpt

Don't renegotiate Rice with Peter.
If he asks us to cancel deals with SB, discuss with the team.
Give in to any Peter demand except:
Gold demand will be discussed with team
Everything else is a probably Yes including Paper or our map(e.g. if Tao spread and he demanded switch we'd DENY that)


Every turn
Check if Confu/Tao spread somewhere
Check for fist
pause and Save at the end of each turn
EP spending on Peter just enough to keep eyes on research
*watch that SB doesn't have a galley north of Canal. We need to know if we need to defend that direction.
*check the number of hammers in what Moscow is building(harbor)



Stopping point
Peter or Sitting Bull demands , pause and discuss with team the amount
*
Peter switches back to Taoism
Something unexpected happens
begin T135

16% complete

 

[WastinTime]

optics will take 2t. Plan for circumnav bonus to start T141.

 

[WastinTime]

Cows, Silver, Whales each need to complete a wb T148 for T149 Sushi

right, but remember it's only 1-2 seafood. If we need cash just to get sushi researched, it's OK if we're missing a couple clams at the start.

 

[WastinTime]

Clams Galley

I don't see the need to rush this DoW since we're not doing it soon enough (now) and halting Feudalism/longbows.
The galley we have is only about 2-3 turns behind the one you suggest we build, so let's skip this build.

 

[WastinTime]

chariot seems like another thing we can't afford rt now.

 

[LowtherCastle]

The DoW idea was for discussion purposes. Just taking a detailed look.

 

[Mitchum]

WT suggested to hold off on the DOW. I seconded. Does anyone on the team feel that we should DoW in the next 10ish turns?

I think we should tech Optics, circumnavigate, meet the AIs and farm our great people before we consider a DoW.

LC, I think you should plan to play through the full GP plan (i.e. all the way until the final turn of the 2nd Golden Age). Would that be ~15 turns? That seems like a good stopping point to decide what civics we want post Golden Age and who, when and how our DoW should occur.

 

[WastinTime]

all the way until the final turn of the 2nd Golden Age). Would that be ~15 turns?

it's just 12 turns, but we should plan to pause half way or so and plan for upcoming slavery. Probably the usual 10t is plenty so we are not planning whips on the turn we take slavery.

 

[Mitchum]

Are we researching Gunpowder -> Optics or Optics -> Gunpowder? I see it listed both ways in the PPP. I vote for the latter if we all agree that we're not going to DoW in the next several turns.

 

[WastinTime]

I vote for the latter if we all agree that we're not going to DoW in the next several turns.

I think it boils down to this:

1) Stay in Bureau for now, do Nationhood next Golden age = research Optics next.
Pro: Bureau means faster tech, more build wealth in Science

2) Start drafting T136 = GunP first, then optics
Pro: We can draft more units. Probably 3 in cities like Profit, Cows: 136, 146, 147. With shorter Nationhood, we'd have +9 anger if we try to get 3 units in one city.
If we don't want to draft more than 2 per city and we don't care if the first units come out 141 instead of 136, then option 1 : more Bureau is better.

Recall that 3 muskets is either
a) 3 pop + 9 anger
b) 8 pop + 3 anger

I'm not worried about the temporary +6 anger for 9t. Every city will have a lot to whip T147, so population will be low.
So I'm a fan of getting as many cheap muskets as possible. Even if we don't choose to win by conquest, we should be able to get a nice income stream from fighting with someone the rest of the game.
With 155-ish Astronomy, we'd like to move on from SB soon. Or maybe with a GS T149 we can manage Astronomy closer to 152-ish and we could just go straight to the longbow-challenged new world and save SB for later.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Bear in mind, during these 5t of non-GA, Nationhood is close to Bureau, because we’re sacrilegiously working 4 pathetic plains farms instead of 2 gems and river horse. Even +2.5t of GA continues that abomination. So if there ever was a time for Nationhood, it’s now.

Btw, Cow can draft T135...

 

[Kaitzilla]

Are we researching Gunpowder -> Optics or Optics -> Gunpowder? I see it listed both ways in the PPP. I vote for the latter if we all agree that we're not going to DoW in the next several turns.

I think it should be Gunpowder -> Optics.

Optics -> Gunpowder takes 3 turns instead of 2.

Btw, Cow can draft T135...

Sure, a Warrior

Hmm, SB war.

I think we should consider finishing the workboat in Silver City.
An extra whale might speed up Peter with +1 .

The final 3 workboats to get sushi resources online around Cow City and Silver City can wait.
It is only like +1 food for 1 city at the start of the spreading.


Chop Galley for SB war? hmmmm

We will have 4 Muskets and a 2 Chariots coming I think?
2 from profit city, 1 from cow city, and 1 from clam city.
We could probably use a 3rd galley.

How about we yank on Sitting Bull's chain and try to get 3 turns of Anarchy out of him?
We get Archer + HBR + Gold + Caste for Civil Service. (Before we meet the 4 new AI)
The 1 turn of Anarchy and civic change should reset his civic change timer to 10 turns if it is low.
So he won't change to Civil Service by himself.

Then on T140, we sell him Nationalism for gold.
Trade him Literature to adopt Nationhood.
1 turn of Anarchy again.

Then on T145, we trade him another tech to adopt Bureacracy.
1 turn of Anarchy again.

Combined with cutting off SB's Silver, and our galleys getting a speed boost on T141, we might be able to attack SB's northern city with overwhelming force amphibiously before Longbows.
This would cause any galleys in the city to be destroyed as well, solving our navy issue.

The loss of his northern city really cripples Sitting Bull.
He can only make navy on his west side instead of both sides vastly simplifying our defense.


Heck, our capital could make a spy 1st instead of a chariot, and our chopped galley could get it over there before the trailing 2 galleys arrive.
Then we revolt the city with 0% defenses and smash it from the sea with 4 Muskets and 1 Chariot.
Hopefully the Chariot can clean up any Dog Soldiers.


If we don't make it before the Longbow upgrade, the war is called off at the last minute.

 

[WastinTime]

Btw, Cow can draft T135...

Draft what? a warrior?

Optics -> Gunpowder takes 3 turns instead of 2.

With the end of the GAge, there is no way we can get Optics in 1 turn with OF from GunPowder, so it's 3 turns total either way.