SGOTM21 Lurker's Thread

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by Deckhand, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. UnforcedError

    UnforcedError Settler

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    Izuul,

    It's a real shame that the rest of you decided not to carry on. My's a huge loss to the team, but you were doing great. I was secretly hoping you'd decide otherwise and bring this home.

    The Bur modifier does affect trade commerce btw.
     
  2. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    I gave my best to make the scenario depend less on micro, but on a solid long time strategy and clear decision making. As the first players are joining this thread now (as sad as it is) I'd like to know if it felt that way, even if it would only come to full effect in the late game.
     
  3. zamint3

    zamint3 Emperor

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    Please do share it with us! :thumbsup:
     
  4. UnforcedError

    UnforcedError Settler

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    BSP: I guess there are maps where you can get by with bad micro even on Deity against the AI. But when competing against other human teams Civ4 is bound to be micro intense. Imho it's 50% of what makes you win gold in the end. It's simply the nature of the game.

    EDIT:
    Alright, I'm on it :)
     
  5. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Like UE wrote (wave), it's the nature of Civ that you always look at cities, worker movement and stuff.
    At least if you want to keep up with teams like TSR or PD ;)

    Your map was great, imo. Good ideas and resi balance.
    Speaking for me, my time has just come in this game i think besides having to sort my RL too. Like Izuul, when turns get long i quickly lose motivation now..that was not the case in earlier Civ4 years. And it's nothing a map maker can fight against ;)

    If i will ever join one of those games again, it would be as running reporter lol ;)
    Making those screenies and little stories was refreshing, Civ surely has some comic potential.
     
  6. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    Yep, but even so our capitol only has 44 commerce and 55 bpt in an empire producing about 300 bpt. A turn of anarchy would've been really costly, especially since we were trying to build up some troops fast to go attack Louis. We had a plan to load roughly 3 galleons of maces, 1 galleon of cats, and 1 galleon of backup units to try to take Paris and Orleans which had most of the wonders - Pyramids, Parth, and TGL in particular, but we also gifted Louis Calendar when we met him in hopes he would build the MoM for us.

    @BSP - I loved the scenario design actually. Information costing gold and workers creates a great dynamic. Ideally you want the information early enough to plan your game, but the value of gold and workers also steadily decreases as the game goes on so the longer you can wait the cheaper the information is. It creates a really nice balancing act.

    I'm sorry i didn't continue, but i refuse to put forth anything less than my absolute best effort in a game like this so just half-assing the finish was never an option for me. If i had continued playing this game i would've increased my time commitment by at least 50% trying to make up for the absence of Mylene and that also isn't a realistic option for me right now.
     
  7. UnforcedError

    UnforcedError Settler

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    So, as promised, some stats:

    I decided to take a snapshot at T85 which is FE's last save (and which has been the last save for PD until yesterday). I took the closest saves I could from the other teams. You can find the turn of the snapshot in the table below. Note that XTeam is only at T78 at the moment.

    This is how the realms are shaping up

    Fifth Element
    Spoiler :

    Jeg Älsker Er
    Spoiler :

    Misfit Gipsy Nuts
    Spoiler :

    Phoenix Rising
    Spoiler :

    Plastic Ducks
    Spoiler :

    The Shawshank Redemption
    Spoiler :

    Xteam
    Spoiler :


    Some stats in comparison

    Column 1
    Team Turn Cities Total pop Improved Tiles GNP Prod / Food Military Civs met Wonders Great People
    Fifth Element 85 8 216000 28 119 27 / 80 73000 English, Dutch, Zulu Great Lighthouse 1 GM
    Jeg Älsker Er 87 7 203000 21 176 25 / 67 79000 English, Dutch, Zulu Oracle, Great Lighthouse 1 GS
    Misfit Gipsy Nuts 84 8 398000 26 121 32 / 89 84000 English, Dutch, Zulu Great Lighthouse 1 GM
    Phoenix Rising 85 9 331000 21 194 33 / 87 76000 English, Dutch, Zulu, Malinese, Spanish Great Lighthouse 1 GM
    Plastic Ducks 85 7 257000 15 118 21 / 86 62000 English, Dutch, Zulu, Malinese, Spanish, French Oracle, Great Lighthouse 1 GS
    The Shawshank Redemption 83 7 230000 18 115 26 / 76 81000 English, Dutch, Zulu, Malinese, Spanish Great Lighthouse ---
    Xteam 78 5 268000 14 146 16 / 53 57000 English, Dutch, Zulu, Malinese, Spanish Oracle, Great Lighthouse 1 GS


    Technologies

    Column 1
    Fifth Element Jeg Älsker Er Misfit Gipsy Nuts Phoenix Rising Plastic Ducks The Shawshank Redemption Xteam
    Fishing DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    The Wheel DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Agriculture DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Hunting DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Mysticism DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Mining DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Sailing DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Pottery DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Animal Husbandry DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Archery DONE DONE DONE DONE --- DONE DONE
    Meditation --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
    Polytheism DONE DONE --- DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Masonry DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Horseback Riding --- --- --- --- --- DONE ---
    Monotheism --- --- --- DONE --- DONE ---
    Bronze Working DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Writing DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Metal Casting in progress DONE in progress DONE --- DONE ---
    Iron Working DONE DONE DONE DONE --- DONE ---
    Aesthetics --- --- --- --- DONE --- ---
    Mathematics --- DONE DONE DONE DONE --- DONE
    Alphabet DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Monarchy --- --- --- --- --- --- DONE
    Compass --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
    Literature --- --- --- --- in progress --- ---
    Calendar --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
    Construction --- --- --- --- DONE --- in progress
    Currency DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
    Machinery --- in progress --- in progress --- in progress ---
    Code of Laws --- --- --- --- --- --- DONE
    Civil Service --- --- --- --- --- --- DONE


    Remarks: according to these standings XTeam is leading the field technology-wise, while PR is leading in the other departments (number of cities and military progression), without trailing too much in research. Especially considering that PR's current save at 100 BC already has 15 cities, Astronomy and is close to Education.
    JÄE and PD went for a fairly similar strategy and are fairly head-to-head at this point. TSR is the only team without a GP yet (with 5 turns to get the GLH merchant).

    PR, please get back to the game :crazyeye:

    EDIT:
    All Clues


    Spoiler :
    Elizabeth ("Elizabeth wants to be treated like the queen she is. You need to impress her with unique status symbols, like...")
    a) Rename the proudest ship ever to sail the oceans after her and gift it to her (needs at least 50xp to be worthy).
    b) Build a huge statue of her and celebrate it with the biggest party of all time (construct The Colossus, Christo Redentor or The Statue of Liberty during a Golden Age that has at least 11 turns left at time of completion)(not the whole construction needs to happen during the GA, just the completion)
    c) Bring her all the luxuries of the world (gift her at the same time: Gold, silver, gems, ivory, fur, pearls(clam), wine and silk. If she already has some, ignore these.)

    Isabella ("Isabella is all into romantic gestures. My first suggestion to win her heart would be...")
    a) Have the most brilliant minds of your time explain to her that your love is pure, true and eternal (bring one artist, scientist and prophet to her capital and gift them to her)
    b) Build her a luxurious summer residence (Gift her a city built on desert and next to the coast or an oasis that has an Odeon, a Grocer and a Castle), you must be at +3 relations with her when you gift this city.
    c) Invent a whole new style of music to express your love and let the whole world hear it (Construct Rock N Roll and gift all Singles away for free, or gift Singles to all players alive)

    Catherine ("Catherine's heart has to be conquered. You will have to prove your might to her by...")
    a) Take control of the worlds most important resources: Control 4 aluminum, 6 uranium and 10 oil resources (control = have inside your borders and connected to your trade network).
    b) Prove your might with a military parade in her honor (have the following units in her capital at the same time: 12 armored units, 4 air units and 12 gunpowder units, commanded by a general (unconnected))
    c) Be the first to get a serious Space Program running (be the first to complete Apollo Program and build three parts of the spaceship, your choice)


    Clues Purchased by Teams

    Column 1
    Turn Elizabeth Isabella Catherine
    Fifth Element 85 2 0 0
    The Shawshank Redemption 101 1 1 3
    Plastic Ducks 94 1 1 1
    Phoenix Rising 111 2 2 3
    Xteam 78 0 0 2
    Jag Älskar Er 114 1 1 2
    Misfit Gipsy Nuts 121 2 1 3


    (Nobody bought location info.)

    EDIT 2
    City Infrastructure

    Column 1
    FE JÄE MGN PR PD TSR Xteam
    Turn 85 87 84 85 85 83 78
    Granary 3 5 4 2 7 6 4
    Library 4 3 4 4 2 3 2
    Lighthouse 1 1 2 1 4 1 1
    Barracks 0 1 0 0 0 1 0
    Palace 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
    The Great Lighthouse 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
    The Oracle 0 1 0 0 1 0 1
     
  8. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    I know UE, my feeling was this was the strongest first half PR ever played in sgotm.
    (I did suspect we are ahead in expansion when comparing culture progress for teams)
    We made only 1 mistake i can think of (risking friendly with Lizzy, and yep it did backfire).

    Funny you mentioned those granaries @Izu, i would say it was one of those reasons why we did so well. We did focus only on stuff that helps us quickly, granaries are great and all but they are not always good first builds.

    Even without my current problems i might have no regrets btw, this lurker thread is becoming fun ;)

    Oh, i can echo what Izu wrote about switching into Bur.
    The main disadvantage was lost time on unit and settler builds (when Shaka attacked us, it became impossible sacrificing 1 turn), while our Cap also had not many hammers that benefit from 50% increase, and we were going for OF into Ox thoughts instead of whipping buildings already.
    We would not have been able to switch into Mona too, our empire was too big already for 2 switches (2 anarchy turns for that). We also did get many happy res. trades during those times and no city had problems without Mona.
     
  9. UnforcedError

    UnforcedError Settler

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    It always is, isn't it, but you tend to lose more and more as the game progresses.

    Mylene
    Spoiler :
    Despite of me being really desperate about not seeing PR carry this potential gold winning game to the end, I must say I know exactly how you feel. It's when you find yourself sitting in front of your home computer at 3 in the morning and you realize you haven't slept more than 10 hours for the whole past week. When you can barely manage to go to work and the people around you plus household are at a standstill. When you ask yourself what you're ruining your health for.
    Taking a break is a good decision. It helped me too :)
    However, I seriously hope you'll stay around on the forums, or will at least return when you feel more at ease with the game. Take care!

    Well, in any case, congrats to team PR on the magnificent progress so far. :goodjob:

    EDIT:
    Yep, I agree that happy-wise you could have delayed the switch for a bit longer. But a loss of ~30cpt in a ~300cpt empire is quite significant. And you've had CS for ~10 turns at that point, right?
     
  10. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I totally agree with Izuul's view here. There is no way we would play this on trashing the good work we had done so far. I think people would expect PR to play their best and not finish a game for the sake of it.

    It looks like some teams managed both Oracle and TGL. Be interesting how these decisions turn out with a French Ai pretty much building most wonders. I wonder if the lit strategy for PD will pay off here. No marble or stone nearby. They should get music G Art. Also explains the other teams slower rex and some of the teams higher scores. Avoiding myst/poly and PH almost pays for Aesth anyway. Also avoids priest points.

    We seemed to do well exploring locally. Both PD and TSR have not fully uncovered the triple fish or the Iron site near English. PD have found the French.

    Lots of different approaches even with oracle and GLH.
     
  11. UnforcedError

    UnforcedError Settler

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    No, obviously not. If you all lost motivation, you should stop. This is supposed to be fun after all. It's just a shame because you were doing so well. :sad:
    Yes, strange, isn't it? Granted, TGL has its charm with PHIL. And I'm sure they will want the Music GA. But still, at the given circumstances pretty research and hammer intense, just as the Oracle.

    EDIT:
    Sorry, had to quote this :)mischief:):
     
  12. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Be interesting to see how the rex vs CS Oracle grab works. At T85 9 vs 5 cities is a big gap. I don't rate monarchy high on this game. Even CS has limited uses. Our capital was very late to cottages and lacked hammers. Currency Oracle seems a better option. Meanwhile we had 2-3 cities heading for great people instead of wonder building. Probably first to GLH too.

    I will agree swords had their risk on our game but we were building them mixed with mace. The only real issue was when Dutch second city spammed archers. That and Shaka dogpiling us. Unfortunate.

    As we pointed out in thread losing units like spears and swords was no real loss as they were quickly becoming obsolete. Mace would of beaten all units on our island. The attack on French could of been a game breaker.

    Mylene might make an interesting map maker. Shame to lose her completely from SGOTM. This way she could get involved but not have to spend hours at the PC.

    I don't see Phoenix Rising returning. When a team loses all it's key players then it's time to call it a day. Who knows player could yet join other teams in the future but I think most of our team has had their fill of SGOTM games.

    @ Nocho - We may have burnt out but not before grabbing 3 Bronze and a silver laurel. Pretty impressive considering. Many doubted us in the early days. We never intended to play SGOTM indefinately.
     
  13. UnforcedError

    UnforcedError Settler

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    Added info on the clues purchased so far in my previous post.
     
  14. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I didn't get the point of clues to find the 3 ladies. 2 ladies find you by boat anyway. The third is easily found by caravel anyway. Plus you don't need to meet them to buy clues. Which made paying money to find them pointless.

    No real shock here.
     
  15. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    I have a scenario that needs a playtester / balancing guy. No clue if it will ever be played, but I had an idea and created it.

    Edit: No hurry.
     
  16. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    I think it was rather useless and a waste of money.
    Working as intended (by Microsoft standards).
     
  17. UnforcedError

    UnforcedError Settler

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    Yes, but you didn't actually assume someone would go for it? :D

    I can playtest for you, depending on how fast you need insights from me.
     
  18. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    I'd be up for some playtesting as well, BSP.
     
  19. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    Anyone playtesting would, obviously, be unable to play. That's why a) only one gets to do it, and b) Deckhand did it so far, as he's the admin and as the admin can't play as well (doh!) this only removes one person from the competition. And, please don't get me wrong, I need someone who can play a really strong game, as he playtests for a whole team.

    Still interested? I'll have to talk about it with Deckhand anyway so it will take a while.
     
  20. BSPollux

    BSPollux Deity

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    People said they hated randomness. If anyone would have told me "We only lost cause we were unlucky scouting / we didn't find them in time" I would have pointed to that clue :)
     

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