[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

You didn't list the biggest Con. You can't get CS without Math. So there's not really any reason to wait on Oracle for CoL.
But thanks for testing that option. I'm still (strongly) in favor of Math, CS
 
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Folks, I rescind my conclusion PR has completed the Oracle. I attempted a more careful exam of their culture graph, using my lousy, minuscule i6 and I’m not seeing +8:culture: on any single turn. Sorry about that.

I’m currently bewildered by their graphs and am not drawing any conclusions. Not even confident in my readings.
There’s a distinct possibility PR didn’t tech Writing after BW but instead Masonry! And the +6:culture: around T56 is the GLH! What makes this difficult to decipher is figuring out when they settled their cities.
 
You didn't list the biggest Con. You can't get CS without Math. So there's not really any reason to wait on Oracle for CoL.
But thanks for testing that option. I'm still (strongly) in favor of Math, CS
Agreed. We should go Math -> CoL (CS from Oracle). We can pick up IW after we've completed the CS slingshot.
 
I've been having stability issues on my new computer running Windows 10. Anyone else having problems?

I started one of the current BOTM games using my old, old Windows XP computer yesterday and it seems to be more stable.
 
* The GW fail gold is refunded in two turns, fail gold from silver at T71, the rest at T72?
Each city build is completed in the order the cities were established.
This can be viewed in the F1 Domestic Advisor.
1)Science City
2)Cow City
3)Canal City
4)Profit City
5)Silver City
6)Whale City

When the Great Wall is completed in Canal City, it goes to Profit City next and sees Great Wall in the build queue and converts it into fail gold.
This gold from Silver City appears the next turn.

On the next turn, the Great Wall in Science City and then Cow City is converted into fail gold.
This gold from Science and Cow City appears 2 turns after Great Wall is completed in Canal City.


1whip for Oracle at T78
I think the team is in love with Oracle chop T78 -> Civil Service.

It should be possible with Turn 70 Great Wall whip and no Stonehenge failgold. :)
Spoiler :
It has no room for error though. :sad:

Sign Open Borders T68.
Whip Monument in Whale T68 into Great Wall T69. Work crab and regrow to Size 2 as fast as possible.
After getting Library in Science City, work 2 scientists right away by not working Rice.
When 1-pop whipping Dun in Science City on T77, run 0 Scientists and work Rice to get 1 extra fail gold from Dun.
T78 - Using the 11:gold: from Dun overflow, barely be able to run 100% slider and complete Code of Laws with no beakers or coins to spare.
 

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for later reference
1 use SLOW Stonehenge assumption; priortize GW fail gold; may delay GW and Oracle ; risk?
prepare a B plan for Criminal SH
1.1 choice between COWs 3N1W road and long-term gem-deer road plan
1.2 finalize chop timing on prophet island
2 Settler 7: hibernate on rice till SB galley/settler in vision? wait for IW and settle far West?
3 explore SB territory: OB with SB ASAP; focus on 2nd kind of offensive unit SB just whipped for?
4 demographic data analysis: someone has reached 60% of our current population? 0 net export for all

1) Yes, the more I look at the plan with no Stonehenge fail gold, the more I like it. T78 Oracle chop should be our goal.

1.1) I still favor roading the Silver City fur, improving the Deer, and then moving to improve Whale City horses. The northern worker actions are just perfect.
That means doing the 5-road long-term gem-deer road idea.

After T67, the 4 southern workers actions elude me.
I can't figure out what is best! :cry:

Also, in my tests I always forget to give away the stone T78 before hitting next turn, or forget to pillage the road the following turn 79 and constantly blow it. :sad:
Whoever plays the next turnset must be extra careful

1.2) Chop timing on Profit island needs to be worked out still.

2) Setter 7 - Uhh, I'm still not sure.
I know the team is starting to favor the double silver + horse.
It has good food, good forests, good money in the short term, and best of all gives us a possible world monopoly on Deer, Horse, and Silver :eek:
We should probably move to settle our 7th city after completing Oracle.

3) I'm totally in favor of Open Borders on T68.
We need the +1:gold:, and exploring Sitting Bull with our Chariot before he can get another Settler out seems like a great idea.
Meeting the rest of the AI is the strongest teching:science: move we can possibly make.

4) AI population?
Spoiler :

T65 we are 177000
The strongest AI is 117000

A single city population = floor(PoP^2.8)*1000
Science City = 4pop = 48000
Cow City = 5pop = 90000
Canal City = 2pop = 6000
Profit City = 2pop = 6000
Silver City = 3pop = 21000
Whale City = 2pop = 6000
48k+90k+6k+6k+21k+6k = 177,000

Uhh, the strongest AI probably has 3? cities, so that would mean umm.
5pop + 3pop + 2pop
90k+21k+6k = 117,000
 
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Voila! 2clams now has 7 National Park tiles. Forest grew. Still could get to 13.

The new forest blocks fresh water to two of the three remaining plains tiles that could be farmed.
Sharp eye!
Yes, 2 east of Rice has a new forest now.

City 7: (dblSilver? Let's pretend yes) I wanna see how fast we can get it ready to produce GSs

It needs a wb from Canal right after GW. Ideally born T72.
City founded: T77 (or 1t before CoL/Oracle) Why? to try to get Confu founded here.

Either we get Confu or we use Caste/Bureaucracy for 5t. Borders pop in 2 or 3 turns. fyi, we use this 5 turns to get GS (or two?) for Education)

So, no monument (ah, that feels good to say out loud)
T78 anarchy, 1food in bin
T81 (or T82--let's go with 81) borders (needs crab nets), 3 food, start Deer camp

(for super speed, could chop 2 for granary, but I'll go with 1 chop)

T86 size 2, working Crab, Deer (30 + 8 hammers)
T90 size 3, Crab, Deer, silver, (46h granary)
T93 granary complete at about 13/26 food, start lighthouse (crab, deer, Horse)
T96 size 4, whip lh? or soon anyway.
T98 size 3
T100 back to size 4 (I think)
T110 size 8
Founding the 7th city costs us -5:gold: per turn if we work a coastal tile.

Mmm, might have to go to T79 Oracle chop if we want to settle the 7th City so fast.
That would be T80 anarchy.

Looking at all 3 city sites, I squint trying to see the hidden Iron. :lol:

T65 Real Game 3 city sites
Spoiler :







Horse + Silver + Crab (1S of silver)
Max of 7:food: per turn. (No fresh water)
5 additional coastal tiles
4 Forests in BFC
10 Forests when city reaches 100:culture:
At Size 10, the city will be +2:food: per turn, +8:hammers: per turn, and +23:gold: per turn without trade routes.
Horse + Silver + Crab seems best positioned to get the most hidden resources at 500:culture:
It also gives us a monopoly on horse, silver, and deer resources.
If this area has our only source of Iron, getting Cannons + Cuirassiers would significantly speed up and ease our world conquest.

Crab + Clam (1E of plains hill)
Max of 8:food: per turn. (No fresh water)
5 additional coastal tiles
9 Forests in BFC
12 Forests when city reaches 100:culture:
At Size 10, the city will be +2:food: per turn, +10:hammers: per turn, and +15:gold: per turn without trade routes.
2 river tundra tiles can be cottaged for the long term.
At Size 10, working 2 towns instead of hills would give +4:food: per turn, +5:hammers: per turn, and +27:gold: per turn without trade routes.

Twin Clams (2S2E of Rice)
Max of 8:food: per turn. (Fresh Water)
3 additional coastal tiles, 2 ocean tiles
6 Forests + 1 Jungle in BFC
10 Forest when city reaches 100:culture: (1 belongs to Science City BFC)
At Size 10, working 8 towns (long term) on plains+river tundra tiles, the city will eventually give +0:food: per turn, +7:hammers: per turn, and +49:gold: per turn without trade routes. :eek:
Can still grow to Size 12 and get +4:gold: per turn more due to 2 more coastal tiles.
The river will also allow +4:hammers: with levee, and there is a plains hill for a +4:hammers: surge as needed.
This city also shines the most during golden age.
This city appears to have the most teching potential.
It can also be chopped into existence very fast with Workboat, Monument, Granary, Workboat, and Lighthouse due to 5 forests in 1st ring that all have useful tiles underneath.


Here are all 3 city sites when all our cities have reached 100:culture:
Spoiler :




 
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Founding the 7th city costs us -5:gold: per turn if we work a coastal tile.

Mmm, might have to go to T79 Oracle chop if we want to settle the 7th City so fast.
That would be T80 anarchy.
I wasn't suggesting a delay of Oracle. Only if we have the extra gold (maybe from SH)
 
Also, in my tests I always forget to give away the stone T78 before hitting next turn, or forget to pillage the road the following turn 79 and constantly blow it. :sad:
Whoever plays the next turnset must be extra careful.
Our PPP format is good for outlining the turnset but not good for avoiding mistakes. The safest solution to prevent oversights is a step-by-step checklist that is tested with the test game. Pain in the ass but it’s foolproof.
 
Our PPP format is good for outlining the turnset but not good for avoiding mistakes. The safest solution to prevent oversights is a step-by-step checklist that is tested with the test game. Pain in the ass but it’s foolproof.
But is it Mitchproof? ;) I do something similar, BTW.

MG, what is your schedule for creating a PPP and when would you like to play assuming the plan is agreed?
 
Here's final nail in the UN coffin.

tl;dr I don't want to add 1000h to the 600h we already have to do post-sushi in Merchant city -- and maybe 2Clams is that city?.

After Sushi
, the final builds:

IntelAgency, Factory, IndPark, Lab, or whatever building I'm forgetting are all whippable or slow built is probably fine.
The real tough builds are:
- IronWorks 700 (does not get built faster with Iron)

- Wall St
600h and we don't want to add UN 1000h to that same city.

- These both make Kremlin seem easy to build. (800, but with stone). Kremlin is another late build if we miss GW.
And this same spy city has to do WestPoint (800, but stone). We might be able to WestPoint early if we think a detour to Cuir's is a good idea, but I doubt it.

If we get GW, Canal city still has to do 800 with only maybe 10? hpt -- counting a forge, 18hpt w/stone. That's 44 turns which we shorten with some whip OF.
So, if we miss GW, spy city has the hardest builds when combined (1600 stone) and that city is probably not Canal

Engineer is #2: 700 IW, Cows has a lot of hammers, over 20.

Merchant: even without the UN, 600h is a lot. Are we gonna be working tundra mines?
So, GLH or Colossus? We had this debate, but before learning we have no copper. Can we get it in trade?
How late can we get GLH?
Which city? We were thinking (if we missed GW) that GLH could go in Canal, but then it has to to Wall St!
I think we need our #2 production city to be Merchant.

TundraRiver can have workshop, but tundra tiles cannot.
Dbl-silver City
horse, ice-tundra mines for 18h base.

Crab-Clam has only 11hpt
Crab-Clam-1E can have 30hpt !! (of course--assuming we have a lot of food to work those tiles)

Dbl-Clam....Any guesses?
Spoiler :
49! hpt :eek:
but, it has to figure out how to work 11, zero-food tiles
On the bright side it can get 31hpt by just working 6 plainsWorkshops

Dang, I was committed to dblSilver, but maybe 2Clams is the Merchant city?
We coulda settled that 60 turns ago :(
And if this were a normal, random ice-age, I would have...but it made sense to look for hand-made surprises/greener pastures.
 
We’re going to need failgold producers later on to run 100% research. Can’t count on the AIs to complete anything. What’s that schedule?

That’s the most important factor in this game.
 
MG, what is your schedule for creating a PPP and when would you like to play
+12h from now I can finish the PPP and reserve 1 day for discussions. +36h I start to play the real save. Is it okay? Sorry I'm weak at MM. It takes too much time.
 
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