SGOTM4 - Team Ivan

[mad-bax]

SGOTM4 - Game Thread.

Hi everyone, and welcome to your game thread.

Here is the start position.

Note: EVERYONE has to install the correct resource graphics whether or not they have played this scenario or GOTM before. If you haven't done it yet, you had better get a wriggle on.

The saves will be available once the timelock has been released tonight (19th September).

Here are some links you might find useful.

The original GOTM28 Announcement.
The Draft Constitution
The GOTM Reference Thread.
SGOTM4 - Maintenance Thread
Download latest Save.
Upload a Save.

This Months' sponsored variant is 5 City Challenge the rules for which are as follows.

1. You may not end a turn with more than 5 cities.

Team Leaders: It would be a good idea to PM your team mates to get them all checked in here as soon as is possible.

Good luck everyone!

 

[rrau]

checking in

 

[I. Larkin]

Check in. Dowloaded files. Not sure, that it will work.
Will try hard. Who'd like to start? My suggestions to start:
Worker-East to mine-road BG, Settler NE and found Deli.
Research: Writing at minimum. Build order: 3-4 warriors to scout everywhere,
then settler.
Check around your posts. Looks that team have avarage Emperor level.
Sounds good. Who feel himself as Emperor+ or Diety- level? May be he/she will start? I think rrau will be third (in the middle), and I'd like to be fourth in the roster.
Who'd like to be fifth?
Regards, Ivan.

 

[TheNemesis666]

checking in, I'm comfortable in emperor and struggle on demigod but can win. Don't know that I want first though.

EDIT: Actually this is vanilla we're talking about, I used to play emp on vanilla, never tried deity. (back then emp was still a challenge for me)
and I agree on the opening moves suggested.

 

[dcstevez]

Checking in. I'm also comfortable on emporer but I can't win deity. I like moving the worker east but I'm not sure where the settler should go yet. In my mind there's a decision between NE, SE and staying put depending on what the worker can see. We're playing the variant right?

I can't start, I'll be out of town tonight but I'll be back tomorrow. The push for writing does sound exciting... do you think that we won't need a granary because of the variant?

 

[AdrianE]

Checking in

I did start this GOTM but never finished it.

What victory conditions do you want to go after? Culture 20K and/or diplomacy work with 5CC. Conquest would be extraordinarily difficult. Domination is out with 5 cities. Space is also difficult.

We will need a port city. Probably one at the end of the river.

Adrian

 

[I. Larkin]

Checking in

I did start this GOTM but never finished it.

What victory conditions do you want to go after? Culture 20K and/or diplomacy work with 5CC. Conquest would be extraordinarily difficult. Domination is out with 5 cities. Space is also difficult.

We will need a port city. Probably one at the end of the river.

Adrian

OK. Problem with SG that fourth player should be tough negotiator to trade writing for good price. If nobody want to start I can, but somebody must take trade responcibility then. I never tried 20K victory, I think about Conquest, (Possible at Monarch 3CC), Diplo or Space (possible at OCC at Monarch). Sure, we need costal City.
BTW, Starting position works at my computer finally.
Ivan.

 

[dcstevez]

Ok, I'm going to visit my sick grandfather in 30 minutes. I'll be available to play some turns tomorrow and I'd be willing to do the trading and I think I could do a good job but this IS my first SGOTM.

I feel like getting a 20k win would be the easiest way to go. I'm sure we have some help for our starting location in the fog. I would personally be more excited by one of the other victory conditions. For now it looks like we should move our worker one space east and then possibly stop to consider our best start location which is probably either NE or SE. I agree with doing the writing gambit, starting by building mostly warriors for exploring and trying to grow our city as fast as possible. If we have any wheat, cattle, game or wine I want to irrigate it as soon as possible... city placement should take this into consideration. I also think we should initially use the luxury slider very liberally to allow our military units to explore while the city continues to grow and produce. That's my piece. Good Luck to everyone.

 

[AdrianE]

We don't know the landmass. Map making could be vital if we are on continents or archipelago. Not so vital if we are on pangea.

We are india. That means Russia (if they are in the game) would have pottery to trade. The decision on which tech to research depends on who are likely neighbours are and what they'll have to trade. If Russia isn't in the game then maybe we should research pottery.

Other likely neighbours are Japan, China, Persia which are some fairly aggressive civs.

I can start if you'd like.

However it is important to decide the desired victory conditions prior to start. If we go 20K then we will need to pump 1 city fast by merging in workers. If we go diplomacy, we will need to maintain our reputation and collect vast amounts of $. If we are going conquest, we will need to decide archer rush, or warrior to sword upgrade, or horsemen.

Obviously with 5CC we will want good placement of cities to have maximum growth. That means no overlapping tiles in my mind. So RCP of at least 5 (ie OCP).

Conquest is my least preferred objective as we just finished a big warmongering SG.

Also how do you guys feel about some of the questionable but allowed tactics? ie resource disconnection, palace jumping etc. Personally I don't like them. My last team had no problems using/abusing these. It was part of the reason why I left them.

Adrian

 

[AdrianE]

I picked up the save and had a look.

We are the Carthaginians (neoCarthage) not the Indians. We are Industrious and Commercial. We know masonry and Alphabet.

From the space race screen our rivals are:
India
Greece
Ottomans
Rome
Babylon
Persia
Vikings (only expansionist, I think)
Keltoi
Germany

If we want an early granary we will have to research it ourselves. The vikings are likely far away.

Ivan's proposed opening is as good as any other.

Adrian

 

[rrau]

I also, would prefer to avoid conquest victory condition. I would like to try any of the others, but I think culture is probably going to be the easiest to achieve.

Do we really need an early granary at the expense of delaying research of writing? Also, if we decide to go for 20K victory, one of the earliest available wonders is pyramids. We should be able to start it when we want since we start with masonry.

Also workers are very cheap to buy in vanilla civ

@AdrianE - we shouldn't need/want to palace jump in a 5CC. Also if we avoid a warmongering game, we should be able to avoid disconnecting/reconnecting resources. (I usually tend not to do this as I'm usually short of workers and can't afford to have a stack dedicated to this strategy)

 

[TheNemesis666]

Palace jumping is not something I normally do but probably won't be needed anyway in this game. (unless we want to play musical palaces
I'm not a big fan of resource disconnection either. I have nothing against postponing a connection to build some cheaper units but once I've connected it I normally leave it hooked up.
In regards to position, if when the worker moves e you see something worthwhile, save and post a screenie if you like for discussion. Let us know roughly when you will be playing and I'll keep an eye on the thread so I can respond fairly quickly. (of course I'm in aus so let me know when you think you'll play and I'll let you know if i'll be in bed or not)

 

[I. Larkin]

Since we play 5CC we do not need settler factory and can wait with Pottery.
If we want 20k victory we need good second City ASAP. I think, however that Conquest or Diplo will faster win then 20K. Anyhow we want Litracy ASAP for early Libs. (100% research I think).
Hope we take pottery and CB from somebody soon. Looking at minimap we should scout mainly south.
Proposed play order
1. AndreanE (20 turns)
2. dcstevez (10)
3. rrau (10)
4. I. Larkin (10)
5. TheNemesis666. (10)
Let us know that it is OK.
Regards, Ivan.

 

[TheNemesis666]

I'm happy with order.

 

[rrau]

I'm happy with the order, too.

 

[I. Larkin]

I'm happy with the order, too.

Good. If AndrianE happy as well he may start.
Good luck.
Ivan

 

[AdrianE]

That's OK by me.

Adrian

 

[AdrianE]

We have a cow and the coast in sight after the worker move.

www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SG4_Ivan_open.jpg

My resources.pcx file is messed up. I'll have to fix that later. Anyway that splotchy thing is a cow.

Thoughts on where to settle?

 

[dcstevez]

I'm happy with the order.

I don't feel too strongly about this... but I think that the bonus tile on the coast is the strongest spot. The only problem is that the spot is almost ideal for a 20k city. I often build a 20k with my capital city but it can be pretty risky both early when your military is weak and your expansion is slow and later when you can't use a palace prebuild. I guess I consider this a problem because I feel like we're not likely to find another river/ocean/cow spot very close by.

I think the next move should be settler SE, worker S. Depending on what you see you could either build on the forest off the coast or move to the coast on top of the BG. Then the worker can develop the cow right away. We're industrious right? We don't want to build on the forest north of the river because we'll miss the cow for 10 crucial turns and all our units will end up having to cross the river the whole game.

As for victory conditions. I'm happy not doing a Conquest. Perhaps we could wait on 20k decision until we see what second city options we have. For now let's build the city, research writing and build warriors to explore.

 

[TheNemesis666]

(sorry it was 3:00am here when you posted the pic)
hmm, we could put the 20k city on the costal forrest and let a culture expansion pick up the cow. Takes a little longer to get the cow but means we still have the BG. Also I figure we don't really need the cow for our capital as we're not going to have to build many settlers.

edit: i'm happy with settler SE and worker to the cow next turn to scout. (until I remembered we might be going 20k I had thought the forrest SE was the best position)