[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

Be sure to pick up Engineering before doing any unit moves. Our GS should meet France a turn sooner that way.

Are there any open items to discuss for the next few turns?

Right, Engineering first

We need to calculate if we can get Sushi by T154.
It will affect a lot of micro decisions.

We also need to decide if bribing Peter to DoW is really a good idea or not.
1 immediate benefit is that we can DoW SB unlimited times.
It might slow Peter's teching.
It is also -2 more Diplo with SB in case we want to cease fire until Astro to indulge in trade routes.

I favor bringing Peter in and keeping the war going.

**Edit**
I'll try to have the beaker overflow numbers up in 90 minutes.

 

[WastinTime]

Smolensk has Tao (I'm curious when that happened). Peter may switch, but we should be able to maintain Friendly which is another reason I want him in the war.
We have to give PPress + Optics for War, Eng, and 30 Gold.
That gives him a chance to pick Astronomy

 

[WastinTime]

Peter Plan
He may not want to grow up, but we will make him!

We sell him Printing Press, Optics, Astronomy?, Education, Liberalism, SciMethod.
Along with Drama, and Mil.Trad, this allows him to choose RepParts or, I believe more likely, Communism.

It'd be nice to keep Peter away from Chemistry. He'd have to choose GunPowder first.
Or, if he goes for Gunpowder + Chem, we could try to withhold Astronomy, but one of those two paths leads to SciMethod->Communism.

Liberalism also probably means FreeReligion, and we don't have to worry about Tao.
Communism/StateProp) also keeps him out of Mercantilism.

 

[WastinTime]

If Pete does get us RepParts, he will probably beeline GunPowder and Rifling. Oh no, he has rifles, but guess what? then so do we .
We have to draw the line with Steel, Steam Power gifts because if he gets Railroad, we are gonna be hatin' life.

Spoiler Defender: :

Machine Gun.

 

[WastinTime]

I'll make a wall so it can only go east and then hit it with Catapult.

Didn't the plan already work perfectly You can attack it this turn (after Engineering)
In fact, it's so perfect, that the 4xp Cat can board next turn,board 150 (galley chain), unload 151, and bombard Mound City 152.
As much as I'd love to keep getting xp, Mound City is probably more urgent.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I'll try to have the beaker overflow numbers up in 90 minutes.

Here is the beaker overflow from last turn.

Spoiler :

Looks like 596*1.2 = 715 beakers + 2454 = 3169 - 2496 = 673 / 1.2 = 560 overflow.

Liberalism - 716/2184
Chemistry - 2808
Sci. Method - 3744
Biology 5616

We can probably sustain our current 520 per turn beaker rate now that we are out of golden age on T149.
Our empire population is 9 + 8 + 7 + 11 + 7 + 10 + 8 = 60 population
Each bulb should be worth 1500 + 60*3 = 1680

Trying to work our tech progress forward
T149 - Chemistry (1680/2808 after bulb) goes to (560+520)*1.2 = 1296 + 1680 = 2976/2808
T150 - Scientific Method (3360/3744 after 2 bulbs) goes to (140+520)*1.2 = 660 + 3360 = 4020/3744
T151 - Biology (5040/5616 after 3 bulbs) goes to (230 +520)*1.2 = 900 + 5040 = 5940/5616
T152 - Liberalism (716/2184) goes to (270 + 520)*1.2 = 948 + 716 = 1664/2184
T153 - Liberalism (1664/2184) goes to 520*1.2 = 624 + 1664 = 2288/2184
T154 - Pick Medicine! Sushi founded

So we have an excess of 96 / 1.2 = 80 RAW to let cities work more food?
No, we do have to 3-pop whip Forge in Silver City on T153. Mmm

Smolensk has Tao (I'm curious when that happened).

It wasn't Tao on T148.

Spoiler :

 

[WastinTime]

So we have an excess of 96 / 1.2 = 80 RAW to let cities work more food?

Soon we will have more food than we know what to do with (or how to pay for), so focus on Astronomy 157. How does that look?

Our Peter galley has just enough time for two trips from Silver to the fort and then to Profit for upgrade to galleon 157. DoW Charley 158 and unload 6? units at Nuremburg. Probably just one galleon can handle the job. Drop 2 musket + 1 cat and start bombarding. Go back and get 2 musket + chariot. Maybe the Musket-Healer upgraded from warrior?
Warriors don't upgrade to musket.

 

[Kaitzilla]

According to the AI difficulty modifiers, the AI gets 50% upgrade cost on any difficulty.

Then the era modifier is added.
Sitting Bull is Medieval, so -6% for Emperor AI.

0.94*0.5 = 0.47

Upgrade cost from Archer to Longbow is 3 * hammer difference + 20
3*25+20 = 95 for human.

95 * 0.47 = 45 for Sitting Bull to upgrade to Longbow.

I think that is right?

Anyway, we should be able to use espionage to determine how much Sitting Bull has saved up.

Poverty Point had a 23% distance penalty, so Cahokia should have a 27% distance penalty based on Counterespionage mission cost.

Sitting Bull had 24 empire population on T148.
Steal Treasury in 8 pop Cahokia cost 56
Pull out the 27% distance penalty and 93% spending bonus, and it becomes 48
Divide by 3, and we can steal 16 from Cahokia.
Cahokia is 8/24 or 1/3rd of the empire population, so the empire has 16*3 = 48 in the bank.
Sitting Bull had barely enough to upgrade a single Archer on T148.

Sitting Bull has 24 empire population on T149.
Steal Treasury in 8 pop Cahokia cost 53
We can steal 15, so the empire has 45
Still barely enough to upgrade a single Archer somewhere.
Did Sitting Bull generate 46 and upgrade 1 Archer already?

Anyway, Sitting Bull is very poor and can only upgrade 1 Archer occasionally I think.
We should keep pressing his cities and attacking those only defended by regular archers using our Galleys to move quickly.
Keep up the blockade on the capital and burn down that incense plantation.

 

[WastinTime]

a) I'd really like an 2nd 4xp cat for Nuremburg.

b) the Peter Galley brings worker+musket to the fort, then on the 2nd trip only has a musket. So maybe the 2nd cargo slot is a cat?

c) Silver is too busy with execs, so Whales whips a forge and maxOF into a Cat. Crap, no barracks.

d) Ok, so there was talk of a cat from Profit (which has rax.) How do we get +1xp on it? Or do we just take the 3xp to Nuremburg and bombard slowly. Find 1xp over there somewhere.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Soon we will have more food than we know what to do with (or how to pay for), so focus on Astronomy 157. How does that look?

Our Peter galley has just enough time for two trips from Silver to the fort and then to Profit for upgrade to galleon 157. DoW Charley 158 and unload 6? units at Nuremburg.

Galley -> Galleon costs 110
Caravel -> Frigate costs 110
Trireme -> Frigate costs 140

The best way to spread Sushi could use some thought.
Whale can whip a lot due to Globe Theatre in the future and already having a Courthouse. It can get Sushi spread in a single turn I think.
Hard to send 2 Sushi execs. to the mainland from Whale + Silver though.

a) I'd really like an 2nd 4xp cat for Nuremburg.

b) the Peter Galley brings worker+musket to the fort, then on the 2nd trip only has a musket. So maybe the 2nd cargo slot is a cat?

c) Silver is too busy with execs, so Whales whips a forge and maxOF into a Cat. Crap, no barracks.

d) Ok, so there was talk of a cat from Profit (which has rax.) How do we get +1xp on it? Or do we just take the 3xp to Nuremburg and bombard slowly. Find 1xp over there somewhere.

Ya, Profit 2nd Catapult for Sitting Bull would have gone with the Musket, but now it is too late.
Profit only does 8 per turn now.

Stupid Peter and his T151 Harbor scuttled the fast 2nd Cata.

If we want one for Holy Roman Empire, we could start making one now slowly sure.
Might be better to make a Trebuchet, but Profit has low food and needs a Forge + Courthouse.

 

[Kaitzilla]

@Mitchum when is your army going to DoW Charley? which city? and with how many units? how many boats?

Here is the military of the Holy Roman Empire such as it is.
T147

Spoiler :

T148

Spoiler :

Holy Roman Empire can tech Feudalism at any time.

 

[WastinTime]

The best way to spread Sushi could use some thought.

Exec spread:

Silver -> Science + 1t travel (157 spread)

Round 2:
Silver-> Whales 0t (158 spread)
Science -> Clams 0t (159 spread)

Round 3:
Whales -> Cows 1t (caravel's 2nd trip) (T160 spread)
Clams -> Canal 1t (needs a galley ride) (T162 spread)

Round 4:
Cows -> Profit (T163 spread)

^^ Original plan. (with turn numbers added now that we know)
The boating works out nice there, so that's probably the plan.
I'm not seeing a good way to shift the burden to Whales and have the caravel work out.

 

[Kaitzilla]

^^ Original plan. (with turn numbers added now that we know)
The boating works out nice there, so that's probably the plan.
I'm not seeing a good way to shift the burden to Whales and have the caravel work out.

Whales gets Sushi on T158 in this plan?
Silver whips on T155 and T 157.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Here is the beaker overflow from last turn.

Spoiler :

Looks like 596*1.2 = 715 beakers + 2454 = 3169 - 2496 = 673 / 1.2 = 560 overflow.

Liberalism - 716/2184
Chemistry - 2808
Sci. Method - 3744
Biology 5616

We can probably sustain our current 520 per turn beaker rate now that we are out of golden age on T149.
Our empire population is 9 + 8 + 7 + 11 + 7 + 10 + 8 = 60 population
Each bulb should be worth 1500 + 60*3 = 1680

Trying to work our tech progress forward
T149 - Chemistry (1680/2808 after bulb) goes to (560+520)*1.2 = 1296 + 1680 = 2976/2808
T150 - Scientific Method (3360/3744 after 2 bulbs) goes to (140+520)*1.2 = 660 + 3360 = 4020/3744
T151 - Biology (5040/5616 after 3 bulbs) goes to (230 +520)*1.2 = 900 + 5040 = 5940/5616
T152 - Liberalism (716/2184) goes to (270 + 520)*1.2 = 948 + 716 = 1664/2184
T153 - Liberalism (1664/2184) goes to 520*1.2 = 624 + 1664 = 2288/2184
T154 - Pick Medicine! Sushi founded

So we have an excess of 96 / 1.2 = 80 RAW to let cities work more food?
No, we do have to 3-pop whip Forge in Silver City on T153. Mmm


It wasn't Tao on T148.

Spoiler :

Our 80 beaker cushion was just a mirage.

We won't have +10% from Monasteries T151, T152, or T153!

Science City can work scientists on the Wealth T151, but I don't see anymore beakers anywhere else.

I hate Build Research

 

[Kaitzilla]

Smolensk has Tao (I'm curious when that happened). Peter may switch, but we should be able to maintain Friendly which is another reason I want him in the war.
We have to give PPress + Optics for War, Eng, and 30 Gold.
That gives him a chance to pick Astronomy

Peter is doing about 110 per turn I'd say.

We can have Astro by T157 thanks to our Great Scientist.

If Peter started Astro on T150 after getting Optics, it would take him until T175ish to complete.

I'm not sure we can wait that long for Iron, trade routes, galleons, Frigates, and Privateers.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Smolensk has Tao (I'm curious when that happened). Peter may switch, but we should be able to maintain Friendly which is another reason I want him in the war.
We have to give PPress + Optics for War, Eng, and 30 Gold.
That gives him a chance to pick Astronomy

Ya, PPress + Optics+ war is best overall.

Gunpowder is not appealing, Education guarantees wasted turns on Liberalism, and Representation makes Democracy quite likely in my opinion.
We'll just have to see what he picks.

 

[WastinTime]

Add to the PPP. Watch for Peter getting a GS, then gift him Education (so he'll bulb Astro)
And don't bulb Astro with our GS until probably T156 (next turnset)
I agree we probably can't wait for Peter on Astro, but in the case of a GS for him, we can.

 

[WastinTime]

Who are you getting Calendar from T151 after triple bulb Bio? and what tech in trade?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Add to the PPP. Watch for Peter getting a GS, then gift him Education (so he'll bulb Astro)
And don't bulb Astro with our GS until probably T156 (next turnset)
I agree we probably can't wait for Peter on Astro, but in the case of a GS for him, we can.

I've tried to estimate the odds of Peter getting another Great Scientist soon.

He got his 3rd Great Person a Prophet in 600AD. (1st was Philosophy bulb, 2nd was Academy I think)
He also completed Great Library in 640AD.

Spoiler :

2 turns with 2 specialists, and then 7 turns with 2 specialists + Great Library
No National Epic that I can see, but he does has Philosophical trait.

Spoiler :

3*2 = 6 * 2 = 12 gpp
14*2 = 28 * 7 = 196gpp
208/400gpp right now
28 * 7 = 196
196 + 208 = 404/400gpp

Moscow might birth a Great Scientist on T156.

Who are you getting Calendar from T151 after triple bulb Bio? and what tech in trade?

I think it has to be Bismark unless we want to trade Peter yet another tech.
Not sure what would be best to trade Bismark.

Spoiler :

 

[LowtherCastle]

If we could get Peter started on astronomy now, GS on T156 might be perfect for his calculations on bulbing Astro to completion.

I’m not convinced an AI will even partially bulb a big tech like astro.