SGOTM3 Rome - Team Smackster

[dmanakho]

Superb spoiler... and I also do like those quotes from Smackster and DH....

 

[dmanakho]

Suggestion #1. Keep pillaging greeks until they have no roads left...
I think they have iron in one of their eastern cities, that probably should be pillaged too, or if you get enough forces just kill'em all

 

[smackster]

All we need to do is pillage the roads directly connected to Athens. That means they get no resources or luxuries anywhere, as they need to be connected to the capital. Leave the rest as we can use them later.

smackster

 

[Wotan]

I agree with Smackster, pillage as little as possible for effect since we are moving in to occupy the territory later. Every road, mine and irrigation we can use is Worker actions saved...

 

[smackster]

Hi guys, maybe this example is overkill, you might all be aware of this technique but if not have a look at this:
............short rush example deleted......

I thinks it fine to do short rushing if you have time. But would not make it a requirement for any of the team as it does add more time to the set of turns. For example my turns took nearly 3 hours last night and I didn't spend any time planning things like short rushes and didn't have to do any diplomacy.

 

[smackster]

Great writeup, here are a couple of suggestions.

Before 1950 BC England and America appears in F4, guess someone told them where we live. Before 1750 BC we get more company, as Russia, Germany and Babylon appear in F4. France also appeared somewhere in there, but none of them have contacted us yet though.

In 1710 we make our first contacts: Germany first, followed by England and Russia. There was some confusion here, as Babylon contacted us before this with a trade but war wasn't declared untill the next player spotted the mistake.

I'd like to add two points to this section
1) I'd like us to say that after Babylon contacted us, we intentially contacted all the others, so that we could maximise trading during that period
2) Maybe put a comment in that we don't think our mistake on declaring war changed anything, all Babylon did was send a new Bowmen every 10 turns, each of which was easily dispatch

Warfare
Alexanders first raiding party showed up in 2430 BC, consisting of 3 warriors. They attack our defending archer, which defeats 2 and gets promoted, and the third dies attacking the defending warrior. Things looked shaky there, but we pulled through. Immediately after a hoplite appears as well, but that is killed by our elite archer while on grass. It isn't untill 1600 or so that the next "attack" comes, in form of a lone archer. Our elite archer attacks it, and Trajan rises to our cause!

Maybe want to mention there that he built the Pyramids.

In 330 BC we declare war on the last civ known to us, Russia.

Might want to mention that America established an embassy with us, and we got them to declare on England, who then got Russia to fight also. As we had to pay ~30GPT to America for the alliance, we declared war on them early (about 30 turns or so) to get our gold back. We accepted the trashed rep at that point as we were due to be at war with all soon.

 

[dmanakho]

What do we do If we get new MGL in next few turns??
Save it for buture FP build or just go ahead and create a legion army??

 

[Wotan]

GL's: If we can build Leo's when the GL arrives, build it. Else use it for an army, would prefer to have the army built w. Knights if possible though. FP is so far in the future I guess we will have at least one additional GL appear before it is time for it. We need to take out the frogs first...

Other wonders we could benefit from during MA: Bach's, Smith's (maybe) and Magellan's.

Harder to see the use of: Sistine (we will probably not build any Cathedrals), Newton's and Copernicus (to late in the age, we should be at, or close to domination by then).

Edit: Re. Tarkeel's question below. HG might be OK too. Can't remember when it goes obsolete though? FP when we are in position to place it where we want it. Remember, this is PTW! )There were some comments about playing mostly Coquests from someone in the beginning.)

 

[Tarkeel]

Quick question: FP, Hanging Gardens, Leo or army? groucho

HG lasts till Steam Power.
We are still some way from FP site, as I've had to focus on counterattacks in the beginning here. Athens is burning though

 

[smackster]

Quick question: FP, Hanging Gardens, Leo or army? groucho

I like HG, but we could build that in 20 turns. No point building the FP before we get the FP lands. Leo's is nice but we can probably generate enough cash not to need it. Army would allow us to get the HE, although I'm convinced that doesn't work (well I never seem to get leaders after I build it).

There is the great lighthouse I think, or did that go.

 

[dmanakho]

I would skip hanging gardens...
Sistine chapel, I do agree we probably won't build a single cafedral in this game...
Leo might be useful, and yes we will have enough cash for knight upgrades, but who knows if we will have a need to upgrade to cavalry, we very well might.
And since we will research all late MA techs on our own we won't have much cash at that point... Well.. it was just a thought...
Great lighthouse is a good addition, i was already thinking about having a suicide galler run, but then may be we should wait for our GL to last longer...
not sure if it is really going to work in this game but if we contact AIs on another continent later in MA we will be able to get free education and all more advanced tech for free just because.... I did that before and it works..

Although i do have a feeling that this game will be over before we advance in industrial age.

 

[Tarkeel]

I'm not bothering to report unit builds, there's simply too many of them

(0) 150 BC
Antium is overproducing, so switch a tile to Lutetia
Short rush in Pisae
DO lots of other MMing
Change Veii and Pompeii to Forum (Market)
Switch Neapolis to settler and shortrush via archer
Change Viroconium to worker and rush

Tech check:
Even with Greece, England, Babylon, Germany and America
Up all 3 MA techs + Monarchy on France
Up Monotheism and Feudalism on Russia
In other words: High probability that all 3 techs are bein researched, and all except France and Russia can build pikes.

(1) 130 BC
Viroconium: Worker->Library (We need culture here since it's an outmost ring city)
We kill 3 settler/spear pairs, too bad we can't use these slaves.
Prepare forces to strike Sparta next turn
Set Lutetia to worker

IBT:
English approach in west, Babylon in the north, and Greece in East. Joy!

(2) 110 BC
Found Caesaragusta in desert
Rush a horse in Neocaledonium to cover our exposed south
Siege of Sparta:
4/4 Leg vs 3/3 Hoplite -> 3/4 Leg, razing it
That was a lot easier then expected..
Siege of Pharsalos:
5/5 Horse vs 3/3 Hoplite -> 1/3 Hop
5/5 Horse vs 3/3 Hoplite -> 5/5 Horse
5/5 Horse vs 1/3 Hoplite -> 1/5 Horse, razing it
Siege of Tours
4/4 Leg vs 4/4 Spear -> 2/4 Leg, razing it

IBT:
Babylonian SoD at Byzantium
More English arrive in the west

(3) 90 BC
Bombard and wound some of the Babylonian SOD
Rest and move troops
Put an entertainer in Gonzo, that city needs roads!

IBT:
Babylonian SoD retreats/regroups going for Caesaraugust
Yet more english arrive in the west

(4) 70 BC
Lose 2 legs on an archer in mountain
Found Palmyra

IBT:
English keep pouring in from the West..

(5) 50 BC
We kill a lot of English invaders

(6) 30BC
Kill the last of this English invaders
We raze the undefended (!) Herakleia
We're set to sack Athens next round.

IBT:
Jeebuz! Hordes of angry Brits come rolling over the mountain
Invention pops from GL

(7) 10 BC
Veii: Forum->Legion
Pompeii: Forum->Legion
Lugdunum: Horse->Forum
Ravenna switched to Forum
Found Jerusalem
Germanicus appears as we slaughter a german spear, but I fatfinger him onto a hill.
Siege of Athens:
4/4 leg vs 4/4 Hoplite -> 2/4 Hop
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Hop -> 1/3 Hop
4/4 Leg vs 3/3 Hop -> 5/4 Leg
4/4 Leg vs 2/4 Hop -> 1/4 Leg
3/4 Leg vs 4/4 Archer -> 1/4 Leg
Leaving 1 hoplite at 1 hp, ut another can enter next turn.

(8) 10 AD
Found Caesarea
Germanicus suddenly discovers some terraced gardens in Jerusalem, by tumbling off them. Splat.
Change Ravenna to a settler
Siege of Athens continues:
4/4 Leg vs 3/3 Hop -> 2/3 Hop
4/5 Leg vs 2/3 Hop -> 4/5 Hop, burning down Athens

(9) 30 AD
Found Tarentum
Found Nicomedia in Athen's old spot
Turn lux down to 30%
Siege of Argos:
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Hop -> 4/4 Horse
4/4 Horse vs 3/3 Hop -> 4/5 Horse, razing it for 6 (!) sacrifical slaves

Some notes:
-We should use some of our cash to rush libraries and markets, we'll need to do our own research again soon.
-Send settlers east to fill in the Greek lands, they are gassed. We also need workers to cut a road over those mountains. I've started near Syracuse
-We have a nice stack near Tarentum, burn Paris!
-The landmass to the east looks like a thin barren strip, you can see the coast behind some of thouse mountains. It's literally swarming with barbarians, and I've spotted 2 named impis so far: Northern Pike and Grahamian.
-The Babylonian forces at Byzantium isn't much of a threat. They approcah, get bombed, and retreat.
-Beware the Hoplite near Hispalis
-We have a ton of Elites. It's almost unlucky that I didn't get a second leader in the end..

Firaxis: 555, Jason 272

 

[dmanakho]

Cool!!!
i will play tonight.... we have around 8 hours for the suggestions and recomendations...
I believe we will be getting another leader soon, and if i don't get it Wotan certainly will.
Tarkeel have few quite good ones. If i can i will burn Paris.
Too bad AIs went for invention instead of chivalry, I reckon it will take another 10+ turns before we get chivalry with all the total wars on our continent..
You mentioned those barbarians, I wonder whether that is where we need to solve the puzzle of the game....
I am at work for another 4 hours so i am not going to be able to look at the map until later...

 

[smackster]

Nice turns, there was some serious city razing going on there.

I have not looked at the save, but suggest we don't build too many Markets/Libraries, only build them in cities that can a) build them quick, b) give us real value for them. So the Markets should only be build in the biggest cities (actually wont even help us before we get the extra luxuries hooked up), and libraries only if we absolutely need culture expansion (although a settler is cheaper), or in our best commerce producers only.

The bottom line is keep pumping out horses, just because we seem to have a lot in the field does not mean we should slow down building them.

Also keep pumping, settlers/workers.

Edit : Can somebody post a map for those of us at work

 

[Wotan]

Well done, Tarkeel!
I guess the Greeks will be gone by the time I get to play. And I will play tomorrow. I have to pop in at the office for a moment tomorrow but that will not in any way disrupt the more important issue of doing my turns. I do enjoy this game, nothing much to enjoy outside, raining again today. Yesterday was the only day of sunshine we have had this july. At least my wife found it pleasing as she turned the big 4-0 on the only sunny day. She was adamant it was due to her birthday too.

@Dmanakho: Fill out previously greek lands, be aware of potential RCP10 sites and sites for future rings around FP if you move north. I have posted a few maps with potential sites above.

 

[dmanakho]

We won't need marketplaces until later in the game when population grows way above 6, we have at least 4lux to benefit from markets and we need money to research ourselves.
There are 2 additional lux on greek territories we will be able to connect in not very far future and that would be probably a good turning point to start building markets.
I can suggest rather if we want to build markets now do it one at a time, that is only one city at a time builds marketplace, once it's built another can start... This way we will make progress with infrastructure, but it won't bug down our unit production much.

EDIT: As for the libraries...... Hmm.... we will need them at some point.... I guess....probably....may be....not sure....well.... i certainly won't start building a single library in our core cities during my turns

 

[smackster]

I agree with the one at a time build idea, for Markets/Libraries in core cities.

I assume that we need Navigation to get to the other continent, we wont get that from the GL, so will need to get back to research at some point. So although we don't need any libraries now, we want to have them in place at the point that we start researching again. But I'd still only build them in a select few cities, that have very high commerce and maybe not for a while.

Marketplaces do at least give us a gold boost now, and in those very large cities (we have some size 7 already) when we hook up the luxes we'll get more happiness.

I do think that getting our FP site up and running is better value overall.

 

[smackster]

We won't need marketplaces until later in the game when population grows way above 6, we have at least 4lux to benefit from markets and we need money to research ourselves.

Actually although its true that we don't need the marketplace (with 4 lux) to keep the city content, those extra happy faces adds a lot to the score. So its worth building them in those size 8+ cities to keep all 8 happy.

 

[Tarkeel]

Only some of the largest cities have/are building markets. Only border cities are building libraries now, and that is to grab more land.

Greece will probably survive to you Wotan, they have 3 cities left in the north part of their empire. The southern area is just about cleansed though.

@Wotan: Weather has been rather bad this side of the mountains as well, but has been some sun here today atleast.

 

[DeceasedHorse]

RE: Navigation/The Great Lighthouse.
Like I said, it has been my experiance, at least in the more recent GOTM's that i've actually played in, that it is usually not neccessary to build the Great Lighthouse or get navigation in order to get contact with othe continents because of how the maps are edited. I do not know if this is the case in the earlier GOTM's like the one this is based on.

I agree that we need marketplaces, both for score purposes and to generate sufficent cash. We will also need to start doing our own research at some point, whether it is to get up to Navigation or to nab military tradition, making libraries a worthwhile investement, especially in core cities. I do not think that we will be able to kill off everyone on our continent before someone researches education and obsoletes the Great Library, so the chances of us doing a GL slingshot arn't that great.