[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Phoenix Rising

[Tonny]

still awake here

I agree with ending the war

AI do follow patterns with teching, but there's also a high randomness in the formula.
The tech flavor described in "know your enemy" points them in a general direction.

oki with lit + drama

yep, olive on compass to sal (gumbo wants this )

we can safely give hbr to lou... he has no horsies

can we infect munich with X and force it to be given back to Biz in a vote?

lit to lou also fine

ok on gifting to lou

with worker suggestions

 

[Fippy]

Yp this seems tricky, if we let relations drop too far with any AI how will we spread xtian.
War means we will get asked to join, and those penalties go away much slower.

Chucky, Sal and Louie give +1 shared tech after 10, it's doable with them later when we can gift any tech we have before we win anyways.

Working on finding out what they tech..takes some time.
Chucky techs nothing that we have, i think.

Biz techs Lit (~100 beakers from done)

Best combo that i can find is Currency & CoL & Drama & Lit.
Would make him start something else, if we want that.

Or Cur, Col and Calendar with keeping Lit for gold trade.

Oki so we want Drama and Lit traded?
2 votes, done.

Olive on compass gift to Sal (no gold) for trade mission harbor?

Interesting, Biz cautious again now with Chucky despite war declare.
We prolly should give Louie something too for his 10g, he misses lots of techs.
Biz down to 2 cities after i can see their map, Munich was captured by Chuck.
Sal has 4 cities.

Lit maybe for Louie? More wonder builds.
I will give Louie gems + silver to speed up that relation build, those resis can be reclaimed from other AIs if we need them (not currently).
Fine?

Not growing T, has -4 food in golden age and can use our bin.
We can get silver and gems back from other AIs if needed
Atm we only give 2 resis to Lou, 4 on other AIs, would work well.

Okay done with trading, looking at other stuff now.
I almost messed up V (double forge happy), glad warrior was there..

Donkey & Ed under Bibs.
Workers in general for chops (Bur in 3t).
Hmm suggesting Fred (wheat) for forest east of horsies, and other 2 finish workshop 1se (5h tile in golden age with guilds + caste later).
Wulfie (V farm) can take forest above wine.

Oki, Rambo should return home (possible GM transport).
Also bringing Boot down.
Actually Sly should really hurry, might get GM in 4t.
We got maps from west anyways from Biz.

Yup every chop goes into Uni, Ox, UoS and Obs.
New post.

 

[Gumbolt]

Could take Lymond a while to find the new page.

Be hard to reach +10 with other Ai without shared religions. Mil traditions could offer some help. Pacts come at their own risk.

Pacts are a free +2 near end. Albeit not sure if it gives negative elsewhere.

Not sure their techs matter that much? What can they really give us? Construction? Unless one is going for CS. I doubt it.

Would they trade it anyway?

He needs construction. So that would make sense. His war is pointless otherwise.

What would the AI normally tech next? Is this done on formula or do Ai stick to same tech patterns?

Keep them distracted from our wonders. So not too close to paper too soon. Same for nationalism. Maps would be great for German land view.

Ai very unreliable on gold. Germans teching quite fast now with wonders they have.

Olive on both. We want dat harbour.

I would split every vote.

3rd city prolly had no wall. He will be a target for other ai now he has lost a city.

Lit is cheap for 10g.

Why keep him alive?

Green on gifts.

HRE/Sal are war free at pleased.

All these worst enemy/ religion hits are killing our diplo. Will only get worse once Russian meet the other AI.

Is there any reason to save any bibs forest? UoS and Ox uni seem main goals. Uni too.

UoS actually provide us very little unless we spam temples. Ox Uni is a huge boost to bibs.

Looking good.

 

[lymond]

That is probably the most important point/factor, being able to spread X. It's not like we can plant gift X cities like in normal games. So that is probably the best reason to keep the peace and not lose OB with Chuckster.

Pacts are out except maybe near the end if all looks clear.

Currency, CoL, Drama and Lit to Biz will work
get his map too


not sure gold trade is reliable although ais tend to save more during war..still we have not seen much gold from anyone this game...we can always trade something like calendar if we see more gold

I'm green on Curr, CoL, Drama and Lit + his map

compass to Sal..yep

gumbo never votes when the vote is called

We are gonna have to keep Biz alive all game funny he was the first one to declare on HRE

green on HBR to Louie

well, not a specific reason really...He would vote for us eventually...easiest to like us. But if we switch him Confu then he will be a target to Sal and Chuck..

Lit is fine

are we not growing T? I'm not sure I trading away happies at this point..maybe one

ah oki...trade them

setup chops for Ox?

sounds good ...fine with all that

forest 2W of games prolly goes to Bibs too

I don't think so..key thing is fast Ox....UoS probably quite secure ..no ai with stone and not close to paper.

After Ox/UoS then Bibs is basically free for whatever for a long time..just the other little builds..dun/temple..and the Lab later

 

[Fippy]

Uploaded before end turn, always good to get those done.

Kermit on spread into Cahoki (no new ones)?
I took 1g from Bully for crabs (he has his own clams now).
He has 10g, not teching anything that we have it seems (tried with Caste switch and so on), green on giving him Aest for his gold?
Peter dropped to 16t guilds

Okay with 10g for Aest on SB, but do we want him in Caste too?
Hmm..guess no benefit.
Not adding Caste i think.

Uploaded before end turn again (2t to golden age).

Site acting up (loading errors), but ending turn.

 

[lymond]

Olive

you know I"m Kermit

doo eet

Not sure what Caste will do for SB....gives him anarchy which slows him. He as no food anyway. Also, he may run artists

Hunter

pete at +13 now..I think reli bonus maxxed

He can reach Louie currently, but I'd suspect Sal is next

 

[Tonny]

hit enter
cahoki for spread yup
keep trading away
kermit here
we trust you My... proceed
-----
imo arnie to go to the cara-chain spot already
i was thinking the same with donkey
ok on biz with clam for 1gpt
lit to chucky for 30
lit to sb for 10
and yep on furs exchange
i think we can wait with lou
we're chaining any mish from KS

 

[Gumbolt]

Olive

Secures him in religion I guess.

Aesth is an old tech now.

Were not waiting 16T! Unless he did a civic swap?

Let's not over work this.

HRE in war mode. haha. Worse than shaka.

Nothing obvious. Wonder who HRE will attack next? Sal or French?

Peter - Shared Religion Bonus - Up to +5 Relations (or +6 if Peter owns the Holy City)

Axes vs protective archers?

It's possible he is plotting on us. Now showing red as highest risk on military screen.

Yes site slow here.

Org is great news. He can build mish!

He changed civics due to feud. Too slow on CS for us.

30 for lit.

10 for lit from SB?

2SW is fine.

Munich could revolt back anyway.

Beware settler and galley from SB.

What mish are we chaining? Xtian?

Were past 1ad someone should have construction!

Avoid louie as worst enemy. Think we need to try and get HRE to pleased. Not sure if possible.

 

[Fippy]

Ugh Peter into OR and Vass, more delay on guilds.

Uploaded, we should make some trades there i think.
Arnie out of work.
Which forest should Donkey chop, 2sw? Will get into our borders in time.

1g from Biz i can play secure and take for clams.
Peter i could pick up with Furs, take them back from Sal.
30+10g for Lit each looks goody.

Just so i'm 100%, Arnie chain means west?
Moved 2sw and yup goes to Bibs.

We do anything about Louie 10g, or not worthwile?
Note Sal has Construction, but not trading ofc.
Sal can get furs back next turn (finishes at G).

Okay all done, green for golden age next turn + Bur switch, so you can see that in action or do we need to discuss?
Yep slavery when we hit xtian for 5t, at that point specialists bring in much less and good time.

Interesting before we go, G has 4c route with Berlin.

 

[lymond]

Arnie can get into mish transport chain position

Fine with all trades....not sure we want to drop a resource with Sal though yet

2SW fine..assume that goes to Bibs (20H?)

yep...W toward KS

depends on if we want to keep hitting chuck's diplo...I say ignore 10g for now

total greeness

told ya those routes should grow

 

[Tonny]

can't wait!

yup, no need to go 100% science here.

hbr to lou is ok

save techs for pete indeed

kermit

 

[Gumbolt]

No other civics we want? Losing caste would seem bad. Were not doing slavery yet.

Green

G is getting +10% for population.

Okay figured it out. You get 5% bonus for each pop above 10. Bibs has 5% bonus. G 10%.

I think it stacks. Berlin size 11 and G 12. So +15% but hidden?

Never noticed that before.

Yes but does not impact GM trade missions. That I know of.

CS for 40G?

AP 9 turns?

OX uni worth 73 science a turn in GA. Sweet.

 

[Fippy]

I have no idea what Peter is doing, 24t guilds that's bad..probably upgrading archers to longbows -.-
Anyways uploaded (NW can afford the mine and still meet GP goals).

100% science is very questionable without gold flow secured before Ox.
Louie 20g getting more tempting.
Ed sws forest should go to Bibs?

Oki merci for checking Ed.
AP 8t (increases at growth), and switch in 7t (last end of GA).
Slider at 0% (+133g).
All fine with HBR to Louie?
Cannot sell techs to Peter, need them for trade i think.
Will transport Leo when V GM or GS is cleared, if GM they chain towards Mecca.

Okay let's see GM or GS (then stop for today), Kermit?

 

[lymond]

told ya...pop mattahs

ha..well...I always wait for cities to grow to get more TM gold...ofc the pop and route value may be directly related

wow..really nice bump to AP production

HBR to Louie

pretty certain that would go to Bibs....directly S I know is Ts

it's Bibs (2S1W of Ed)

So GE should head to G now?

508 beakers..not bad

HBR ..yep

(we should keep in mind that there is still a reli out there to be founded)

Kermit!

 

[Gumbolt]

Kermit.

Assuming were willing to wait on guilds! Could take forever.

SB did something useful?

GM could be worth 1500 gold. Not bad at all.

Compass? Or MC? Do we want him near optics. Needs to be kept low tech now.

Doeit

15 beakers with obs but that is on golden age. With freemarket should help a bit.

Would we consider converting Germans to Conf?

Fail gold is good. We will have loads of gold soon.

They can dagger attack? He would have to declare first? He can't do that in his borders? Hmm

Unless it ended up in no mans land. Then he could attack it?

We either take x fail gold. Or we opt for long term science. 10-15 beakers a turn is more valuable then 150 fail gold? 100% science adds 200?

I think we need to gain science somewhere if we can spare the hammers. Right now gold is no issue. I thought were going 0% science?

Maybe take Sunday/Monday off? Pends how you feel?

Bit tired here.

Is the latest save uploaded?

 

[Fippy]

We indeed always get the big stuff on last turn..
GM (hmm.......) and SB has Construction.
Well we know that we run many turns of 100% science soon.

Drama, Compass, MC or Music are okay for SB trade.
Even MC needs gold added, only Music not.

I think we want MC + compass or drama, then gift Machinery so he might tech Engineering.
Drama + MC seems optimal.
We want Engineering possible asap imo, that also means selling Construction to Peter when we can.

Uploaded, GM on Rambo and we can think about the best path.
Leif joined us
I have V on Observatory for now, not sure how good that would be thou.

Crazy thought, could Charlie dow us just for GM capture?
Bibs will be fine for mishes, i underestimated it's hammers in GA..with chops other builds will be done in max. 10t.
G vs. T for next GP i need to test.
Yup true he has no open borders with other AIs, should be 100% safe.

Observatory gives +14 beakers, i mean sure we are in a golden age but those are buildings we may want to increase our science long term.
GA not affecting GS or traderoutes, so this gain would be rather stable.

I turned up science cos of GM, we can see about all this tomorrow or so (not sure if we play on weekends thou).
I think Peter slower on guilds doesn't matter anyways.
He will drop to pleased in 6t (xtian switch), so we can only trade in 11t earliest when we can switch back.
Means no merc, but i would rather take a big tech like guilds in trade than some extra GP (and TR loss) there.

Oki will check in tomorrow, nites

 

[lymond]

ha..we'll actually get something from SB

monopoly tech...I say Compass and Drama

MC+Drama I am green

I think best gotta be into Aachen then on Roads W toward Augsburg

Germs can tech Engi but they do not have it

V cold fail gold UoS some...not sure on Obs unless we really want them

or Pizza

ha..I don't think so but def not certain. GM should teleport back to KS somewhere or Sal/Biz land if once further W.

KS seems logical mish pump too..nothing to build there really except the little stuff.

KS should really have a harbor though

Bibs should def get a Obs...not sure on others....we can also knock out some of the dinky buildings like duns/temples
then build wealth
oh..and V does need that market too

anyway, we can sleep on those decisions....obs is a pretty big build but if we are set on building some of them then the sooner the better or not at all

ha....looks like we build Ox in 1t

I can be available some this weekend I think ....again, Monday is uncertain for me

and ton loves those calculations

Saving Bureau for Guilds

Nitey

 

[Tonny]

get SB and Pete ready for Engineering, yup
MC+Drama to SB is ok

I thougth V was set up for mish pump -> ok
Obs for V really helps yup

At least we're at a point we can use for testing and calculations.

time for bed.
Nighty Nites
Tomorrow seems fine by me to play some

 

[Gumbolt]

Can we switch him to bureau? That would get us +1 diplo?

Yep all good.

 

[Fippy]

Save should be uploaded (if we traded for Construction).
Yup it's there Gumbo.

Interesting on GM..ToA city without harbor 1300g, with harbor 1500g and with Bibs at size 12 1700g. 12 seems to be a magic number, and Bibs can reach it soon.

Wow..

Spoiler :

100% isn't 100%, and with GP this always happens.
One turn with 1 merchant by accident, 6 out of 800 points.

Some interesting numbers..With NE G gets the first artist at turn ~174, and the last GP at turn ~202 (wonder if this would still be okay, but we could do with just 1).
However it's not including anything we do very late like golden age or Civic swaps.

T can get 3rd golden age person on turn ~183 (this should be good enuf), so it's worth continuing there even when looking rough.

I used a gpp system that delayed NW and Trips in favor of G, will depend on what we want more (chance of late final GP or GS bulbs sooner).