Whether the mod is right or not, and whether SB got +1 puny or not, Peter went to Pleased with +3 shared religion.
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices
- Thread starter AlanH
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LowtherCastle
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Right. My point is, I’m thinking that already included the puny +1. Our new Mod interface just didn’t show it.
So IF we could get Peter to lose the puny +1, he would drop to Cautious. That’s my theory. If we knew where France was, I’d bust out Klarius’ attitude calculator.
Ok, I'll test the mod out tonight
Scores to beat are 733 and 735, so jumping 2 in rank would not be a problem.
There is some confusion for sure tho. Let me see if I can clear it up with some more code diving.
There is some confusion for sure tho. Let me see if I can clear it up with some more code diving.
I see what you're saying. I think the mod is supposed to show the previously hidden +1.
The error must be that it didn't show +1 on 141.
The bug in the mod probably looks at visible rank instead of all-civ rank.
I will perform the "+1 your small civ is no threat" diplo testing here.
Test 1 (Is the +1 diplo "small civ" instantaneous?)
Using Mansa who has a BetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange of 4, he will give +1 diplo "small civ no threat" bonus to any civ 2 ranks lower on the scoreboard with 6AI + Player on a map.
Being 1 rank behind and all civs met with each other, "small civ" bonus is off.
Then attitude is adjusted to be very close to Pleased.
Changed the scoreboard rank to 2 ranks behind Mansa, and he goes to Pleased.
Spoiler :
Yes, the +1 diplo due to "small civ is no threat" bonus is instantaneous.
Test 2 (Is the +1 diplo "small civ" bonus independent of how many AI have been met?)
Rewinding Test 1 a bit so that no AI have met each other and the player has met only Mansa, we run the same 2 tests.
Spoiler :
Yes, even though we have not met Joao, once he gets ahead of us on the scoreboard Mansa gives us the +1 diplo for "small civ is no threat"
Test 3 (Does Buffy .005 only show the +1 diplo "small civ" bonus once the AI ahead of the player on the scoreboard is met?)
Repeat the same testing with Buffy .005
Spoiler :
Yes, Buffy only displays the +1 diplo bonus after we met the AI.
If we have not met the AI, the +1 diplo is there, but Buffy does not show it.
Test 4 (Is it possible to get more than +1 diplo "small civ" bonus from a pushover like Mansa?)
Spoiler :
Yes, it is possible to get more than +1 diplo if the rank difference and BetterRankDifferenceAttitude are both extreme.
Note that Buffy again can only display what the player can see.
There is a hidden +3 diplo bonus with Mansa, but Buffy does not show it until more AI than Mansa are met.
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Good work, the mod interface was just not showing the +1 "small civ no threat" bonus that was there until we met the AI.
Buffy is really good at not showing hidden information (except city co-ordinates).
Just like how we don't know how many cities the AI have due to One City Challenge removing our option to get AI cities in the trade screen.
The "puny plan" is back on, with no Peter war and Metal Casting for Nationhood with Sitting Bull.
Sitting Bull should drop back to Cautious with Peter if we can move him up 1 or 2 ranks on the scoreboard with tech gifts.
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Yeah, I knew this from reading the code. I was saving this little nugget for a surprise, off-topic discussion of how to exploit this in other games. Think 17 opponents.
The bonus has no limit other than the 17 civ limit. But, I'm glad you tested it.
Keep in mind, there's also a 'worserankattitudechange'
With 17 civs, the divisor is 19 right?
It seems to scale with opponents to keep anything too extreme from occuring.
Wait, does adding colonies increase the divisor during the game?
I think the only civ that gives bonus Diplo for the player being the top on the scoreboard is Willem, but I've never looked.
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oh yeah, the extra civs works against you. No exploit there.
Does our +3 shared civic bonus decay?
Testing indicates... YES
It decays 0.1 each turn, just as it builds 0.1 each turn.
Good news though.
Once we max out on "shared civic bonus", it appears to keep building up without any increase in +diplo.
These buffer turns then get eaten by the decay when we don't share the AI's favorite civic.
How many turns have we shared Bureaucracy with Peter before going into Nationhood for 10 turns?
Looks like Peter was bribed into Bureau on T102.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/#post-15740427
We then left Bureau during our 1st golden age on T135.
We are gong back to Bureau on T148.
+2 shared civic was reached with Peter on T112.
+3 shared civic was reached with Peter on T122.
T135 got us +13 buffer turns.
T148 lost us 13 buffer turns.
Conclusion:
We should still be +3 shared civics diplo with Peter when we switch back to Bureaucracy T148, barely.
(unless the buffer turns cap at 10 or somesuch)
Friendly Tao Peter on the critical turn T148 (Engineering trade) should still be possible without Peter being at war with Sitting Bull.
Testing indicates... YES
It decays 0.1 each turn, just as it builds 0.1 each turn.
Good news though.
Once we max out on "shared civic bonus", it appears to keep building up without any increase in +diplo.
These buffer turns then get eaten by the decay when we don't share the AI's favorite civic.
How many turns have we shared Bureaucracy with Peter before going into Nationhood for 10 turns?
Looks like Peter was bribed into Bureau on T102.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/#post-15740427
We then left Bureau during our 1st golden age on T135.
We are gong back to Bureau on T148.
+2 shared civic was reached with Peter on T112.
+3 shared civic was reached with Peter on T122.
T135 got us +13 buffer turns.
T148 lost us 13 buffer turns.
Conclusion:
We should still be +3 shared civics diplo with Peter when we switch back to Bureaucracy T148, barely.
(unless the buffer turns cap at 10 or somesuch)Friendly Tao Peter on the critical turn T148 (Engineering trade) should still be possible without Peter being at war with Sitting Bull.
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Next item, what are the odds Peter trades Sitting Bull Feudalism to screw us over?
It is not a huge deal unless Peter plays before Sitting Bull in between T146 and T147 and trades him Feudalism for
.
Something like that might be how an AI gets Longbow upgrades on the same turn they complete Feudalism?
Obviously we don't DOW T146 if we see Longbows.
It is not a huge deal unless Peter plays before Sitting Bull in between T146 and T147 and trades him Feudalism for
.Something like that might be how an AI gets Longbow upgrades on the same turn they complete Feudalism?
Obviously we don't DOW T146 if we see Longbows.
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and we can always bribe in to war after he has Eng for instant +1
Chicken. I probably still would. Let's stop and discuss if that happens.
The drafting, whipping, teching, and worker schedule will be a bit hard to draw up without the test game.
The 2 forests north of Science City give +9
each outside our borders. The southern forest is 20.
Which to chop?
Here is the look at drafting.
The city order and the 5 cities getting +3 from Representation are kind of hard to juggle as the populations drop.
T145 Real Game Empire screenshots
Silver City will birth a Great Scientist on T147 and Whale City a 89% Great Scientist on T148.
Cow City can grow 1 pop at any time and regain the +3 Rep. bonus.
The anger decay is:
Science City has no anger to decay.
Canal City loses its final whip anger in 1 turn.
Whale City loses whip anger in 4 turns and then another whip anger 10 turns after that.
Silvery City loses its final whip anger in 2 turns.
Clam City loses its draft anger in 3 turns.
Cow City loses draft anger in 3 turns.
Profit City loses draft anger in 3 turns and then another draft anger 10 turns after that.
The 2 forests north of Science City give +9
each outside our borders. The southern forest is 20.Which to chop?
Here is the look at drafting.
The city order and the 5 cities getting +3
from Representation are kind of hard to juggle as the populations drop.T145 Real Game Empire screenshots
Spoiler :
Silver City will birth a Great Scientist on T147 and Whale City a 89% Great Scientist on T148.
Cow City can grow 1 pop at any time and regain the +3
Rep. bonus. The anger decay is:
Science City has no anger to decay.
Canal City loses its final whip anger in 1 turn.
Whale City loses whip anger in 4 turns and then another whip anger 10 turns after that.
Silvery City loses its final whip anger in 2 turns.
Clam City loses its draft anger in 3 turns.
Cow City loses draft anger in 3 turns.
Profit City loses draft anger in 3 turns and then another draft anger 10 turns after that.
If Canal drafts twice, it will lose the Rep. bonus and have 1 angry citizen.
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don't forget, you will probably we whipping 3 pop in many cities T148 to fix the anger issues.
maybe we can't start whipping all cities 148. We kinda need to try to keep 2 scientists/city in our libraries until we get Liberalism and maybe even Astronomy. Maybe we should whip at the last moment. Like whip the forge, but not the courthouse, the turn before sushi spreads. Then execs as needed, then the last few courthouses after Astronomy.
I'm imagining we draft as many units as our happiness allows, and then we need something for the army to do, so Astronomy ASAP.
Astronomy is probably 4 turns IF we get a GS from Whales. If not, it could be 9? turns (so that's like T158-163). Can we get SB down to 1 city by T158? or earlier?
In the case of draft anger, probably whip the forge earlier. Do you need any help Kait? Or shall I just wait for your glorious plans to be unveiled?
I'm imagining we draft as many units as our happiness allows, and then we need something for the army to do, so Astronomy ASAP.
Astronomy is probably 4 turns IF we get a GS from Whales. If not, it could be 9? turns (so that's like T158-163). Can we get SB down to 1 city by T158? or earlier?
In the case of draft anger, probably whip the forge earlier. Do you need any help Kait? Or shall I just wait for your glorious plans to be unveiled?
That's the plan: bulb Bio, trade for Cal, bulb Astron.
But we have to draft 147, 148...or in the case of Canal, 145, 146
