[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

why do you want that Cat so badly? with trebs coming? It costs us a population in Science...among other things.

Which pop? it is slow built with no whipping.
Cats are cheap, and with just 1 more xp it becomes a bombarding machine

A lot of games I'd rather have 2 catapults for 100 than 1 trebuchet for 80 against a defensive monster like Sitting Bull.
Trebs are for creaming the top unit and surviving long enough to get promoted to Cannon.

Low promotion Trebs just melt and die against highly promoted Longbows, and each city Emperor Sitting Bull city will probably only be defended by 2 or 3 defenders, so the collateral damage is not big either.

I've fought defensive civs before and lost so many trebs my eyes bled, but once I switched to cheap 50 catapults I had much better success.
Here are the collateral damage tables I use.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...p-for-me-to-play.620140/page-15#post-15267784

really? why isn't it 20 + 25% = 25 per pop. 4 pop for exec.
(not that I want to cold-whip anyway)

I'm not sure either.
It is what the test game showed when I put in a Forge and tried to whip a Sushi Exec. right away.

 

[WastinTime]

Cats are cheap, and with just 1 more xp it becomes a bombarding machine

treb is twice as fast at bombard.
I get your argument for a cat instead of treb. I don't really want to debate. I'm fine with a cat.
But regarding the pop loss, you're using the OF from forge to build it so the nat park is 4 pop whip instead of 3 pop.
And whipping a wonder isn't ideal, but seems important to get out before the exec whip. I just want to reduce the #

 

[Kaitzilla]

How would Science look with a forge?
It pays for itself, I just didn't want to whip one right now, and it didn't make sense to whip one after NatPark and sushi exec. But build one?

145-149 forge built naturally with max OF

Now NatPark whips are 40

152 NP 120/300
153 NP 152/300
154 NP 184/300, 3 pop whip
155 sushi exec
156 2 pop whip exec

I think I see it now.
You are doing 2 chops in capital here instead of 1 yes?
The chop lands T149, so it will be penalized by the Forge completing unless we delay chop to T150

Let me count some stuff.

Which cities should build siege for our war of extermination?

 

[WastinTime]

You are doing 2 chops in capital here instead of 1 yes?

just one chop I think, but I didn't get very detailed. I was using your numbers (like 24 OF) and I'm not sure exactly how to get that.

28 x 4 turns is 112, not sure if that can get up to 116-ish
I wouldn't mind seeing 2 chops and 2 pop whip. Maybe Nat Park 1 turn later.

As you said the NP is only 3 free specialists on turn 1, so a delay to keep the capital larger might be worth it. I still kinda wanna draft Science. It has the spare happy. So many tradeoffs.

Science could probably build a siege after NP. But I thought Plan A was to just use Frigates mainly.

 

[Kaitzilla]

just one chop I think, but I didn't get very detailed. I was using your numbers (like 24 OF) and I'm not sure exactly how to get that.

28 x 4 turns is 112, not sure if that can get up to 116-ish
I wouldn't mind seeing 2 chops and 2 pop whip. Maybe Nat Park 1 turn later.

As you said the NP is only 3 free specialists on turn 1, so a delay to keep the capital larger might be worth it. I still kinda wanna draft Science. It has the spare happy. So many tradeoffs.

Science could probably build a siege after NP. But I thought Plan A was to just use Frigates mainly.

Ya, but Frigates don't really arrive on the scene until the T160's.
Our Muskets will be slow toppling cities after T147 Poverty Point burns without any siege facing Longbows.

In other news, our cities can still build Warriors and regular Archers

 

[Kaitzilla]

just one chop I think, but I didn't get very detailed. I was using your numbers (like 24 OF) and I'm not sure exactly how to get that.

28 x 4 turns is 112, not sure if that can get up to 116-ish
I wouldn't mind seeing 2 chops and 2 pop whip. Maybe Nat Park 1 turn later.

As you said the NP is only 3 free specialists on turn 1, so a delay to keep the capital larger might be worth it. I still kinda wanna draft Science. It has the spare happy. So many tradeoffs.

Science could probably build a siege after NP. But I thought Plan A was to just use Frigates mainly.

How about:
T145 - 26 + 7 from overflow into Forge
T146 - 26 into Chariot
T147 - 24 into Forge (goes to 57/120)
T148 - 26 +9 from northern chop * 1.75 multiplier = +61 hammers into Forge (goes to 118/120)
T149 - 16 * 1.5 multiplier = 24 hammers into Chariot (goes to 50/30)
T150 - 16 +13 from overflow *1.75 multiplier = 50 hammers into Forge (goes to 168/120)
T151 - National Park 24 overflow + 20 chop + 16 natural production * 2 multiplier = +120
T152 - National Park (120/300) 16*2 = +32
T153 - National Park (152/300)
T154 - 3-pop whip National Park (184/300)

We do 2 chops, get a Chariot, and 3-pop whip National Park complete T154.
Chops land T148 and T151.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Serfdom?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Serfdom?

If only it did not compete with Slavery!

I'm gonna take a break for a bit.
Will redraw and add to the PPP later tonight.

Might just plan and play in 2 turn chunks this time once all the advanced stuff like Science City is planned out.

I'd hate to make a perfect plan and watch it go poof if Peter slips a turn on Engineering because he lost seven +3 trade routes with Sitting Bull because our war severed them T146.

 

[WastinTime]

T146 - 26 into Chariot

We can do 26 without OrgRel bonus?

 

[WastinTime]

I was looking at the code at iCaptureGold, and it calls a python function. Do we have the source code for that? I've never explored beyond the dll files.
Was hoping to find some secret way to get more gold. Kinda hoping we get extra for OCC auto-raze.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I was looking at the code at iCaptureGold, and it calls a python function. Do we have the source code for that? I've never explored beyond the dll files.
Was hoping to find some secret way to get more gold. Kinda hoping we get extra for OCC auto-raze.

Here's the code:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/pillage-formula-for-conquer-gold-on-city-capture.358900/

Note the two separate random numbers combine to make a probably distribution like a bell curve.
(Average amounts of from city capture is VERY common)

Rolling a single dice would have made a middle-of-the-road amount of appear as often as maximum possible gold or minimum gold.

 

[WastinTime]

Thx for the formula. I always thought there was a big jump once the city was 50 turns old, but it's just gradual increase and then capped so older than 50 turns is not helpful.
The important thing seems to be population. PP should pay well and it's great that we have him out of slavery.

Question: should we? can we? get the new world into Caste while we still have the ability to do so? Or will they just switch to slavery in 5 turns? Or is that only if they're at war?
At least non spiritual would get 2t of anarchy for the switches.

 

[Mitchum]

I don't think the AI would just switch back to Slavery in 5 turns but you never know. 2 turns of anarchy sounds like it would be worth it though even if they do switch back. What would we give them?

 

[WastinTime]

I don't think the AI would just switch back to Slavery in 5 turns but you never know. 2 turns of anarchy sounds like it would be worth it though even if they do switch back. What would we give them?

I'm not even sure if they have Code of Laws to make the switch. And we'd put them closer to Civil Service. Unlike SB, they have Iron.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Which cities should build siege for our war of extermination?

There is a payoff of time on target for our siege.

I'm now thinking the only siege we really need is 2 catapults from Clam City by T150.
T145 - T147 So it works 1 Workshop + Hill to build Barracks-> 17/50 Catapult
Then T148 2-pop whip Catapult and then do a 2nd Catapult on T149 outside golden age.
Both Catapults get on Galley T150, then galley chain to a 2nd galley, then galley chain to a 3rd galley and sail both 3xp Catapults to 1S1W of Sitting Bull's capital on T150.
Well, perhaps not to that extreme, but the catapults can certainly get over there fast.

Spoiler :

Just need 1 successful attack against any unit to get 4xp and the Catapult can double its bombard value.
**Edit**
Looks like completing a road 2E1N of Clam City will let a stronger naval attack of 2 Muskets from Clam + Canal sail with 2 Catas and land 1S of SB capital T151.
Or they can land 1N1E of Mound City T152.

 

[LowtherCastle]

There’s always the Dhoom Gambit of using an SB scout to harvest cat or treb xp. Once attacked (but not killed) the scout will remain stationary to heal so it can be attacked by our seige every turn.

Incidentally, an excellent variant is to gift a scout at the border pre-DoW for instant xp. There’s no limit to how many scouts you can gift — you can havest xp for your stack of 4 or 7 cats. Of course the AI can disband them IT.

Come to think of it, also a way to neutralize a scout so it doesn’t stand on our resource tiles

 

[Kaitzilla]

There’s always the Dhoom Gambit of using an SB scout to harvest cat or treb xp. Once attacked (but not killed) the scout will remain stationary to heal so it can be attacked by our seige every turn.

Incidentally, an excellent variant is to gift a scout at the border pre-DoW for instant xp. There’s no limit to how many scouts you can gift — you can havest xp for your stack of 4 or 7 cats.

!!!
Can we box a Scout into a corner with Warriors and Great Scientists?

Perhaps if we clobber Sitting Bull hard enough, we can sign a Cease Fire and run some shenanigans.
Then again, Sitting Bull takes the longest amount of time to talk after a DOW

Woo, if we pin a Scout in our territory and keep hitting it with a Catapult over and over, that is 2xp for Great General each turn.

**Edit**
If we close borders with Sitting Bull now, that scout teleports to 1W of wheat.

 

[WastinTime]

Then T148 2-pop whip Catapult

Recall that ClamCity has a long honey-do list. I'm thinking we can't burn 2 pop rt now.
Also remember we have to get Liberalism and Astronomy, so we need some scientists for a short time.

(draft)
Forge
Exec
courthouse
Bank
Wall St.
(Less urgently...)
Temple
Market
Eiffel

 

[Kaitzilla]

Argg, we need siege from somewhere!

 

[MirrorGuard]

gift a scout at the border pre-DoW for instant xp.

Unfortunately we can only build explorer.

Which cities should build siege for our war of extermination?

How about canal doing a 3-pop whip a treb for max overflow after forge?