SGOTM3 Rome - Maintenance Thread

[denyd]

Back on page 6 Tao, broke the probable results based at 4 levels and the more I think about it he's right, which is kind of sad. It seems like if you were playing the variant and did not get your first Great Leader in time for either of the Pyramids (extra growth) or Great Library (tech parity) you were destined to have to climb a very big mountain. That kind of means if you are lucky you win and unlucky you lose. That's one thing that the GOTM normally strives to avoid (example: the popping of a nearby hut for a settler).

Also a request: How about an SGOTM for us builders. Having each game played for the warmongers is a little limited in strategy options. It kind of reduces the game to a see enemy, kill enemy mentality.

 

[microbe]

That's one thing that the GOTM normally strives to avoid (example: the popping of a nearby hut for a settler).

I agree. That's why I like the change that MGL cannot rush great wonders in C3C. It certainly makes the game more challenging. On the other hand SGLs should be disabled too.

Is it possible to move SGOTM to C3C?

 

[samildanach]

It kind of reduces the game to a see enemy, kill enemy mentality.

Tree Hugging Hippy!

 

[klarius]

It seems like if you were playing the variant and did not get your first Great Leader in time for either of the Pyramids (extra growth) or Great Library (tech parity) you were destined to have to climb a very big mountain.

We at XTEAM have neither Pyramids nor Great Library. We were also at war with everybody on our continent earlier than everybody else.
Still we hope to beat the result of Team Smackster with hard work and superior strategy.

 

[scoutsout]

We were also at war with everybody on our continent earlier than everybody else.

How do you know this?

 

[klarius]

How do you know this?

Edited out. Forgot that's not the spoiler thread.
But Scout, this was only based on the posts in the spoiler so far.

 

[alerum68]

I haven't read the spoiler thread yet... we haven't entered the MA yet... I think a few teams are still chugging along back there. Don't take offense, but you may want to keep anything that's relayed in the spoiler thread to that thread.

 

[klarius]

@Alerum
I noted my blunder and edited my post. And I apologize.
But I also think the events were so early that all teams are already over these dates.
I originally just wanted to make clear that AA wonders are not as important as many people think.
Even in the variant you can catch up and the important point is how you play the MA.

 

[smackster]

Even in the variant you can catch up and the important point is how you play the MA.

Agreed, which is why we are in the lead

But seriously without giving away any spoiler information, I would like to state for the record that our teams score is not purely based on luck and that there probably was a certain amount of skill involved. Consider also that we played on average two sets of turns per day (real time) for much of the game with no skips.

smackster (getting a little bored of the constant thread that team smackster was simply lucky)

 

[Mauer]

smackster (getting a little bored of the constant thread that team smackster was simply lucky)

I think the communication level of your team played a major role as well. Almost double all of the other teams, including the teams that are near or beyond your finish date.

Team smackster
Who Posted?
Total Posts: 666
User Name Posts
smackster 241
dmanakho 156
Wotan 139
Tarkeel 98
DeceasedHorse 24
mad-bax 8

 

[klarius]

The Gold Laurel will be awarded to the team that win by the victory condition of their choice in the fewest turns relative to the Jason best date for that condition.

I just want to mention this again.

There is no need for variant Teams to give up, even if they wont reach smackster's Jason score.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I just want to mention this again.

There is no need for variant Teams to give up, even if they wont reach smackster's Jason score.

What makes you think any of us would give up?

[patriotic voice]We play for the love of the game![/patriotic voice]

 

[smackster]

Team smackster
Who Posted?
Total Posts: 666
User Name Posts
smackster 241
dmanakho 156

I was going to blame dmanakho for the amount of posts we had, but looks like it was me all along. I actually have more posts than a number of teams combined, double

 

[klarius]

What makes you think any of us would give up?

[patriotic voice]We play for the love of the game![/patriotic voice]

I didn't mean give up in the sense of not playing any more, but in the sense of the gold laurel would be impossible and just drag along.
I'm pretty sure every variant team has still the chance to get a better date than smackster's team.
The date does not impress me at all, while the score is very high for the variant.

 

[dmanakho]

I was going to blame dmanakho for the amount of posts we had, but looks like it was me all along. I actually have more posts than a number of teams combined, double

May be you were a little fast with assigning me with a title of Chief Blabber Mouth.
How about you will be the Chief and i will be an ordinary blabber mouth .
But nobody can compete with ForTheEmpire for the number of posts per given time interval. Although i must admit he (or she) is a fun person...
I usually read Microbe team thread for the entertainment purposes.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

And as I said already, we are NOT free entertainment!

And yes, FTE is of the male variety

 

[mad-bax]

For the record, and because I can read all the threads team Smackster have not been lucky. Over the course of their game their luck has evened out IMO. They played extremely well in fact and fully deserve the result they achieved. They may have made one fatal error however, which now leaves them hanging on the edge of their seats for a while.

The team where luck has played an unnacceptably large part is teamX, who had around 50 elite wins to get their first leader. In the end though this may in fact have helped them in an obtuse way, since they were forced to re-evaluate the way they played the game, and thus avoided the mistake made by team Smackster.

All the other teams are getting pretty much what they deserve IMO.

As for changing the way leaders work... well no. The same element of luck is embedded in the single player GOTM games. The effect is just less apparent because you don't get the blow by blow accounts. In the last GOTM I got a settler from a hut, a leader with my first elite victory and my first suicide galley succeeded, oh and my immediate neighbour built the pyramids. I didn't submit the game.

Denyd made a comment about having a SGOTM for builders. Well, each game gives the choice of variant or non-variant. And last month the variant was a diplo win game. I am trying to alternate between war/builder variants, though it has to be said there are many more warmongering options, and trying to invent non-cheesy builder variants is a challenge, as akots was only too quick to point out. But I will try.

SGOTM will not migrate to C3C. However... A seperate SCOTM could be possible if there was enough interest. As long as I am involved with this event I will provide a game that the mac community can share in, but a seperate event for C3C is not outside the bounds of possibility.

The Staff team is still going to win BTW.

 

[akots]

... The team where luck has played an unnacceptably large part is teamX, who had around 50 elite wins to get their first leader. ...

Cannot say that about us for the first leader, probably around 35-40 or so including defensive wins with elite spears but the second leader took ... (checking the record keeping book) ... about 52 then I stopped counting and there were around a dozen more at least before the guy finally emerged.

So, what is the story behind your GOTM which you did not submit? You lost it or what? Just curious.

And don't tell please that building the Pyramids with a leader in this game is not a good luck. It is a good luck. Is it possible to beat their finish date? Certainly possible! But very unlikely. Especially considering the xenophobic nature of the variant. That is actually the problem with this game. You cannot capture the Pyramids or Great Library. The only way to own a wonder is to build it. Time is running very short in this game and you have probably about 10-15 maximum 20 elite wins to generate a leader for Pyramids and may be 25 maximum counting from zero to generate a leader for Great Library. Both wonders are crucial for this particular variant. Especially brutal is the fact that decent kill ratio enough for survival comes only with legions and this means spending the Golden Age in Despotism. This put pRNG on the first place in this game. And vanilla as well as PTW are know for horrendous MGL streaks. The reason is that MGL generation is not determined directly by a number of elite wins but is hardcoded by the random seed and is weighted independently after each combat. This was fixed in C3C and works very well.

IMHO, AWE would be easier to play to a certain extent than this xenophobic variant. This makes the game even more interesting though I have little doubt all teams would be able to win it.

 

[tao]

We mostly do it for fun, but team tao keeps a tally that currently says

- Great Leaders: 14
- Slaves disbanded: 192
- Cities razed: 68

I don't know if other teams do likewise, but it might be interesting to compare in the final spoiler.

 

[akots]

I like especially when they appear a couple of turns before the finish every other elite win.

We did not keep track of these numbers, I'm afraid.

But in GOTM it is also a great factor especially considering the Palace jump. Sometimes even probably decisive. Leader farming technique though often helped to overcome that. But proper leader farming in this game was barely possible.