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[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Your keyboard should? have s Pause key. Mine is Fn+End.
    While not required, it's a good habit to pause the save before uploading. I uploaded probably 50 times before I could remember to pause :blush:.
    You can open the saves even if not your turn. That's why we like it paused (It's mostly so LC doesn't give away a city)
    You don't have to pause/upload to discuss. only if the the team wants to see it.
     
  2. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    i'm heavily favoring the crab,deer,dbl-silver horse site. You know, the one we almost settled #3.
    Only 1 less food than our other options. Good amt of forests and 3rd ring forests. And if we're in slavery vs caste/scientists, it'd be nice to work those 2 silver. especially in a golden age after the city's GP birth.
    I think those resources will trade better than 2 more seafood.
    The forests SE of Science can be chopped for a small amt in Science (before SB gets there)
     
  3. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Goto mapping is an exploit that you can use to determine if fogged tiles are coastal, plain, hill, or mountain. “Goto” refers to clicking on any unit and then using the mouse to see the white circle and dotted line around the map, which gives you the number of turns to move there and so forth. You can freely use it over defogged tiles.

    Flying camera is a special CIV function which I’ve almost never exposed myself to. It can be exploited by experts to see under the fog somehow or another.

    In short just don’t exploit these two functions.
     
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  4. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    of course, we wouldn't OB with any other AI that shows up (to prevent circumnav.)
    Meeting another AI is usually a stopping point for discussion, btw.
     
  5. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Contrary to my earlier wishes to scout beyond SH, I have two serious concerns with OBs with SB:
    • SB stealing our wheat
    • Close border tension negmods
    With the GW in Canal, I don’t see how we’re going to get the wheat very soon. Confu holy city is unlikely. We could possibly force the Tao holy city there if we bulb Philo. Library will help. We might simply have to hold off on OB’s with SB for a long time.

    SB has a -4 attitude change on border tension negmods. Not sure how it’s calculated. He could become a royal pita.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  6. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Good thinking, but I think we have to do OB--at least for a while and maybe close them?
    I say we wait til he settles city #3. He built that settler, right?
    Then hopefully we can make it 10t and are able to close borders any time we want.
     
  7. MirrorGuard

    MirrorGuard Prince

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    I thought about it before. It means spreading Confu to all but canal and choosing Taoism as state religion or no religion. :nono:
     
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  8. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    SB to Pleased, re-visited

    +1 Peace
    +2 Resource trades
    +2 Shared religion (SB will go to +3)

    We’ll need to spread our religion to him if we determine he’s a DOW threat.
     
  9. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Good point. Forgot about that factor. So Confu+ library asap. And maybe monastery + temple. :lol:
     
  10. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    When someone opens the Real Save and does something that can't be reversed, such as move a unit or give away a city, the BUFFY mod logs it for the permanent record.
    This prevents people from playing earlier saves over again without their final results being thrown out by the judges.
    I've had 2 games rejected in the past for replaying earlier saves. :o

    So how can team members safely view the Real Save?
    The Pause Button
    :)

    While Civ 4 is "paused", any unit moves are queued up and await someone unpausing the game to execute.
    There will be a flashing message at the bottom of the screen to indicate the game is in paused mode.
    Spoiler :

    Saving the game, exiting, and reloading the save will start with a cleared queue with no paused moves being stored.
    That way people can open and close the real save without ever having an accident by moving something they should not have moved.

    Basically, when you get ready to play for real, download the Real Save and Unpause it if the previous player paused it.
    When you are done playing, Pause, Save, then upload the save file so the team can view it and not screw anything up by moving a Worker.



    Here is the Pause button on a standard keyboard.


    Yes, when it is not your turn, you can carefully download and look at the Real Save. :)
    Make sure it is paused so you don't accidentally move something.
    When done looking, save and exit with the game still paused.

    I think one time I downloaded the Real Save, forgot it was paused, and then moved a unit.
    When nothing happened, I panicked.
    Then when I realized the game was paused, I saved, exited to the menu, and then reloaded the game.
    Unpaused and everything was fine.

    Civ 4 is a bit unstable when loading a save while in game, so always exit to the main menu before loading another save file.

    In the event you make a mistake while viewing the Real Game such as trading away a tech, save the game, tell the team, and then upload it as our new official save.

    I recommend playing with the Pause button using the Test Game to try it out. :)


    When you are ready, download the (Home Slices) Real Game here
    When you are finished playing your turns, upload the Real Game here
    ===========================================

    I am unsure if you are launching Civ 4 in administrative mode, but the BUFFY mod we use requires it I think.
    Just right click on the Civ 4 icon like this when launching the game:


    ===========================================

    Goto Mapping with Flying Camera trick is a technique to explore the black fog in a map by enabling the flying camera mode.
    This is done by changing the initial conditions text file for Civ 4 BTS to AllowFlying = 1 I think.
    Spoiler :

    Basically, by untethering the camera and using a unit's GOTO function to move multiple spaces into the black, a player can map out every single tile's elevation.
    They can tell what is a hidden mountain, what is a hidden hill, what is hidden flatland, and what is a hidden sea tile I think.

    Anyway, this gives teams an unfair advantage by knowing where to sail/explore, so it is BANNED in competitive Civ 4 play.
    There is a bunch more stuff that is informally banned, but it is so obscure it is not even worth mentioning.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  11. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Anyone know the equation for border tension?
     
  12. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Heh, I ran into this back in February.


    =============================================
    Just to start out, here are the various thresholds for AI attitudes towards the player.

    The diplomacy thresholds are as follows:
    Furious: -10 diplo or lower
    Annoyed: -9 diplo to -3 diplo
    Cautious: -2 diplo to +2 diplo
    Pleased: +3 diplo to +9 diplo
    Friendly: +10 diplo or higher


    Our Close Borders Spark Tensions


    This is a negative diplomacy mod that can give up to a -4 diplomacy penalty.
    It occurs when you steal an AI's territory (tiles) that they would otherwise own.

    Outlined before by Pollina.
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/land-target-and-manipulating-the-ai.561148/#post-14116312

    And also the legendary Tachywaxon.
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/page-4#post-11940844

    Border tensions for each of the AI are governed by the xml value iCloseBorders.
    These can by looked up at any time by opening the DanF spreadsheet located here.

    =======================================

    To simplify what Pollina and Tachywaxon have already written on this subject, I'll lay out all 4 possibilities.

    Civs that give out a maxiumum -1 "Our Close Borders Spark Tensions" diplo penalty:

    1) Willem Van Oranje

    For Willem to give out the -1 diplo penalty, you must steal 20 tiles or more from him AND be his Land Target.

    If you are not a Land Target of Willem, it is impossible to get the diplo penalty. :)
    This will most often be the case if his capital is on a different land mass.
    Spoiler :


    Not a Land Target since capital is on an island.
    The maximum 20 tiles are stolen and still no diplo penalty.


    Moving the capital back to the mainland should activate Land Target status, so stealing 20 tiles should give the dreaded -1 border tensions.
    Spoiler :

    Hurk, it does not!?! :eek:
    Not even with 41 stolen tiles?
    Is the Land Target status not yet activated for some reason?
    Nope, I am 100% certain that Land Target is activated.
    I even advanced 1 turn just in case it was a world builder effect.

    Sigh, this is why Border Tensions never made it into Civ Illustrated.
    The Land Target guide took forever to write, and now I need to research the definition of "Stolen Tile" :lol:

    Let me figure out what went wrong...
    Tachy's code will be key.

    **Edit**
    Ok, stolen tiles only count if they are taken from the Big Fat Cross of the AI city.
    Spoiler :
    Land Target Active, 20 BFC tiles stolen, -1 border tensions.


    Land Target Active, 19 BFC tiles stolen, 0 border tensions.


    Land Target Active, 20 BFC tiles stolen, -1 border tensions.

    This is based off the formulas:
    A) Not a Land Target
    Diplo Penalty = Floor[iCloseBorders*Min(60,Big_Fat_Cross_Stolen Tiles*3)/100]

    B) Land Target
    Diplo Penalty = Floor[iCloseBorders*(Min(60,Big_Fat_Cross_Stolen Tiles*3)+40)/100]

    Stealing 20 BFC tiles from Willem while a Land Target of him gives a diplo penalty of:
    Floor[1*(Min(60,20*3)+40)/100] = Floor[(60+40)/100] = Floor(1) = 1 or -1 diplo penalty.

    Stealing 19 BFC tiles from Willem while a Land Target of him gives a diplo penalty of:
    Floor[1*(Min(60,19*3)+40)/100] = Floor[(57+40)/100] = Floor(97/100) = 0 or 0 diplo penalty.

    TLDR; Let me just put everything into 1 single table. :badcomp:


    iCloseBorders = 1
    Willem Van Oranje

    iCloseBorders = 2
    Asoka
    Brennus
    Churchill
    Cyrus
    Darius
    De Gaulle
    Frederick
    Gandhi
    Hammurabi
    Hatshepsut
    Joao
    Lincoln
    Mansa Musa
    Mao Zedong
    Mehmed
    Pacal
    Pericles
    Ragnar
    Ramesses
    Stalin
    Suleiman
    Victoria
    Wang Kon
    Washington
    Zara Yaqob

    iCloseBorders = 3
    Boudica
    Charlemagne
    Elizabeth
    Gilgamesh
    Hannibal
    Huayna Capac
    Isabella
    Kublai Khan
    Napoleon
    Peter
    Roosevelt
    Saladin
    Suryavarman
    Tokugawa

    iCloseBorders = 4
    Alexander
    Augustus
    Bismarck
    Catherine
    Genghis Khan
    Julius Caesar
    Justinian
    Louis XIV
    Montezuma
    Qin Shi Huang
    Shaka
    Sitting Bull

    **Edit**
    Added "Capital must be on same landmass" to the Land Target requirements.​
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  13. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I'm sure it will auto-spread. just like all those auto-forest growths we're getting :rolleyes:
     
  14. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Right, so the Halt Growth is a super-advanced technique that is very dangerous.
    It was famously championed by Doshin of the legendary Plastic Ducks team.
    My team and I never beat them in a Civ 4 team game, but I think Mitchum and LowtherCastle may have pulled off the feat once or twice, for which I am jealous.

    When it works, the Halt Growth button allows a city to get extra :food:! :king:
    When the player forgets to turn the button off, the city loses a ton of :food: :cry:
    Spoiler :

    Let me try to illustrate it, hang on.

    Avoid Growth Button used successfully:
    Spoiler :









    Normal City Growth:
    Spoiler :









    See, the button adds +4:food: more than normal in this example due to Granary mechanics! :D
    But if you forget to turn off Avoid Growth button, then the city loses 6:food: per turn (arguably more) and never grows to Size 3. :cry:


    Doshin had a long article on how to maximize production on 1 seafood islands somewhere, but I can't find it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  15. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    This is very dangerous. You will end up saving all the poking around you did on the paused saved.
    When it's time to play, you have to be sure to open the freshly downloaded save.
    Or you'll unpause and all hell breaks loose!
     
  16. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    in 25 words or less :twitch:
     
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  17. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    How do you keep a dumb a$$ in suspense? haha

    I knew the trick at one time but it's been added to the long list of things I store in volatile memory that are now lost every time I go to sleep.
     
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  18. MirrorGuard

    MirrorGuard Prince

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    In science city after granary is completed, It's 21f/26f with 5f surplus. on the next turn, 5f is released from granary without halt. With halt 2t, granary releases 14f. So it's 14-5=9f for 2 turn on wine farm 4f2h4c. Do I understand it correctly?
     
  19. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Wait, all the poking around gets saved?
    I need to test this!
     
  20. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    The equation is easy: 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17+18+19+20+21+22

    Spoiler :
    1. Don't
    2. place
    3. your
    4. cities
    5. too
    6. close
    7. to
    8. an
    9. A
    10. I
    11. or
    12. you
    13. will
    14. get
    15. the
    16. dreaded
    17. close
    18. borders
    19. tension
    20.negative
    21. diplo
    22. hit.
     

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