[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[LowtherCastle]

I am encountering the strangest bug.
The Real Game clearly has a bonus from 1 AI we've met knowing Sailing. (We are teching slightly faster in the Real Game than we should )
I've checked and Sitting Bull does not have Sailing.

Testing with world builder, giving the AI we know Sailing gives us the tech bonus and taking it away from him removes our tech bonus, so it is not a world builder artifact.
Both the real and test game have 156 to tech Sailing, so they are both on the same difficulty of emperor.

Here is a screenshot with the Real Game on top and the Test Game on the bottom with nearly identical conditions. (Real Game has 2 extra in Sailing I think)
The Real Game is clearly teching faster.

Spoiler :

Once I give the test game AI that we have met Sailing, the tech bars match.

How are we getting the ~5% bonus to teching Sailing if Sitting Bull does not have Sailing yet?
If he had Sailing, he would have formed a city network with us since we explored 1 tile into the borders of his capital.
I don't see the city network symbol on the T26 Real Game screenshot.

**Edit**
Ok, I figured it out.
Real Game Sitting Bull did have Sailing on T25, but he never established a city network with us between T25 to T32 because he did not unfog a chain of coastline from his capital into the crab at Cow City.

Mystery solved.

We must’ve gained six or seven bakers, right? AIs do not tech sailing so early usually. Very lucky.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Food
T32 14f — 13f — 11f — 9f — 4/5f (Hindi) — 4f (SB)

Cool, some of the AI have 14 food and 13 food?
We should conquer them!

Sitting Bull Analysis

tl;dr — Sitting Bull may have very few more land tiles!

T0 7 land tiles
T4 11 land tiles
T32 1? land tiles
His turf looks like this:

nn333
n3222u
oo111qu
oooc1qu
ooo11qu
uuqqquu

c=center
o=water
n=neutral land
1=first ring of land tiles
2=second ring land
q=second ring unknown
u=third ring unknown

The point is, only 1 of those 6 q’s is land!

If I had the demo screens for t14-21 (hint hint), I might be able to figure out how many of the u’s are land. Plus I could mostly figure out the land configs for the other AIs.

SB should finish his settler shortly. I wouldn’t be surpised to see him settle toward Canal.

Haha, how on earth do you tease out this data?
Score boost on Turn 5 +20 turn delay = Turn 25?
I did not know the # of land tiles Sitting Bull has each turn was available to us.

So Sitting Bull is surrounded by a narrow strip of land and water hmm.

We must’ve gained six or seven bakers, right? AIs do not tech sailing so early usually. Very lucky.

I want to say we are 7 ahead of my test playthrough, but I am not certain.
Very lucky ya.

 

[WastinTime]

Thx for the test game. I'll get a PPP out in a few hours. I had some time to work on it already.

I want to say we are 7 ahead of my test playthrough, but I am not certain.

Good because I'm gonna work the T37 crabs which means less fur than your test (in Cows City).

So Sitting Bull is surrounded by a narrow strip of land and water hmm.

Well, there's probably one complete column of ocean tiles at the map edge and then 1 column of coast, and SB is only 5 f

Real Game Sitting Bull did have Sailing on T25,

Yikes!
Do not OB with SB! Whether we get Writing or he does.
He can't use our Canal to settle NE island (very easily) if we keep 'em closed.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Cool, some of the AI have 14 food and 13 food?
We should conquer them!

For p3, 2 cities, not much. Like two crab nets and a plains farm.

Haha, how on earth do you tease out this data?
Score boost on Turn 5 +20 turn delay = Turn 25?

Yup, T20 (7 tiles — we see them all) and T24 (4 — we see 3 of 4). We also see 4 from 100, T32.

So Sitting Bull is surrounded by a narrow strip of land and water hmm.

Either there’s a one-tile isthmus going south or some land going east or nothing more, I think.

 

[WastinTime]

PPP#1.4
Turn 32 to Turn 44​

Mitchum's playthrough up to Turn 22:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-27#post-15752205
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-29#post-15752400

Empire

Kait's turnset (with pictures)
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-39#post-15755127

Techs
T32-T33 Mining 0%
T34-T36 Mining 100%
T37-T39 Bronze Working 0% til 51g (-17gpt)
T40-T42 Bronze Working 100%
T43 Bronze Working 50%
T44 Revolt to Slavery
End Turnset before revolting

Workers
Shepherd (Worker Science City)
T32 - T35 Farm rice
T36 - T38 Move towards deer
T39 - T43 Improve Deer

Cowboy (Worker 1N1W of Cow City)
T32-T37 Move towards silver 7N10W of Cow City
T38-T42 Mine silver
T43 - T44 Move to Fur 1N of Silver City and improve
OR
T43 - Move to forest 1S1W of silver if there will be 3 in the bank on T44
T44 - T48 Chop forest for 10 in Silver City

Phillip (Starts in Science City)
T41 - Help improve Deer/Fur in Cow City, or head south to improve new overseas city

Settlers
Settler 3 (Silver City)
T37 found city

Settler 5 (4S2W of Science City)
T40 - Get on Galley to sail south

Settler 7 (4N2E of Science City)
T32 - T36 Duck inside borders to prevent -1 per turn cost if needed
T37 resume sentry outside borders abandon lookout efforts and go to Canal

Settler 4 (9N12W of Cow City)
lookout at Whales

Cities
Cow City
T32 - T33 Galley; Cow, PlainsRiverFarm
T34 - T36 Galley; Cow, PlainsRiverFarm, Fur
T37 - T39 Galley; Cow Crab PRF
T40 - T43 Workboat (for Cow City + sails during revolt); Cow, Crab, Fur (at p4 add Deer)


Science City
T32 - T34 Stonehenge; Sheep, Horse, WineFarm
T35 - T36 Rax; Sheep, Horse, RiceFarm
T37 - T40 Worker (named Phillip); Sheep, Horse, RiceFarm, WineFarm
T41 - T42 Stonehenge
(Make sure NOT to complete Stonehenge or Game Over!)
T43 Monument for +happy. Suggestions were: Worker or Barracks or Scout or Warrior;

Canal City
T32 Workboat; Tundra Forest x2
T33 Monument; Crab, Coast
T34 - T44 Workboat - (so we have both started); Crab, Coast x2
T45 whip Monument
T46 whip wb
Explore the NE island before we settle Whales-1E on T52.

Silver City (Founded Turn 37)
T37 - Monument; Unimproved Clams
T38 - T42 Monument; Clams
T43 - T44 Monument; Clams, Silver Mine

Units
Workboat 1 (Exploration Workboat)
Explore all corners and return to net cows' crabs

Workboat 2 (Starts in Cow City)
T32 - T37 Move to Silver City
T38 - Improve clams 1S1E of Silver City

Workboat 3 (Starts in Canal City)
T33 - Improve crabs 1N1E of Canal City

Galley 1 (Starts in Cow City)
T40 - Head south (Take Settler 3)
T43 - SW (drop settler) NE
T44 - Phillip boards

Workboat 4 (Starts in Cow City)
T44+ (next turnset)

Diplomacy
Espionage on Sitting Bull
Screenshot his city + espionage screen every turn
Screenshot the demo screen every turn
screen grab F7 each turn. Religion.
Note his score.
Do not OB with SB until we have control of NE island

T32 - Trade (Give) Sheep to Sitting Bull
Check each turn, esp. when netting crab and clam for more trades.
Give-in to any resource demands, even horse But I don't think he'll ever demand a resource we have only 1 of.


Stopping Points
Meet a new AI

Test Save T44

 

[Kaitzilla]

Should our Exploration Workboat #1 not sail directly for the northwest after finishing up down south?
Hmm, I guess Cow City can make a replacement for it 5 turns later.

 

[WastinTime]

Delayed galley (by working Crabs) since we can't settle before BW and we have to pick up Phillip T44.

Should our Exploration Workboat #1 not sail directly for the west after finishing up down south?

It's perfect timing to net crabs, and we can work the tile since we don't want the galley that soon.
Another wb is coming T44. I value that more than any urgency with the far West.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Delayed galley (by working Crabs) since we can't settle before BW and we have to pick up Phillip T44.

It's perfect timing to net crabs, and we can work the tile since we don't want the galley that soon.
Another wb is coming T44. I value that more than any urgency with the far West.

It takes 4 turns to chop tundra forest (+25% time for improvements), so Phillip would only be 1 turn slower getting us stone than Shepherd.
Settling as soon as possible with T39 Galley + Shepherd would get us stone 2 turns faster, but we would not know where bronze is when settling and deer improvement would be much delayed.
Then again, there is only really 1 spot to settle with stone.

What if we only moved the Galley 1 tile on T39?
Picked up Shepherd on T41 after it put 2 turns on deer.
Then drop both Shepherd on the forest and settler near the city site T42.
Shepherd gets on forest T43, city is founded T43, and forest gets chopped T47.

Phillip could finish the Deer on T46 instead of the original T43.


Netting crabs sounds good.

 

[WastinTime]

City on T43 would prevent us from getting BW T44. (then Anarchy, so no point settling)
As per the plan, we found the city T45 and Phillip jumps onto the forest that same turn T45 cus we sail him all the way to StoneCity
Chop completes T49. Monument exists on T50
It's like a well-oiled machine.
It does set our galley back several turns getting to the NE island, but not sure we can afford to settle more that soon.

 

[WastinTime]

Looking ahead in our tech path (even with Stonecity trying to cripple us)
T49 Wheel (so Phillip can keep busy)
T52 Pottery (maybe 53)
???

IW is about 9 turns maybe 8, but we want Masonry by T60
Masonry 3t
Meditation 4t
Priesthood 3t
Writing
Math
CoL
Oracle -> CS
Currency

 

[WastinTime]

I'm really preferring Whales-1E
Has silver in 1st ring. We could settle this city sooner and not screw up Oracle tech plans.
Has a nice Fur (non-tundra) Several mine-able hills actually. Maybe even mine the fur?
We get +2 health! if we don't chop.
And we won't bother chopping a monument (we whip)
Even if we want to chop 2 for a granary or whatever, we still have 1 health.
That's better than +1f on whales (which only has 1c btw)
And it's closer to capital.
Maybe we settle it right after pottery? T52 Cus we have some time where we can 'damage' our economy before we need Masonry T60.

 

[WastinTime]

We should think harder about chopping forests willy nilly like usual. Focus on health (for the 1st time ever.)
I'd say the stone chop is necessary. and we leave 2 forests for +1 health.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Great PPP!

1. Sci rax OF 5h into Phillip to complete T41. Then two options:

• T53 disembark on NE Isle: Phillip boards slightly delayed galley T43...
• T52 disembark on NE Isle: Shepherd boards slightly delayed galley T42, Phillip finishes deer camp 1t later than planned...

Hitch: Sci works rice, coin for +51g comes from elsewhere. SH MM delayed.

2. S7 needs to be moved to Canal eventually.

3. Supply cost for Stoned entourage being considered?

4. Note on T52 plan above, Shepherd disembarks onto Marble-1n2w!!! Just in case there is copper on either stone-se or stone-1s3e.

5. Watch for SH settling shortly. Note any changes in his score. (Comped tech)

 

[LowtherCastle]

I estimate the canal work boat would need about seven turns minimally to scout the north east island. Could that still be done whipping the work boat after whipping a monument in Canal?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Ya, chop tundra forests in BFC as little as possible unless they have fresh water.
A 1 tile is useless in the long run.

In canal city, put 1 turn into monument and then start a workboat.
We can whip the workboat 1st and then monument 2nd so we can settle the north question faster.

If Sitting Bull demands horse, give it to him.

 

[WastinTime]

We have no supply costs starting T37. Even with S4 hanging out at Whales.
Newest wb T44 would normally cost 1 supply starting T45, but not if we settle Prophet City.

In canal city, put 1 turn into monument and then start a workboat.
We can whip the workboat 1st and then monument 2nd so we can settle the north question faster.

I was thinking that too, but woke up thinking ideally want to 4->2 whip a granary ~T52.. But we can't wait for monument even if we sent wb1 up there.
I suggest we whip Monument T45 so we get borders T56.
a) Delay 1-whip of wb T51-52 (assuming pottery is scheduled to come) for large OF into Granary, 1-whip granary.
Or
b) (like LC said) (I think we grow fast enough -- not tested)
T45 (whip mon) T46 whip wb (OF to another wb) (down to size 1, but now we're doing 4 fpt.
2->1 whip maxOF into granary. 2->1 whip granary. That's a lot of anger. (4->2 whip lighthouse.)

If Sitting Bull demands horse, give it to him.

Agree, but I don't believe the AI can demand something we have 1 of, so maybe we avoid roading the other horse for a while? (until we need to trade it for Ivory, etc)

1. Sci rax OF 5h into Phillip to complete T41

I like this I will test whether I need to scrape up another coin or not. If so, we have Cows work the Fur 1 more turn instead of Crabs.
Tested: no need to scrape. We have exactly enough for BW 90% 1 turn, then 60%. And if we need to squeeze another coin or two at the last second we have options.

PPP updated

 

[Mitchum]

PPP looks good, WT.

Long-range wonder planning
Oracle: Stone City
GLH/Colossus: Cows? Canal?
Mids: ???
GLib: Science

I brought this up before but in the test game, Emperor-level AI start with 2 scouts (and 2 archers and 1 settler). We've only seen one of SB's scouts, right? From what we can tell, SB has not met anyone else yet due to his EP spending on us. So where is his second scout?

 

[WastinTime]

GLH/Colossus: Cows? Canal?

Good question. GLH (or any early-ish wonder) in Canal gets us Wheat faster.
We should decide this b4 next turnset because we'd need to re-consider all the whips there.
Or, we decide now just in case we want WB1 to go to Canal instead of netting Cow's crabs. Could be a huge relief on GLH effort.
To do GLH, as you all know, you have to whip a lighthouse to enable OF into GLH, so it's before granary and ideally before whipping a wb. (Hence sending wb1 to Canal)

Mids: ???

Remember : Engineer city has to do IronWorks, (Factory prereq) + Industrial Park, and may benefit from a power plant. Seems like CowsCity (vs Canal)

 

[LowtherCastle]

On NE Isle: We’ll want a wb there for instanets (will we settle it without food?!), we’ll almost surely want a worker there too (sheep) and Sci will have hammers to burn. So...

I think the wb can precede the galley even by only a turn or two and we’re good. The wb will get around the SE corner (it doesn’t need to defog the NE corner coastal tile if there is one). The worker can jump off first and hopefully we’ll then have sufficient inland info to settle asap.

Optimize Canal for its own growth (granary..).

 

[Mitchum]

Some of our planned tech dates should be improved once we cash in on SH fail gold. It's hard to say how soon that will happen though.

Also, have we 100% taken diplo victory off the table? If not, we need to revisit that before we plan the GLH too extensively because if we build GLH, we obviously can't build the UN.