TimBentley
Deity
Stockholm looked like it could have the prebuild.
SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
jeffelammar
Space for rent
I'm confused...
I thought that this was the original plan
1. CC uses Palace as prebuild for Internet
2. Trond builds TOE
3. Stav uses US as prebuild for Hoover
I thought that when the Celts built US that changed to
1. Stav uses TOE as prebuild for Hoover (change on interturn to avoid building TOE)
2. CC stays on Palace as Internet prebuild.
3. Trond builds something different as a TOE prebuild.
Is this not what is happening?
I thought that this was the original plan
1. CC uses Palace as prebuild for Internet
2. Trond builds TOE
3. Stav uses US as prebuild for Hoover
I thought that when the Celts built US that changed to
1. Stav uses TOE as prebuild for Hoover (change on interturn to avoid building TOE)
2. CC stays on Palace as Internet prebuild.
3. Trond builds something different as a TOE prebuild.
Is this not what is happening?
denyd
Emperor
That's what was happening, though there was nothing that would wait long enough in Trondheim. I switched to a Cruiser placeholder to let Jove figure out something. I actually slowed Channel City down by 3 turns once I had to struggle to get Electronics research to 4. My hope was that during the next tech trade with the Celts we'd pick up Military Tradition and could us the Military Academy as the TOE prebuild, but we might just pop out a couple of defenders in Tronheim and then start the TOE timed to complete about 1-2 turns into the Modern Era. Once the Iron Works is complete, we'll have 4 shield powerhouses, Trondheim, Stavinger, Channel City & Stockholm with Oslo & Aarhus also quite potent.
No, I was the confused one, and just really didn't want to blow it.
I agree, Hoover's in Stavanger, Internet in CC, and ToE in Trondheim.
I'm doing some starvation MM to pick up the extra beakers and preserve our workers as much as possible. It'll hurt our growth, but something has to give at this point. We'll keep 4-turn research without much sacrifice.
Looks like I'm ready to go. Hopefully I'll have a save for you all tomorrow.
I agree, Hoover's in Stavanger, Internet in CC, and ToE in Trondheim.
I'm doing some starvation MM to pick up the extra beakers and preserve our workers as much as possible. It'll hurt our growth, but something has to give at this point. We'll keep 4-turn research without much sacrifice.
Looks like I'm ready to go. Hopefully I'll have a save for you all tomorrow.
My vote is for Channel City building the palace to trade for the Internet when available and Trondheim building the TOE as soon as possible. We use whatever we can for a prebuild, squeezing out as many shields as possible before Hoover, and then giving Trondheim a bunch of shields to let it build TOE quickly. If we can get more shields out of Stockholm, then I'm okay with that option, but Trondheim is better. With Trondheim, TOE completes and then the Internet completes on the same turn. With a different TOE city, we'll have an additional turn of no research labs. We'll just need to coordinate the Internet and TOE builds with our research.
Joining workers now sounds good. We can build more later, as needed.
Disbanding drafted infantry to build infrastructure is a good plan, but we should be not disband any that we build, and we should build a lot of them. I'm with denyd on feeling a little uneasy about our military prowess.
Joining workers now sounds good. We can build more later, as needed.
Disbanding drafted infantry to build infrastructure is a good plan, but we should be not disband any that we build, and we should build a lot of them. I'm with denyd on feeling a little uneasy about our military prowess.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Jeffelammar_SG009_AD1250_01.SAV
Preflight: Make sure the wonders are ready as discussed in the thread.
Science to 90%, hire scientists at negative food in many places to keep research pace.
Rush aquaduct in New Rejkavik, 16g.
Draft just 1 infantry, in Utica, for aquaduct in Karasjok. Some core cities look convenient for drafting, but we should not draft in core cities where Ghandi will be busy later!
Switch Aarhus to courthouse in 1, start military there next turn.
Arrange boats for ship-chaining to all important points.
Trade Maps to Brennus for 25g.
Tweaks to speed up builds.
Ibt- Renew peace with Otto.
Bank-> Cruiser, Rejkavik. Various other builds.
Turn 1- Garrison Tromoso.
Join some workers into productive cities.
Mine around CC- gain 2 turns on Palace/Internet!
Ship Army to old America.
Limited drafting/disbanding. Ship a few workers to Spain. Switch freshwater courthouses there to markets so we can draft there later.
Ibt- Complete several infantry and a stock exchange.
Turn 2- Drop some Berserks at home. Worker moves. Drain Brennus of all cash with map trades.
OK, Electronics in 1, ToE->Hoover's in 1, Cruiser in 1. We'll waste 8 beakers. 88g @-85gpt. It's such a big deal, I'm going to pad it with a few more specialists, even though I know I don't need more... double check it again...
ibt- Learn Electronics. Mass Production next in an easy 4. Switch Stavanger to Hoover's, Trondheim to ToE. 7g to spare. Whew!
Turn 3-Hoover's in 5. ToE in 13, but hopefully it'll speed up just enough with Hoover's. But CC will speed up too... give some of CC's shields to Trondheim... ToE in 11.
Convert Science specialists to civil engineers all over.
Mass Production in 6 @+64gpt. Plan is to get it in 4 of course, just taking some profits and shields...
Draft/disband for 1 settler.
Ibt- Complete Ironworks in Stockholm.
Turn 4- Stockholm to 2-turn infantry. After Hoover's, we can get 1-turn units here
join/draft/disband 2 worker for settlers.
Ship-chain an infantry pair to Old America.
MP in 3 @+1gpt.
Ibt- complete some infantry, pollution at Stockholm.
Turn 5- Pretty much just worker actions.
Notes: I'm trying to set up ship chains from the mainland to both Old Spain and Old America. For it to really work we'll want to upgrade some galleons, if you can find the money.
- I've built a number of markets and have more on the way to permit massive drafting later. Check around, the general principle is markets where there's grass and fresh water. I haven't drafted out of Madrid, not sure if that'll be our capitol later... And again, I don't think we want to draft anywhere Ghandi will build something later.
- We still have 81 workers
- We need more settlers. I've been disbanding to get them. Brennus has quite a few ships, he may land a settler soon if we don't claim the land, especially in Spain.
-I have a few cruiser builds going. I'd feel more comfortable with some offensive naval units.
-Keep an eye on our wonder cities. Once we get Hoover's and our production jumps, we don't want to inadvertently finish a pre-build too soon.
- MP due in 2. It's a close shave, just watch it.
Preflight: Make sure the wonders are ready as discussed in the thread.
Science to 90%, hire scientists at negative food in many places to keep research pace.
Rush aquaduct in New Rejkavik, 16g.
Draft just 1 infantry, in Utica, for aquaduct in Karasjok. Some core cities look convenient for drafting, but we should not draft in core cities where Ghandi will be busy later!
Switch Aarhus to courthouse in 1, start military there next turn.
Arrange boats for ship-chaining to all important points.
Trade Maps to Brennus for 25g.
Tweaks to speed up builds.
Ibt- Renew peace with Otto.
Bank-> Cruiser, Rejkavik. Various other builds.
Turn 1- Garrison Tromoso.
Join some workers into productive cities.
Mine around CC- gain 2 turns on Palace/Internet!
Ship Army to old America.
Limited drafting/disbanding. Ship a few workers to Spain. Switch freshwater courthouses there to markets so we can draft there later.
Ibt- Complete several infantry and a stock exchange.
Turn 2- Drop some Berserks at home. Worker moves. Drain Brennus of all cash with map trades.
OK, Electronics in 1, ToE->Hoover's in 1, Cruiser in 1. We'll waste 8 beakers. 88g @-85gpt. It's such a big deal, I'm going to pad it with a few more specialists, even though I know I don't need more... double check it again...
ibt- Learn Electronics. Mass Production next in an easy 4. Switch Stavanger to Hoover's, Trondheim to ToE. 7g to spare. Whew!
Turn 3-Hoover's in 5. ToE in 13, but hopefully it'll speed up just enough with Hoover's. But CC will speed up too... give some of CC's shields to Trondheim... ToE in 11.
Convert Science specialists to civil engineers all over.
Mass Production in 6 @+64gpt. Plan is to get it in 4 of course, just taking some profits and shields...
Draft/disband for 1 settler.
Ibt- Complete Ironworks in Stockholm.
Turn 4- Stockholm to 2-turn infantry. After Hoover's, we can get 1-turn units here
join/draft/disband 2 worker for settlers.
Ship-chain an infantry pair to Old America.
MP in 3 @+1gpt.
Ibt- complete some infantry, pollution at Stockholm.
Turn 5- Pretty much just worker actions.
Notes: I'm trying to set up ship chains from the mainland to both Old Spain and Old America. For it to really work we'll want to upgrade some galleons, if you can find the money.
- I've built a number of markets and have more on the way to permit massive drafting later. Check around, the general principle is markets where there's grass and fresh water. I haven't drafted out of Madrid, not sure if that'll be our capitol later... And again, I don't think we want to draft anywhere Ghandi will build something later.
- We still have 81 workers
- We need more settlers. I've been disbanding to get them. Brennus has quite a few ships, he may land a settler soon if we don't claim the land, especially in Spain.
-I have a few cruiser builds going. I'd feel more comfortable with some offensive naval units.
-Keep an eye on our wonder cities. Once we get Hoover's and our production jumps, we don't want to inadvertently finish a pre-build too soon.
- MP due in 2. It's a close shave, just watch it.
Sounds good.
I notice that we've been avoiding the stop at Apollo/go for space discussion. I'm okay with either way. The thought of hundreds of turns of war with India doesn't thrill me, but forcing him to go all the way to a launch would be satisfying.
I notice that we've been avoiding the stop at Apollo/go for space discussion. I'm okay with either way. The thought of hundreds of turns of war with India doesn't thrill me, but forcing him to go all the way to a launch would be satisfying.
denyd
Emperor
Just checking out the spoiler and I noticed WackenOpenAir note that some teams went monarchy which he felt was a mistake. He also mentioned wiping out pretty much everyone except a single city Ottomans. It will be interesting if our choice of Monarchy & keeping the Celts strong will prove more sucessful in getting Gandhi to space.
Jove - That's one wonder down and 2 to go. I'd like to find some way to squeeze in SETI in Trondheim. The additional beakers might be important in future research.
Just for my own clarification, I'll recap the next 15 turns.
1. Finish Mass Production Research
2. Research Motorized Transportation
3. Trade Mass Production to Celts for Flight
4. Gift Ottomans into the Modern Era
What happens if Ottomans get Computers and won't trade it to us?
5. If they don't get Computers, take Computers & Miniaturization with TOE build
6. Trade Computers to Ottoman for their MA tech
7. Sell a IA tech to Celts for all of his gold
Now a couple of questions?
Should we gift the Celts to the Modern Era?
He's likely to research Fission first, so if the Ottomans didn't get that we could research the branch they got either Space Flight or Synthetic Fibers, while Brennus researched Fission. The trade computers to Brennus for Fission and go for Nuclear Power (Nuclear Plant in high shield cities), The Laser & Robotics (Manufacturing Plant in high shield cities). Those techs should allow for additional trades with Brennus. The other options are go for Synthetic Fibers to push for Modern Armor to take the Celts out and save the Ottoman for the cash funnel to India.
Jove - That's one wonder down and 2 to go. I'd like to find some way to squeeze in SETI in Trondheim. The additional beakers might be important in future research. Just for my own clarification, I'll recap the next 15 turns.
1. Finish Mass Production Research
2. Research Motorized Transportation
3. Trade Mass Production to Celts for Flight
4. Gift Ottomans into the Modern Era
What happens if Ottomans get Computers and won't trade it to us?
5. If they don't get Computers, take Computers & Miniaturization with TOE build
6. Trade Computers to Ottoman for their MA tech
7. Sell a IA tech to Celts for all of his gold
Now a couple of questions?
Should we gift the Celts to the Modern Era?
He's likely to research Fission first, so if the Ottomans didn't get that we could research the branch they got either Space Flight or Synthetic Fibers, while Brennus researched Fission. The trade computers to Brennus for Fission and go for Nuclear Power (Nuclear Plant in high shield cities), The Laser & Robotics (Manufacturing Plant in high shield cities). Those techs should allow for additional trades with Brennus. The other options are go for Synthetic Fibers to push for Modern Armor to take the Celts out and save the Ottoman for the cash funnel to India.
denyd
Emperor
Just saw the Apollo discussion. If we're interested in stopping at Apollo then we'll need to revisit our current strategy. There's no need for the Internet if all we need is Rocketry & Space Flight in the Modern Era.
lurker's comment:
Please note that the earlier finish option still requires India to acquire ALL the techs needed to buiild a spaceship, as well as building Apollo.denyd said:
pindicator
Emperor
Yeah, either way we want to keep our research a steaming.
Maybe I missed this in the earlier discussion, but did we want to gift Ghandi a city at the very beginning of Modern age as well?
I'll grab it tonight, but I won't be able to play for at earilest tomorrow night, more likely Friday
Maybe I missed this in the earlier discussion, but did we want to gift Ghandi a city at the very beginning of Modern age as well?
I'll grab it tonight, but I won't be able to play for at earilest tomorrow night, more likely Friday
right on the moneyJove said:
IIRC unhappiness due to drafting lasts 20 turns so we have some time until Y-20 to draft in some of our core cities (except Aarhus), too.Jove said:
I also think monarchy was a mistake but keeping Celts alive is a good choice. They gave us more money than we could have earned in their land.denyd said:
IMO we can also switch to The Big Picture (TBP) after getting the first tech from ToE. So with that tech we should be able to buy computers and get miniaturization as second free tech.denyd said:
So timing would be:
1. finishing / getting flight, TBP
2. gifting Ottomans, check their free tech, be embarrassed about computers
3. select different tech (rocketry) ,
4. finish ToE, get rocketry, TBP
5. trade rocketry + gold for computers,
6. switch tech to miniaturization,
7. get miniaturization, TBP
8. Switch Palace to Internet in Channel City.
9. gift Aarhus to Gandhi (after selling its cultural improvements)
Any mistakes? Are there any points where you cannot go to TBP?
I vagely remember having trouble to revolt via TBP after getting Republic in trade or from TGL.
denyd
Emperor
Good plan, except I'd take Fission instead of Rocketry. It has a higher beaker cost and is worth more to the AI in trade (2 Wonders + 1 Resource). We might not need any gold to get Computers then.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
Couple points based on the recent discussion...
1. The Celts are hard for me. Every instinct in me is saying ELIMINATE THEM ASAP. The brain however says that Deny's idea of letting them research for us is probably a good one. I would probably go with my instinct and take them down. (more on this at the end)
2. I'm not sure we really need a way to funnel cash to India. They will be taking our cities, so all we really need to do is build up a large treasury for them to plunder. We can always do the reverse of our gambit in the AWD SGOTM. We take a city and let india take it back. Instant $$$ to India.
3. I want to finish this game. (Yes the last part may be tedious) It just won't feel done till I see the "You have suffered an embarassing defeat" message.
4. Paul's Modern Age entrance plan sounds good. Only couple comments on it.
(2) When we gift the Ottomans forward Don't gift them Communism. Or any other optional tech. They would be good kickers to help buy their tech.
(4) In fact, it might be possible to buy their tech before we build ToE.
Big if here, but if they get Computers, and we can trade before ToE, then we could get Miniaturization and Fission with ToE, saving us quite a bit.
(5) Deny's point about Fission is good.
5. More on Celts. There is a chance that they will help us in the Modern age, but I'm not convinced. I'd rather keep selling them Industrial Techs for all their $$$ to fund our 4 turn (hopefully) research. We also need to get an ROP with them early in the modern age so we can position our MAs in their backyard.
1. The Celts are hard for me. Every instinct in me is saying ELIMINATE THEM ASAP. The brain however says that Deny's idea of letting them research for us is probably a good one. I would probably go with my instinct and take them down. (more on this at the end)
2. I'm not sure we really need a way to funnel cash to India. They will be taking our cities, so all we really need to do is build up a large treasury for them to plunder. We can always do the reverse of our gambit in the AWD SGOTM. We take a city and let india take it back. Instant $$$ to India.
3. I want to finish this game. (Yes the last part may be tedious) It just won't feel done till I see the "You have suffered an embarassing defeat" message.
4. Paul's Modern Age entrance plan sounds good. Only couple comments on it.
(2) When we gift the Ottomans forward Don't gift them Communism. Or any other optional tech. They would be good kickers to help buy their tech.
(4) In fact, it might be possible to buy their tech before we build ToE.
Big if here, but if they get Computers, and we can trade before ToE, then we could get Miniaturization and Fission with ToE, saving us quite a bit.
(5) Deny's point about Fission is good.
5. More on Celts. There is a chance that they will help us in the Modern age, but I'm not convinced. I'd rather keep selling them Industrial Techs for all their $$$ to fund our 4 turn (hopefully) research. We also need to get an ROP with them early in the modern age so we can position our MAs in their backyard.
I'm open to discussion on the Celts as well. As far as their helping us in the MA goes, well, how many bpt are they really generating? They recently finished MT for us, that's about 1500bpt. How many turns did that take? Do the math, that's their research rate. Any chance they'll be completing 8000 beaker techs?
I think jeffelamar is probably right. More likely they'll build an airforce and a large stack of infantry and tanks to cause trouble than do research for us. Probably.
If we're going to attack, tanks v. Rifles sound good to me. Maybe some nice arty to dig in with and attract attackers.
-This is pretty much the end of our rep, eh? To buy an MA tech from Otto will cost hundreds of gpt. We'll have to attack immediately to get it back. Probably. But Otto and Brennus seem to have met, so it'll make Brennus a lousy trading partner even if he does learn a tech. He may not be that willing to buy our goods for much after that. Or if we leave Otto around, Brennus may just buy techs from him. And besides, he has no spare gpt as of my last turns. Grabbing his land may be the last way we can maintain the reasearch rate we want.
I think jeffelamar is probably right. More likely they'll build an airforce and a large stack of infantry and tanks to cause trouble than do research for us. Probably.
If we're going to attack, tanks v. Rifles sound good to me. Maybe some nice arty to dig in with and attract attackers.
-This is pretty much the end of our rep, eh? To buy an MA tech from Otto will cost hundreds of gpt. We'll have to attack immediately to get it back. Probably. But Otto and Brennus seem to have met, so it'll make Brennus a lousy trading partner even if he does learn a tech. He may not be that willing to buy our goods for much after that. Or if we leave Otto around, Brennus may just buy techs from him. And besides, he has no spare gpt as of my last turns. Grabbing his land may be the last way we can maintain the reasearch rate we want.
denyd
Emperor
If the Ottoman get something besides Computers, we can just take Computers & Miniaturization with TOE and then trade Computers to them for their bonus tech. Both Rocketry & Ecology are cheaper than Computers and we should be able to get a tech for tech deal. For fission we might have to kick in a couple of luxuries.
Is Stockholm over the 100spt barrier? If so, I'd like to have it pop out a tank per turn until we get to average with the Celts on a military level. I'm quite concerned about Brennus deciding that we've got a lot of unguarded cities shouting "EAT ME" and starting something. With 20 cavalry he could conquer most of our homeland.
If we gifted the Celts to the Modern Age, he'd still research Amphibious War & Sanitation before going for Rocketry or Ecology, so that should be considered in deciding his future, however if he could get 3-4 modern techs, that would cut over 10 turns off our Indian Elevator.
Pindicator asked when it will be time to let Gandhi out, that's a good question, any opinions? For me, I'd like to have the first level of MA techs done before we invite him to the party. We'll probably be in the middle of absorbing Celtic lands and that might allow us tio keep a couple of Celtic cities.
Is Stockholm over the 100spt barrier? If so, I'd like to have it pop out a tank per turn until we get to average with the Celts on a military level. I'm quite concerned about Brennus deciding that we've got a lot of unguarded cities shouting "EAT ME" and starting something. With 20 cavalry he could conquer most of our homeland.
If we gifted the Celts to the Modern Age, he'd still research Amphibious War & Sanitation before going for Rocketry or Ecology, so that should be considered in deciding his future, however if he could get 3-4 modern techs, that would cut over 10 turns off our Indian Elevator.
Pindicator asked when it will be time to let Gandhi out, that's a good question, any opinions? For me, I'd like to have the first level of MA techs done before we invite him to the party. We'll probably be in the middle of absorbing Celtic lands and that might allow us tio keep a couple of Celtic cities.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
Roster
Jove <== Just played
pindicator <== Up
TimBentley <== On Deck
Paul#42
CKS
denyd
jeffelammar
Jove <== Just played
pindicator <== Up
TimBentley <== On Deck
Paul#42
CKS
denyd
jeffelammar
Stockholm isn't above 100spt yet, but I'm pretty sure it will be when Hoover's is complete in 5. It might be possible to build 1-turn knights there now if we want, but you'd have to play with it to be sure.
We're to the point of producing Infantry every turn. I started a process of shipping them overseas in case Brennus gets feisty. Watching him march all those units around in the ibt made me nervous.
-3-4 MA techs out of Brennus? I'd be happy with one. I have to admit though, we're not going to be at 4-turn research for awhile in the MA, he'll have more time to do something for us than I hoped. But still... I'll have to look at some true numbers before I can cast a vote on this issue.
We're to the point of producing Infantry every turn. I started a process of shipping them overseas in case Brennus gets feisty. Watching him march all those units around in the ibt made me nervous.
-3-4 MA techs out of Brennus? I'd be happy with one. I have to admit though, we're not going to be at 4-turn research for awhile in the MA, he'll have more time to do something for us than I hoped. But still... I'll have to look at some true numbers before I can cast a vote on this issue.
