[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

:thumbsup:
So maybe a final PPP today? Seems like we've got the general plan solidified.

I did indeed manage T107 University working a lot of Scientists as you and Mirrorguard recommended. :)
Oxford can be done in 2 turns as long as the capital building a temple runs the plains forests instead of plains farm on T104 and T105.

I'll try to write down all the micro for a PPP tomorrow morning.
Only negative effect was Confu Missionary for Peter got delayed 1 turn in Whale City, but other than that everything was gravy.

Lots of dun overflows and double whips for Moai :D
 
//worker schedule for prechop and chop finalized.



PPP T95~T104
previous turn set

civic and religion switch
T95 convert to Confucianism T96 switch to caste and representation
T102 switch to organized religion and slavery

tech
100% slider throughout until education is completed
Paper-Polytheism-Monotheism-education


Workers
Heretic
T95 chop forest into canal T96~T101 move to canal city 2S1E hill and mine it
T102~ move to forest near SB border and chop it

Phillip
T95 move to tundra fur T96~T97 road the cow T98~T100 farm cows 1E T101~T106 mine plainshill 1S2E cows
T107 move to deer T108~110 chop 4S2W

Joan Dark
T95 move to cows 2N1W fur T96~T97 road the fur T98~T99 farm cows 1E T100 move to deer T101~T102 prechop 3S2W of science
T103~T104 prechop 2S3W of science T105~T108 road 3S3W T109 chop 3S3W

Cowboy
T95~T96 road 1S1E of whale city T97~T100 road silver mine
T101~T105 chop forest 2E of whale

Rex
T95~T96 road 3S1W science T97~T100 road 4S2W science T101~T104 Prechop 4S1W of science
T105~T108 chop 3S1W science T109~T110 move to and chop 4S1W

Shepherd
T95 complete farm NW of science city T96~T100 farm 2W of science T101~T103 road gem 2S science
T104~ road 3S3W science
T108 chop 2S3W T109~110 move to 3S2W and chop

Cities
science
T97~T98 missionary to canal T99~T100 missionary to clams T101 warrior
T103~T106 Confucian temple run 1 scientist at T105 2scientists at T106
T107 university run 1 scientist T108 9-4 whip university T109 Oxford T110 Oxford work on a plains forest

Cows
T97~T100 dun at 12hpt T101 warrior
T103 Moai T104 whip dun
T105 wealth work on tundra fur+coast
T106 Moai work 2 furs
T107~ Sankore

Canal
T97~T99 build wealth T100 Moai pop8 run 2 artists 1scientist 1 mine T101 dun
T103 dun run 2 scientist 1 mine T104 whip dun T105~ wealth
T109 Moai

Profit
T97 lighthouse(work on whale) T98 Wealth T99 pop3 Moai+64 T100~T101 monastery work on coast whale crab
T103~106 monastery work on stone 22/60 T107 2whip monastery
T108 Moai

Silver
T97~T101 Confucian monastery run 6 scientists at -1food/t
T103~ Confucian monastery work on 3*seafood 2scientists 2 coast 1 silver 1fur
Whale
T97 lighthouse T98 Moai work on horse T99~T101 library work on silver mine+fur
T102 missionary T103 2whip missionary T104 library
T105 Moai T106 library
Clams
T97 Moai work on plainshill mine T98~T103 dun T104 whip dun work on coast
T105 wealth work on coast
T106 Moai

Units
warrior 3
move to whale and garrison

Galley 1 with missionary
T95~ head towards whale drop off the missionary at T101 on fur 2S1E of whale

Galley 2 near Peter
T96~pick up the scout and explore the fogged coastal tile SW of Rostov if nothing is there, kill the scout.
move towards SE corner of Peter's main island move towards copper island and pick up missionary

Galley 3 for new world
pick up chariot and sail for island in the south

new warrior born in science at T103
move to gem 2S1W of science
T105 pillage road SW T106~107 move to science

old warrior in science
T107 move for clams to garrison

Diplomacy

give Peter fur T95
espionage points on Peter????
after paper is done, check how much their maps cost.
T104 after dun whippings are done, gift stone+deer to SB.
Never exchange map with anyone

Every turn
check if any1 has alphabet
check if SB and Peter meet
where SB's settler is going.
Note if any Great Scientists were born in the world
Check if Confu spread somewhere
Zoom in on Sitting Bull's cities and look for a Library
Save and the start and end of each turn

Stopping point
anyone has alphabet
see a warfist!
Peter demands gold?
either SB or Peter's map is quite expensive
exploration galley finds passage to other AI near Peter's islands
reach T105
 

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Love it! :goodjob:
Here's a bunch of minor stuff...

warrior in Science
I'm sure you have it right, but just note that it take 2 turns to get to the gems tile with the water crossing, so 103-104 move to gem.

Galley 2 near Peter
T96~pick up the scout and explore the fogged coastal tile SW of Rostov
There are several tiles to unfog. Simply unloading scout on that island gets them all, but I'm sure you know that.
The scout can be killed that same turn even without movement left (again, I'm sure you know that)
either SB or Peter's map is quite expensive
I don't wanna pay for maps.
espionage points on Peter????
I still vote yes on this
Never exchange map with anyone
I don't know if they demand maps, but I would gladly give our map for +1 diplo
Check if Confu spread somewhere
Maybe stop on this too. May cause an adjustment to build queues, etc.
 
I assume since it was a test game mainly for Oxford, you simply didn't whip these, but I'll point out anyway...

Silver should not go past 14/60 monastery (assume forge)
Profit (assume no forge) stops at 22/60
Whales (assume forge?) so LIbrary stops at 44/90 (for 14/90 w/o forge)

Forges have bad overflow, so should we 3-whip these at 8+/120 for no OF?
 
Regarding maps, I agree with WT that we don't want to pay gold for their maps. At this point, I'm not sure if we'd learn anything new even if we did buy them. We can easily get them as "change" in a lopsided tech trade after we've also taken all of the gold they have on offer.

I also agree that if an AI demands/requests our map that we give it to them.

Espionage on Peter sounds right. For some reason, I thought this had already been decided.
 
Forges have bad overflow, so should we 3-whip these at 8+/120 for no OF?

In a city that both a) needs a forge and b) has the food to quickly regrow 3 pops, then I think we should 3-pop whip them. The whipping action itself is happiness neutral right now but will be happiness positive once gems are connected.
 
T95 convert to Confucianism T96 switch to caste and representation

There is a tiny benefit if we switch to Caste + Representation on T95 and convert to Confu T96.
We could do 4 turns of caste instead of 5 if we really needed to.
Also, I think our different religion penalty with Charlemagne and the others will start building 1 turn later I think.
We can bribe the first we meet with 10:gold: to get +4 relations, but the 2nd AI we meet might be a different religion and -4 traded with worst enemy and -3 different religion. :sad:

Cowboy
T95~T96 road 1S1E of whale city T97~T100 road silver mine
T101~T105 chop forest 2E of whale
Bold!
I'm not sure if we want to keep all 4 forests for Parthenon or not? :hmm:

Profit
T97 lighthouse(work on whale) T98 Wealth T99 pop3 Moai+64 T100~T101 monastery work on coast whale crab
T103~106 monastery work on stone 22/60 T107 2whip monastery
T108 Moai
Err, typo here.
T100-T101 Monastery should be Crab, Whale, Stone

Diplomacy

give Peter fur T95
espionage points on Peter????
Ya, the team wants to move :espionage: onto Peter.
I thought we'd never spend slider money to take a peek at what Peter is teching, but now it is possible.

Canal
T97~T99 build wealth T100 Moai pop8 run 2 artists 1scientist 1 mine T101 dun
T103 dun run 2 scientist 1 mine T104 whip dun T105~ wealth
T109 Moai
I've been thinking about the artists in Canal last night.
Do we really want to do this?
We are getting a Great Artist from Music.
We might get a Great Artist from Parthenon pollution in Whale and Naitonal Epic pollution in Silver City.
Do we really want to risk having 3 Great Artists?

I'm now leaning strongly towards just working Scientists in Canal City.

Phillip
T95 move to tundra fur T96~T97 road the cow T98~T100 farm cows 1E T101~T106 mine plainshill 1S2E cows
T107 move to deer T108~110 chop 4S2W
This also really got me thinking.
Ideally, we get Iron Working at some point in the next 20 turns right?
So where does the gem improvement fit in? :think:
As near as I can tell, our best bet is to have 4 Workers chop a forest into our capital when we whip University on T108.
Then 2 more chops T109 while 2 Workers go improve gems.
Then capital is finishing up Oxford and 4 Workers are improving gems.
Then Oxford is online and we have 1 gem mine and 2/8ths of another.

I now think we don't have time to mine Plainshill 1S2E of Cow City
 
Not for this turnset, but once we know we have Education 107 locked in, we really need to stop working those silver N Fur tiles.

With Forges and OR, we can soon revise our valuation of tile yields:
Since 1 pop would be 45h and it takes about 15 food to grow....
1f = 3h

For failgold,
1f = 5c (up from 4c, but it's not 6c)

also
2h = 5c

So, coast = 12, silver = 10, Fur = 9, tundraFur = 6.5
PlainsRivFarm = 13.5
Gems = 16
 
There is a tiny benefit if we switch to Caste + Representation on T95 and convert to Confu T96.
We could do 4 turns of caste instead of 5 if we really needed to.
I think we need the full 5 turns caste
We get +3 shared religion 1t sooner if that matters

I'm not sure if we want to keep all 4 forests for Parthenon or not?
I was thinking maybe we want them for food, but yeah, we might need 2 for Parthenon.
We can pre-chop it this turnset and decide later. So T104 chop n STOP
Do we really want to risk having 3 Great Artists?

I'm now leaning strongly towards just working Scientists in Canal City.
a) we're talking about 1% artist
b) It doesn't matter what it is if we are using it for the GAge. We may get Aes, Lit, Music all free from Peter and no artist there.
c) nat epic probably goes in Whales to keep Silver pure.
I now think we don't have time to mine Plainshill 1S2E of Cow City
we will find out next turn (or two) If Peter & SB don't meet, i figured it could be T115 before they do (since we didn't close borders)
So plenty of time for that mine. Science has a lot of growing to do after the 4 whip, so gems are not important.
 
Hmm, Kublai Khan has Polytheism in the test game.
Make sure to remove it T100 with world builder so our testing does not accidently get extra beakers.

Science has a lot of growing to do after the 4 whip, so gems are not important.

I don't agree.
Bureau + Oxford + University + Library means working ONE gem mine gives us +22.5:science: for the cost of 1:food: per turn.
We can just work the 2 gems instead of Horse + farm and grow to Size 9 at +4:food: per turn instead of +5:food: per turn.
It is +33.75:science: per turn improvement over Horse + farm, and just -1:food: per turn loss.

No. Later after switching to org, Monastery gets +5h per turn. It will have exactly 22h/60 after 4T. If working on stone, Monastery will only have 18/60 before whip.
Ok, I will check the Profit City micro over again.
I was in a rush to get Monastery out as fast as possible in case the +2:culture: got us marble 1 turn faster.
**Edit**
The 22/60:hammers: monastery whip looks good. :goodjob:
We lose 4:culture: but we gain 2:food: at the end I think since we can work whale instead of stone 1 turn.
 
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not sure if we want to keep all 4 forests for Parthenon or not? :hmm:
The chop will be completed at T105. It can be just a pre-chop.
Err, typo here.
T100-T101 Monastery should be Crab, Whale, Stone
No. Later after switching to org, Monastery gets +5h per turn. It will have exactly 22h/60 after 4T. If working on stone, Monastery will only have 18/60 before whip.
For some reason, I thought this had already been decided.
I forget whether there is a consensus. The ? is a token of request for input. :smoke:

Silver should not go past 14/60 monastery (assume forge)
Profit (assume no forge) stops at 22/60
Whales (assume forge?) so LIbrary stops at 44/90 (for 14/90 w/o forge)
I mention Profit city production above. Silver and whale. Okay. Noted
 
Not for this turnset, but once we know we have Education 107 locked in, we really need to stop working those silver N Fur tiles.

With Forges and OR, we can soon revise our valuation of tile yields:
Since 1 pop would be 45h and it takes about 15 food to grow....
1f = 3h

For failgold,
1f = 5c (up from 4c, but it's not 6c)

also
2h = 5c

So, coast = 12, silver = 10, Fur = 9, tundraFur = 6.5
PlainsRivFarm = 13.5
Gems = 16
Maybe for the rest of our cities, but I see some very nice double whips that Whale City and Silver City can do to get a huge amount of gold into Moai before T115.
Forges are just too slow up there.

There are only 5 cities we can get Moai fail gold from, so the theoretical max is 1250:gold: unless we want to whip Moai itself.
 
gems are not important.
Yeah, I know, we'd work those tiles if we had them. I was just trying to make us (me) feel better for not having them.
Either way, there's nothing we can to get IW faster (except close borders)
At some point, we should be able to predict when Peter's wb will find SB and we'll figure out the workers.

but I see some very nice double whips that Whale City and Silver City can do to get a huge amount of gold into Moai before T115.
Right, Moai would have to take priority over Forges, but if we don't do them soon, they won't ever get done. We can keep the Library in Whales at 14/90 for this turnset and figure it out come T105.
 
2h (times 2.5 for stone + OR + Forge) = 5c

So 2 base-h = 5c

But 1f = 3 final-h

Cus otherwise you might think 1f = 7.5c, but it's only 5c
 
Alright, I'll try to revise Mirrorguard's PPP a little and see if everyone is happy with it.
Moai gold stuffing and Oxford chops are a headache again if we want to reserve a little time to improve the gems before Oxford is online Turn 111.
 
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PPP Draft 2
T95 to T105​

Civic + Religion Switch
T95
- Convert to Confucianism Religion!
T96 - Revolt to Representation + Caste!
T102 - Revolt to Slavery + Organized Religion!

Techs
T95 - Anarchy
T96 - Anarchy
T97 - Paper 100% (1070:gold: -70) +175:science: Paper@ 332/936
T98 - Paper 100% (1000:gold: -71) +184:science: Paper@ 543/936
T99 - Paper 100% (929:gold: -75) +197:science: Paper@ 765/936
T100 - Polytheism 100% (854:gold: -78) +221:science: Polytheism@ overflow/156
T101 - Monotheism 100% (776:gold: -79) +225:science: Monotheism@ overflow/187
T102 - Anarchy
T103 - Education 100% (697:gold: -81) +186:science: Education@ 259/2808
T104 - Education 100% (641:gold: -82) +190:science: Education@ 483/2808
T105 - Education 100% (559:gold: -83) +187:science: Education@ 712/2808
T106 - Bulb Education for 1644:science: Education@ 2581/2808
T107 - Start University (goes to 42/200:hammers:) in Science City

Workers
Cowboy
T95 - T96 Road 1S1E of Whale City
T97 - T100 Road Silver Mine 1E of Whale City
T101 - Move to forest 2E of Whale City
T102 - T103 Chop forest
T104 - Chop forest and
STOP!

Heretic
T95 - Chop forest into Canal City for Maoi
T96 - Move to forest 4S2E of Canal City
T97 - T100 Chop forest for Maoi
T101 - T102 Move to hill 2S1E of Canal City
T103 - T106 Mine

Phillip
T95 - Move to plains hill fur 2N1W of Cow City
T96 - T97 Road Fur
T98 - Farm 1E of Cow City and
STOP!
T99 - T100 Road 1E of Cow City
T101 - Move to deer tile
T102 - Move to 2S1E of deer tile
T103 - T105 Road to complete New Deer Road
T106 - T109 Chop forest 2S1E of deer tile into Oxford
T110 - Improve gems if we have Iron Working

Joan Dark
T95 - Move to 1N of Cow City
T96 - T99 Farm 1E of Cow City
T100 - T101 After Phillip completes the farm road, move to cow tile 1W of Cow City and road
T102 - Move to deer tile
T103 - Chop forest 1S1E of Deer tile
T104 - Chop forest and
STOP!
T105 - Move to forest plain hill 3S2W of Science City
T106 - T108 Chop forest into Oxford
T109 - After Shepherd chops the forest 3S1W of Science City, move to the forest 4S2W of Science City and chop into Oxford
T110 - Improve gems if we have Iron Working


Shepherd
T95 - Finish farm 1N1W of Science City
T96 - T100 Farm 2W of Science City
T101 - Move to jungle gems 2S of Science City
T102 - T103 Road Gems
T104 - T105 Road 1W of Science City
T106 - Move to forest 3S1W of Science City and chop forest
T107 - Chop forest and
STOP!
T108 - Chop forest 1S1E of Deer tile into Oxford
T109 - Chop forest 3S1W of Science City into Oxford
T110 - Improve gems if we have Iron Working

Rex
T95 - T96 Road 3S1W of Science City
T97 - Move to 4S2W of Science City
T98 - T100 Road forest 4S2W of Science City
T101 - T102 Chop forest 4S2W of Science City
T103 - Chop forest and
STOP!
T104 - Move to forest 4S1W of Science City
T105 - T108 Chop forest into University
T109 - T110 Improve Gems if we have Iron Working

Cities
Science City
T97 - T98 Confu Missionary; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, x3 Plainsriverfarm
T99 - T100 Another Missionary; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, x3 Plainsriverfarm
T101 - Sankore (goes to 45/550:hammers:) Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, x3 Plainsriverfarm, Plainsfarm (Get garrison Warrior moving south)

T102 - Anarchy
T103 - Temple; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, x3 Plainsriverfarm, Plainsfarm
T104 - T105 Temple; Sheep, Rice, Horse, Winefarm, x3 Plainsriverfarm, Plainsforest (1:food:2:hammers:)

Cow City
T97 - T98 Warrior (goes to 14/15:hammers:); Crab, Cow, Deer, Plainsriverfarm, Tundrafur (+1:food: +4:commerce:)
T99 - T101 Dun (goes to 48/50:hammers:); Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, Tundrafur
T102 - Anarchy
T103 - 1-pop Whip Dun; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Coast, Tundrafur
T104 - Moai (goes to 61/250:hammers: or 110/250 if we get back stone); Crab, Cow, Deer, Plainsriverfarm, Tundrafur, Plainshillfur (Have Warrior pillage Deer Road at 2S2E of Deer tile to get back stone)

T105 - Monastery; Crab, Cow, Deer, x2 Plainsriverfarm, Tundrafur

Canal City
T97 - Moai (goes to 28/250:hammers:); Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam, x3 Coast (chop lands)
T98 - T99 Dun; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam, x4 Coast
T100 - Moai (goes to 48/250:hammers:) ; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam, x3 Scientist, x2 Artist (chop lands)
T101 Dun; Crab, Clam, unimproved Clam, x3 Scientist, x2 Artist
T102 - Anarchy
T103 - 1-pop Whip Dun; x2 Clam, Crab, x3 Coast, Scientist (Do not work 2 scientists! Great Scientist must be born in Silver City)
T104 - Spread Confucianism -> Wealth; x2 Clam, Crab, x3 Coast, Scientist
T105 - Wealth; x2 Clam, Crab, x2 Coast, x2 Scientist

Clam City
T97 - Dun (goes to 34/50:hammers:); x2 Clam, Mine
T98 - Dun; x2 Clam, Coast
T99 - T101 Dun; x2 Clam, x2 Scientist
T102 - Anarchy
T103 - 1-pop Whip Dun; x2 Clam, Coast (After whipping all 3 Duns, gift Sitting Bull Stone + Deer)
T104 - Wealth; x2 Clam, x2 Coast
T105 - Spread Confu -> Moai (goes to 101/250:hammers:); x2 Clam, x2 Coast, Mine

Profit City
T97 - Lighthouse; Crab, Whale
T98 - Wealth; Crab, Whale
T99 - Moai (goes to 64/250:hammers:); Crab, Whale, Stone
T100 - T101 Monastery; Crab, Whale, Coast
T102 - Anarchy
T103 - T106 Monastery (goes to 22/60:hammers:); Crab, Whale, Stone, Coast

Silver City
T97 - T98 Monastery; x3 Crab, x6 Scientist (Don't let Monastery go above 2/60:hammers:)
T99 - T100 Courthouse; x3 Crab, x6 Scientist (Don't let Courthouse go above 2/60:hammers:)
T101 - Temple; x3 Crab, x6 Scientist
T102 - Anarchy
T103 - T106 Monastery; x3 Crab, Silvermine, Fur, x2 Coast, x2 Scientist

Whale City
T97 - Lighthouse; x2 Crab, Clam
T98 - Moai (goes to 56/250:hammers:); x2 Crab, Clam, Silvermine
T99 - T100 Library (goes to 14/90:hammers:); x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Silvermine
T101 - Moai (goes to 74/250:hammers:); x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Silvermine, Fur
T102 - Anarchy
T103 - Spread Confu -> Monastery; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Silvermine, Fur
T104 - Missionary for Peter (goes to 9/40:hammers:); x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Silvermine, Fur
T105 - 2-pop Whip Missionary; x2 Crab, Clam, Horse, Silvermine

Units
Warrior 4 (Science City Garrison)
T101 - Move to 1S of Science City
T102 - Move to gems 2S1W of Science City
T104 - Pillage deer road on plains hill 3S2W of Science City to get back our Stone
T105 - T106 Return to capital to fix anger for 1 turn
T107 - T109 Move to Clam City to garrison (Clam city is angry on T108, but 3-pop whipping Library in Whale City fixes it)

Warrior 3
T95 - T100 Move to garrison Whale City

Workboat
T95 - Head to Canal City to net last seafood on T103

Galley west of Peter + Scout
T95 - Wait
T96 - Pick up Scout and sail east
T97 - Drop off Scout on the island to reveal fog. If no new land or coastline discovered, delete Scout

T98+ Unfog the last bit of Peter's island to the southeast, then sail north to the deserted copper island to pick up Confu Missionary

Galley 2W1S of Cow City with Confu Missionary
T95 - T101 Sail to 3S1E of Whale City
T101 - Unload Confu Missionary onto fur 2S1E of Whale City
T102 - T103 Sail to 2W of Whale City

Galley born in Clam City
T95 - Sail east, pick up Chariot on the way, and sail south to make contact with Charlemagne's continent

Chariot
T97 - Get on Galley as it sails for the south

Confu Missionary 1 on Galley
T101 - Get off Galley onto fur 2S1E of Whale City
T102 - Move to Whale City and wait
T103 - Spread Confu to Whale City

Confu Missionary 2 (born in Science City T99)
T99 - T102 Move to Canal City
T103 - Wait for Dun
T104 - Spread Confu to Canal City to get Wheat faster

Confu Missionary 3 (born in Science City T101)
T101 - Move to Clam City
T102 - Move onto Clam City and wait
T103 - Wait for Dun
T104 - Wait
T105 - Spread Confu to Clam City

Great Scientist (born in Silver City T105)
T105 - Wait
T106 - Bulb Education for 1644:science:

Diplomacy
T95 - Give Peter Fur
T95+ :espionage: on Peter
T100 - After paper is done, check how much their maps cost.
T103 - After 3 dun whippings are done, gift stone+deer to SB.
Never exchange map with anyone

Every turn

Check if any1 has alphabet
Check if SB and Peter meet
Where SB's settler is going
Note if any Great Scientists were born in the world
Check if Confu spread somewhere
Zoom in on Sitting Bull's cities and look for a Library
Save and the start and end of each turn

Stopping point

Anyone has alphabet
See a warfist!
Peter or Sitting Bull demands gold?
Either SB or Peter's map is quite expensive
Exploration galley finds passage to other AI near Peter's islands
Reach start of T105


**Edit**
100% Done
End of T105 Test Game attached so people can compare to their favored ideas or copy parts they like.

Plan for Maoi is:
T106 - Whale City
T107 - Canal City
T108 - Profit City
T109 - Cow City
T110 - Whale City
T111 - Silver City (whip Courthouse T109 and put in queue, whip and produce monastery T109, produce courthouse T110, overflow waterfall lands in Moai T111)
T112 - Clam City
T113 - Canal City overflow + chop 2N2W of City
T114 - ???
T115 - Profit City finishes Moai

Fixed Shepherd micro in PPP
 

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