SGOTM3 Rome - Maintenance Thread

[akots]

... The reason I am disappointed with the discussion about who and when to declare war with is partly disappointment in myself for not forseeing all the possible permutations and variations that could be possible, along with my inability to communicate the intent of the rules clearly, and also disappointment that the clarifications I have had to make due to my shortcomings are not being read by everyone and questioned at the time. So I find myself writing the same thing over and over again in different ways, and thus screwing it up over and over again in different ways. ...

But the variant indeed has confusing rules and you have chosen them as well as the game to replay. So, don't be that disappointed by some things that really don't matter much. I'm more disappointed by low activity of our team members in discussion and playing.

For next SGOTM it might be possible also to look at the average post count per day of anticipated team members not only at their strength of play. Some may be play well but never discuss and skip and skip forever. Others discuss and discuss and when it comes to the game, they screw it up all over. The result is all the same. Hence, if I may suggest to choose team members first on their own preferences (this way you have less trouble managing the rosters) and second, on their strength and forum activity as equaly weighting factors. At least, in our case the thread won't look too embarassing which it is now. I have not had such low activity of the team members in any other SG.

 

[akots]

I haven't played this variant before. But I've got a feeling that it may prove to be tougher than AWE.

Yep, it might be if you are going for Domination or UN. But for Conquest not much, apparently the same as AWE. Spaceship is always and option as well.

 

[tao]

It is indeed my intention that I basically provide two different games on the same map. One winnable, and one loseable. This game is a test really to gauge the level of expertise within the playing community to enable me to set the difficulty. The next game will hopefully approach my objective of 50% victory rate for the variant.

For this game it would appear that all the teams should find a way to win, though for some it may be touch and go for a while.

IMHO we will have 4 groups of teams:

1. the non-variant teams should all be able to win
2. the xenophobic teams with both Pyramids and Great Library will win easily and be the top scorers
3. the xenophobic teams with the Great Library will win moderately easy
4. the xenophobic teams with the Pyramids will have a hard time winning
5. the xenophobic teams with neither Pyramids nor Great Library will not have an at all easy life

Missing the Great Library will result in a tech lag and may lead to missing some of the important Middle Age wonders, further increasing the gap to the AIs. The Pyramids will partly offset this handicap because of the increased growth rate. Having neither will result in being half an age behind in techs, and that is no fun in AW, and even less so without captured cities and slaves.

 

[microbe]

Tao, greetings from group five.

IMHO we will have 4 groups of teams:

 

[mad-bax]

For next SGOTM it might be possible also to look at the average post count per day of anticipated team members not only at their strength of play.

This is a good point. Priority 1 is to make teams of acceptably equal strength. It is important IMO that any team is capable of winning the competition they choose to play. If I can do this and still have scope to sort the teams by a second parameter then I will try to do this in future. I agree that when tumbleweed begins to drift across the game thread and you hear the sound of the distant church bells that is can be both disconcerting and frustrating. Hopefully the team captains can find some way to draw these people out of their shells.

There are lots of reasons for low post counts.

In fact the rate at which a game is played, and the rate of posting is usually inversely proportional to the trouble the team are in.

 

[Tallanas]

There are lots of reasons for low post counts.

In fact the rate at which a game is played, and the rate of posting is usually inversely proportional to the trouble the team are in.

That's probably true.

However, I like to think that our team is the exception that proves the rule. We have a fairly decent postcount, but are in a whole heap of trouble

 

[akots]

... However, I like to think that our team is the exception that proves the rule. ...

Well, our team might be another exception. No major trouble so far. This makes the rule even stronger.

And what is this talk about Pyramids, Great Library... We just have to survive somehow.

 

[tao]

For next SGOTM it might be possible also to look at the average post count per day of anticipated team members not only at their strength of play.

/sarcasm on/ Yes and on the number of lines per post. And the number of typos per post. And the ratio of typos per line. And the average time gap between posts. And the ratio of quoted text to new text./sarcasm off/

I hope I will be pardoned for the above, but IMHO this is not a valid criteria. Just tell me how many posts you except me to do per day, and I can meet this criteria. But does it any good?

IMHO it will be very hard to separate necessary and meaningful discussion from idle chatter and rambling, which some people nonetheless need and enjoy. And there is nothing wrong with this. How about a rule: "After each turn, each team member has to congratulate the player. And then - in a second posting - has to comment on the other congratulations. And in a third posting has to give some mild criticism. And in a forurth posting has to comment on the criticisms of the other team members. And in a fifth posting .....

I think I should stop before getting carried away even further.

 

[akots]

Good point but still it is a measure of activity. Hows about not showing up in the thread for 3 days? When you're UP? Then, advise what to do? Skip? Drop? What if the whole team is like this? With a few exceptions since we are still moving somehow...

 

[samildanach]

I have not had such low activity of the team members in any other SG.

Our team consists of strong silent types I'm not contributing much because a) its your team and b) the last time it happened I got annoyed and tried ranting and provoking people into contributing. By not contributing I guess they may learn the hard way it is a team game ie . we get our heads handed to us.
I'm not going to get too bothered by it. If they don't step up and try following whats going on then we will lose. Mind you i don't understand the variant really myself - I was the yo-yo who was out hunting for slaves in a an xenophobic game after all
As far as the player who skipped out, I think he was just embarrassed about the RCP mistake in his first turn. Not that it was a big deal- we can disband that city once we start working on our second ring.

 

[scoutsout]

I was the yo-yo who was out hunting for slaves in a an xenophobic game after all

Oh man - I'm right there with you. I whacked a settler pair on a mountain during my second turnset when I realized I didn't really need to do that...

...and then I remembered doing something with some slave workers that someone forgot to execute...

...and then the next better player found a couple more slave workers that I hadn't caught...

...so here we are, running around our own territory, pilliaging our own terrain improvements to stay within the rules...

I'm just glad we're not playing this variant as the Maya. (This is NOT a suggestion MB.)

@Akots: I feel any team leader's pain on the MIA player issue. IMHO, the only really good predictor of a player's participation is past participation in SGs. If SGOTM is a player's first SG, that player is simply a dark horse. In SGOTM2 I had 3 low post count players to start, and had to make 2 substitutions (1 went MIA, 1 got called for military service). Karasu later handed me a strong player, and I recruited another low-post count guy.

In all, team scout had 4 players come through that game that had low post counts and no completed SGs under their belts. Two of those have not been heard from since, and two are in the current game (one as a team leader).

 

[ForTheEmpire]

If SGOTM is a player's first SG, that player is simply a dark horse.

It's nice to be labled as something around here There are by far worse labels out there.

 

[samildanach]

It's nice to be labled as something around here There are by far worse labels out there.

I like the term NOOB myself Scoutsout is far too diplomatic
In Team Akots you would be a NOOB - no grand titles such as "dark horse".
Whenever a NOOB makes a mistake Akots tasers them and I beat them with a rubber hose. You may think this is harsh but unproductive X-TEAM players have found themselves in GITMO.....Alans got connections at the highest levels.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

* Cough Cough * Ahem....




I AM NOOB HEAR ME ROAR!





EDIT: And of course, the bloody noob decides to misspell HEAR as HERE,

 

[civ_steve]

Good point but still it is a measure of activity. Hows about not showing up in the thread for 3 days? When you're UP? Then, advise what to do? Skip? Drop? What if the whole team is like this? With a few exceptions since we are still moving somehow...

We've had dry spells from time to time; everybody has RL responsibilities, too. It's a very good idea to stick to a 24 hour 'got it' post requirement. After 24 hours, we'll open it up to the next two players, first to post a 'got it'. And so on until a MIA shows up, or one of the active players takes it. Occasionally we switch positions. With this understanding in place, there's no hard feelings and we keep the game moving.

 

[akots]

Sam, you are always such a fun! I like your ranting so much! (Petting the dog at the ears; smell; what is this smell?; got to wash his socks!)

IIRC, Cuivienen left to Bolivia, Sir_Ortin just cannot get through with the lousy modem dial-up as it is in all countries of the former Soviet Union, and jhingham might be busy with something else in the world besides Civ3 which is so-called RL. Since you are posting here, I'm forced to move a part of discussion as well.

Seriously, we cannot finish this game in time unless we lose badly and soon.

 

[akots]

... After 24 hours, we'll open it up to the next two players, first to post a 'got it'. And so on until a MIA shows up, or one of the active players takes it. ...

That would have been a single player game with occasional contributions from Sam. Have not played that GOTM so may be fun but it is SG after all.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

EDIT: And of course, the bloody noob decides to misspell HEAR as HERE,

We saw you were from the land of the GOVERNATOR and we automatically understood.

 

[mad-bax]

One team has reported that they cannot pillage using armies. This issue is under investigation, and no action will be taken until I can determine whether there is a problem with the bic, the bix or an individual save.

 

[tao]

One team has reported that they cannot pillage using armies. This issue is under investigation, and no action will be taken until I can determine whether there is a problem with the bic, the bix or an individual save.

This is not new. IIRC the pillage capability was removed for GOTM (bic?) because it was considered exploitive,since the AI nearly never attacks armies.