[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

This feels right. Now galley3 can attend to the muskets east of ClamCity.
Peter Galley can meet white culture AI, and spread to Vlad.
The galley near whales can come down and take muskets from profit island to the mainland.
no new missionary.
build wealth more now that we cut some of the merchants.

I think we will be very happy we hit SB hard and quick in the case where we decide to kill everyone else.
And at least we get WestPoint started even if we go diplo/religious win.
I'm not sure we can get to him before longbows tho.

Perhaps the new AI will have Calendar for us?

Or we can just steal it from SB with a spy.

Then we can DOW earlier.
SB can start Feudalism whenever he wants.

 

[WastinTime]

I don't want to steal Cal.
Either another AI or Peter, or possibly when we have him down to 1 city and he's all pillaged, we do peace for calendar and kill him later. We'll figure something out. Mostly likely Peter will throw it in a deal. Maybe on the turn we bulb Biology, we trade Econ for Optics + calendar.

 

[WastinTime]

Then we can DOW earlier.
SB can start Feudalism whenever he wants.

Right, It might be a race!
DoW with just one Musket and start pillaging (we will bribe him into caste/pacifism first of course)

 

[Kaitzilla]

Right, It might be a race!
DoW with just one Musket and start pillaging (we will bribe him into caste/pacifism first of course)

How hard do we want to hit Sitting Bull?

Killing the 2 scouts in our land would be good great general xp due to Great Wall.

Cow City has forests to chop for a quick Catapult.
So does Canal City. Perhaps a double chop Spy there.

Cow City is a bit short of food to support a 2 pop whip and still reach 600GPP sadly.

Capital is best places to produce a 3xp cata naturally.


Sitting Bull has multiple galleys, so he could really hurt us at sea if we get bad rolls.
Losing Canal City guarded by a Warrior would be game over, and getting blockaded might ruin Canal 1200GPP.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Let’s say we’re getting 1.5 beaker multiplier on our raw beakers. Except for Astro, it’s then x1.2 = 1.8.

So a GM yields 1500 x 1.8 = 2700 final beakers. A GS bulb is capped at about 1700 final b.

Another factor is a 1000 GP means 2000 (sci) beakers or 1000g + 1000b (merch). So ideally we get GMs earlier, unless we need the gold.

This holds true in this scenario because we’re always going to need more gold to run 100%, right? (100,000+ beakers)

GSes suck in this scenario because we’re pop-limited. The only benefit of GSes is instant beakers.

To get Bio fastest we should optimize by using the fewest GSes possible, built latest unless we need gold to run a 100% slider.

The more GMs we can build without compromising our Bio target, the faster we tech to the end.

Note: Yeah, I get there are lots of limitations with our polluted gene pools. Basic point: GM > GS for end game.

 

[Mitchum]

Sitting Bull has multiple galleys, so he could really hurt us at sea if we get bad rolls.
Losing Canal City guarded by a Warrior would be game over, and getting blockaded might ruin Canal 1200GPP.

Yes, we need to be very careful. A galley with units could take Canal which would hurt a lot. We need to control the seas over there, right?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Yes, we need to be very careful. A galley with units could take Canal which would hurt a lot. We need to control the seas over there, right?

Just looking at Poverty Point now, I'd be itching to attack amphibiously with 2 Muskets.
Maybe bribe Russia to DOW Sitting Bull 1st.

Spoiler :

+50% defense doesn't matter a lot for Archers.
Even with all those bonuses adding up to +190% for the Archer in the city and +50% more for amphibious attack, it would be a 9.9 Musket twice vs. a 10.2 Archer with 1-2 First Strikes.

Taking the city would autoraze it and both Galleys would die.

Of course, it would be about 18 turns from now unless we got Optics and circumnavigation bonus to speed up our ships.

The reality is that Sitting Bull will probably get Longbows or a bunch more Archers + Catapults by the time we are ready to DOW, but then again this is Emperor, and we might get lucky.
Poverty Point might have 40% or 50% cultural defenses in 18 turns.

2 Galleys and 2 Triremes should be enough sea power to defend Clam City from blockades I think?
The problem is defending against 2 fronts, the north and the south.

A Musket in Canal City defending with Walls would be almost unkillable.

We could trade for Archery + Horseback Riding, build a Stable in capital, then crank out 50% withdrawal Horse Archers.
That might make weakening cities, pillaging, and hammering away Catapults easier.

Poverty Point and Cahokia the capital are the main production centers for Sitting Bull.
Take away 1 or both and SB is crippled.


Everything in the Sitting Bull war is to support the goal of getting a Great General to unlock Heroic Epic and West Point.

 

[MirrorGuard]

PPP T127~T134
using GPP here.



Golden Age:T128 use great artist from music

Civic Switch: T128 caste+mercantilism+pacifism

Research
T127 music
*T128 economics
*T129 economics
*T130 economics
T131 nationalism
T132 nationalism
T133 nationalism
T134 nationalism

Workers:

Heretic
T127~130 wheat fort
*T131~ move into plains forest 2N2E of clams and road it

Phillip
T127~T129 move to wheat and build fort and stop
T130 road fort
T131 move to plainshill SW of fort
T132 move into forest plains 3N of clams
*T133~ move into tundrahill forest NE of clams and road it


Joan Dark
T127~T129 move to wheat and road 1t and stop
T130~T131 move to forest plains 3N of clams city
*T132~T133 road 2N of clams city
*T134~ build workshop 2N of clams

Shepherd
T127 cancel the order made earlier
T127~T129 cottage 1N science and STOP!
T130~T132 cottage 1N1W science and STOP
*T133~ workshop 2E of cows

Rex
T127 move to plainshill 1S2E of cows
T128~T130 road tundra river 2E of cows
*T131 farm NE of cows and stop
*T132~ farm 2N of cows

Cowboy
*T127 - T130 Road silver
T131 - T133 Road 1S of deer
T134~ build silver mine

Cities
check food surplus and great person point every turn for each city.

science
avoid growth ON
T127 NE 0 sci 32/38+3f 49gp 88+44
T128 NE 1 citizen 35/38+3f 52gp 132+67
T129 NE 3 sci 38/38+0 active tiles:2 farms 1 gem 1 horse 61gp 129+52
T130 wealth 6 sci 38-4 103gp
T131 wealth 6 sci 34-4 202gp
T132 wealth 6 sci 30-4 301gp
T133 wealth 8 sci 26-8 400gp(GP 400)
T134 wealth 8 sci 18-8 126gp


cows
build wealth and run *Merchants
T127 wealth 0 28/38f+6 60gp
T128 wealth 3 34/38f+3 62gp
T129 wealth 7 37/38f-5 95gp
T130 wealth 7 32/38f-5 175gp
T131 wealth 7 27/38f-5 255gp
T132 wealth 7 22/38f-5 335gp
T133 wealth 7 17/38f-5 415gp
T134 wealth 7 12/38f-5 495gp

canal
T127 wealth 1 sci 36/44f+7 155gp
T128 culture 6 artists 43/44f-1 160gp
T129 wealth 10 sci 42-9f 220gp(GP 200)
T130 wealth 10 sci 33-7f 132gp
T131 wealth 10 sci 26-7f 244gp
T132 wealth 10 sci 19-7f 356gp
T133 wealth 10 sci 12-7f 468gp
T134 wealth 9 sci 5-5f 580gp(GP 500)
...

silver
T127 wb 2 sci 28/44f+5 14gp
T128 wb 9 sci 33/44f-5 20gp
T129 wb 10 sci 28-9f 101gp
T130 wb 10 sci 19-7f 206gp
T131 wb 9 sci 12-3f 311gp(GP 300)
T132 wb 9 sci 9-3f 105gp
T133 wb 9 sci 6-3f 199gp
T134 wb 9 sci 3-3f 293gp

profit city
starting building wb when Peter starts teching optics
T127 wealth 0 specialist 26/34f+6 100gp
T128 wealth 1 mer 32/34f+6 103gp
T129 wealth 7 mer 21/36f-6 121gp
T130 wealth 7 mer 15/36f-6 205gp
T131 wealth 7 mer 9/36f-6 289gp
T132 wealth 5 mer 3/36f-2 373gp
T133 wealth 3 mer 1/36f+2 436gp
T134 wealth 5 mer 3/36f-2 478gp


whales city
T127 the Parthenon work coast*2 horse silver to grow 34/38
T128 the Parthenon 4 sci work on coast+horse+silver+fur+3*seafood 19/40
T129 wealth 8 sci 18/40f-4 36gp
T130 wealth 8 sci 14/40f-3 127gp
T131 wealth 8 sci 11/40f-3 218gp
T132 wealth 8 sci 8/40f-3 309gp
T133 wealth 8 sci 5/40f-3 400gp
T134 wealth 6 sci 2/40f+1 491gp

clams
build wealth
T127 1 sci 19/40f+5 24gp
T128 6 sci 24/40f-2 27gp
T129 6 sci 22/40f-2 81gp
T130 6 sci 20/40f-2 144gp
T131 6 sci 18/40f-2 207gp
T132 6 sci 16/40f-2 270gp
T133 6 sci 14/40f-2 333gp
T134 8 sci 12/40f-6 396gp

Units
missionary 8
T127 board galley 1
T128 spread Confu to Vlad
*Only if no Tao in Vlad. Otherwise stay onboard and go back. Spread to Iron Island

Galley 2(near Peter)
T127~T128 get missionary to Vlad
*T129~ return to 2W of whales for G.merchant pickup.

**Galley 1 (near Whale City)
T127 - T131 Sail to 3S3E of Silver City and wait
T133 - Load Great Merchant from Galley 2 and take it to 1S1E of Silver City
T134 - Sail into Silver City and drop off Great Merchant, then sail to 1S1E of Silver City
T135 - T139 Sail to 3S of Cow City

**Galley 3 (south of Cow City)
T127 - T131 Sail to 4W3N of Cow City and wait
T133 - Pick up Great Merchant and sail 2N2W. Unload Great Merchant into Galley 2
T134 - Sail back to 4W3N of Cow City
T135 - T137 Sail to 3S of Cow City and pick up Great Person for 2nd Golden Age
T138 - T139 Sail to 1N1E of Profit City and pick up 2nd Great Person for 2nd Golden Age
T140 - Trigger 2nd Golden Age with both great people, then take Muskets from Profit and sail for Sitting Bull.

**Great Merchant (born in Science City on T131 from teching Economics)
T131 - Move to 1E of Cow City
T132 - Move to 3N2W of Cow City
T133 - Move into Galley 3 4W3N of Cow City, sail 2NW, unload into Galley 1, sail 2NW
T134 - Sail into Silver City and move to 1S1E of Whales
T135 - Move into Galley 2 2W of Whale City and sail to Vlad

200GPP (born in Canal City)
T129 - T135 Move to deer tile 2S1E of Cow City

300GPP (Great Scientist born in Silver City)
T131 - March for Sitting Bull's land to spy. Eventually it will bulb something.

400GPP (98% Great Scientist born in Science City)
T133 - If Great Artist, move to deer tile. If Great Scientist, head for Sitting Bull's land to spy.

500GPP (94% Great Scientist born in Canal City)
T134 - If Great Spy, move to deer tile. If Great Scientist, head for Sitting Bull's land to spy.

Trireme 1
move towards canal city for naval defense

Trireme 2
*go along with Trireme 1



Diplomacy
T127 banking to Peter for *compass+35g+slavery+org
*on the same turn sell Literature for all of Peter's gold
*T127 renegotiate fur deal to SB for 2gpt

Don't renegotiate Rice with Peter.
If he asks us to cancel deals with SB, discuss with the team.
Give in to any Peter demand except:
Gold demand will be discussed with team
Everything else is a probably Yes including Paper or our map(e.g. if Tao spread and he demanded switch we'd DENY that)


Every turn
Check if Confu/Tao spread somewhere
Check for fist
pause and Save at the end of each turn
EP spending on Peter just enough to keep eyes on research
*watch that SB doesn't have a galley north of Canal. We need to know if we need to defend that direction.
*check the number of hammers in what Moscow is building(harbor)



Stopping point
Peter or Sitting Bull demands , pause and discuss with team the amount
*
Peter switches back to Taoism
Something unexpected happens
begin T135

 

[WastinTime]

Cows. We could still run Merchants and try to get a GM. We need the money from the merchants anyway.
We will need some cash when sushi starts. We won't have any banks, WallSt. etc up yet and we won't be getting much conquer gold at that time.
Later, we will have ways to support our expenses making an excess of GM's not very useful.

Then the GM just takes it's own sweet time walking to Silver. The Peter galley can pickup at whales and sail all the way to Peter, skipping IronIsland.

That'd be back to Econ, Nat, GunP. Maybe Peter does GunPowder?

 

[WastinTime]

Cowboy
T127~T132 climb up tundrahill silver and mine it

road it too

Other roads:
Let 's not road to Canal, like ever. Assume we have 1 galley to pass units from Clams-4E
So let's road Clams-2N, NE (tundrahillforest) 2N2E (forest), 1N3E (hill)
That will allow units to flow from Cows, Science, Profit, and Clams

 

[WastinTime]

Every turn: watch that SB doesn't have a galley north of Canal. We need to know if we need to defend that direction.
A Trireme blockade at SB's Clams-1W prevents any of his galleys from sailing around it.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Can our trireme blockade Poverty Point without being at war, such that we have OBs but his naval can’t enter the tile where our trireme is?

 

[WastinTime]

Our GM can get to Moscow, at the lastest, T149. That's with no circumnav bonus.
So, we need Rex to do only 2t on the tundrariver road, and Shepherd has to do 1t.
Why? because Rex has to move T130 to Cows-3N2W and road T131-132 for the GM who can move to Cows-4N3W on T132.

Or, we forget about the last Dun trick and Rex can road the hill at Cows-2N1S. No help from Shep needed.
We probably would rather just whip a sushi exec vs Dun+chops. It's 1 anger either way. And it's not like we can pre-whip the Dun cus we (ideally) won't have slavery before we have sushi. So exec isn't any faster using the Dun.
We can always pillage the Deer instead of the road to do the Dun trick.

Rex: then hook up another Fur while you're there.
Nah, we would have SB's Fur back.
Probably 2 workshops for Cows, then it's time for preserves already.

Phil, Joan, Heretic: after wheat, and after roading Clams area, add 3 workshops.

 

[WastinTime]

Once Sushi is established + 10 turns to grow to happy cap after whipping stuff,
Silver and Clams can run 10 merchants each. (market, grocer, bank, WallSt)

Silver: 58 x 2 = 116
Clams 30 x 3 = 90
+206gpt

 

[Kaitzilla]

Can our trireme blockade Poverty Point without being at war, such that we have OBs but his naval can’t enter the tile where our trireme is?

No, open borders is open borders.
We would need a Privateer to do that.

Uhh, is the Great Merchant and Economics after Music back on?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Every turn: watch that SB doesn't have a galley north of Canal. We need to know if we need to defend that direction.
A Trireme blockade at SB's Clams-1W prevents any of his galleys from sailing around it.

Could a perpetual naval blockade at SB’s future Ivory City prevent building War Elephants elsewhere? Or do we have to be at war. I don’t use blockades.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Could a perpetual naval blockade at SB’s future Ivory City prevent building War Elephants elsewhere? Or do we have to be at war. I don’t use blockades.

A war automatically would cut off the SB supply of ivory since the trade route passes through our coastal waters.

A blockade in neutral waters with no war?
I'm not sure.

 

[WastinTime]

Uhh, is the Great Merchant and Economics after Music back on?

I say we roll the dice for one extra. We may not get it.

 

[WastinTime]

is the Great Merchant and Economics after Music back on?

As I pointed out, once sushi is well established (~T170-ish), we can build some wealth again, and run merchants to cover our expenses.
We are using build wealth to survive the next 20 turns.(with help from Tech trade for some gold, pillage, conquer a city.)

But then we have 20 turns where we really could use 1500 T148-168
If we don't get a GM, we might have to consider wonderbread on something T160-ish. Heroic Epic?

 

[Mitchum]

I feel like we need to pick up the pace just a bit. MG, what is your plan for updating the PPP and playing?