SGOTM5 - Team jeffelammar

[jeffelammar]

so, a size 12 city with 11 natural citizens and 1 foreign will produce a lot more points per turn than one with 6 natural and 6 foreign. therefore, it is advantageous to taxstarve all foreigner cities captured militarily till size 1, then build the pop back up. any cities taken for peace automatically get our nationality so no reason to starve them.

I fully understand what you are saying. All I'm saying is that I didn't know that there was a special exclusion for foreign citizens. Guess that is one more thing I learned today

 

[grahamiam]

I fully understand what you are saying. All I'm saying is that I didn't know that there was a special exclusion for foreign citizens. Guess that is one more thing I learned today

actaully, i reread that thread and now i'm not sure aw, crap, i thought i read a post somewhere in gotm by sir pleb or another dignitary that recommended taxstarving for lowered flip risks and for score, but i may be all wet.

 

[jeffelammar]

actaully, i reread that thread and now i'm not sure aw, crap, i thought i read a post somewhere in gotm by sir pleb or another dignitary that recommended taxstarving for lowered flip risks and for score, but i may be all wet.

I'll run some experiments this evening to check on it. I'm flying to CA tonight, so I'll have plenty of time to try these things out while waiting in the airport.

 

[CKS]

Starving for reduced flip risk is a wonderful thing, but I've never heard of a score difference. I'll be interested to find out what you learn, jeff.

Anyway, your plans sound good, denyd. Interesting idea about Bach's. It would be nice to get someone else to build it and take it from them, but that may not be feasible, as others are losing building capacity as we destroy them. I think that 600 shields would be better used for units, though. Instead, we could increase our lux tax when we are done upgrading, to get roughly the same effect using cash instead of shields.

I didn't see any Samurai, just swords and maybe one MI from Japan. However, they weren't likely to be wandering my way, either.

I'd use a leader for an army. We can't use it on a wonder, and courthouses are still so few shields that they seem a waste of a leader. We will have cossacks soon, and a cossack army would be a nice increase in power over a knight army.

 

[denyd]

Two quick points before I start.

My thoughts about Bach would have included us building it with a leader (forgot we can't )

The point in starving down the town for score is the foreign faces aren't worth any points and increase the flip potential. If you take a size 6 city, you'll have 5 foreign faces eating the available food. If there's not a lot of grassland (like in this game), population growth well be slow. If on the other hand, you starve the city down to size 1 (should take about 4 turns), you can start adding native citizens quickly and the city should be able to get back to size 6 in about 30-40 turns and those 5 new faces all are worth points.

I'll post my play results from tonight later tonight.

 

[grahamiam]

tax starving also gives you some gpt as well

i often que up a worker in resisting cities, that way, if it takes more than 10 turns to quell resistance and starve it, i can also get a worker out of the deal. rushing settlers is also a good one but we can't do that here

 

[denyd]

Turn Log 5

Turn 0 – 950 AD – Wake up a pair of pikes in non-coastal cities and send them to coastal cities. Wake our elites and send them to the front – Change the scout build to a barracks – Spend 150g to hurry a barracks in Entremont (that will allow for upgrades) – Sign peace with India getting Houston + Jaipur + 11g + 17gpt + WM – Trade Wool to India for ROP – Switch St.Louis & Chittagong to barracks & Dacca to a library

IBT: Lose a knight to Celtic archer – Beijing knight->knight – Entremont barracks->catapult – Nanking knight->knight – Tsingtao knight->musket – Murcia knight->musket – Japan starts Sistine Chapel in Edo – India starts Leo’s in Delhi

Turn 1 – 960 AD – Assault on Mohacs: Vet Knight(2/4) kills Reg Spear – Southern troops advancing on Mohacs – Northern troops moving towards Spain

IBT: Lose our wines deal – Discover Metallurgy research Military Tradition due in 6 (@ -3gpt) – Zimbabwe riots over lose of luxury – Moscow knight->knight – Oslo knight->musket – Bengal warrior->harbor – Japan starts Leo’s in Kyoto (that’s 2 of 6 core cities building wonders)

Turn 2 – 970 AD – Upgrade 6 catapults to cannons in Entremont – Assault on Mohacs: Horse Army(14/14) kills Reg Spear – Vet Knight (2/4) kills Reg Spear capturing Mohacs & 2 slaves) – Heading to Lugdunum: Vet Knight (2/4) kills Reg spear and captures 2 slaves – Trade Chemistry to France for Education + WM + 35g – Trade Chemistry to Iroquois for Wines + WM + 13g – Spend 48g to build an Embassy in Washington – Trade Wool to America to sign ROP

IBT: No counterattacks – Zimbabwe barracks->musket – Shanghai knight->knight

Turn 3 – 980 AD – Assault on Lugdunum: Knight Army (11/13) kills Reg Spear – Vet Knight (2/4) kills Reg Spear and Lugdunum is captured and the weak Celts are destroyed – Knight kills BV (+25g) – begin positioning troops for Japan & Spain

IBT: Aztecs kick out a knight caught in a culture expansion – Karakorum library->barracks – Canton knight->knight – Chittagong barrack->musket

Turn 4 – 990 AD – Knight Army blocked at chokepoint by American MDI – Assembling troops for Japan in the south

IBT: Aztecs plant a pair of cities in our southern lands and a pair of Japanese settlers are roaming around – the American MDI did not move – Nidaros musket->musket – Bjoegvin harbor->musket – Calcutta flips to India taking a vet pike with it – Nanking knight->knight – Hlobane library->barracks

Turn 5 – 1000 AD – Not much action, just a lot of troop movements, hoping that American MDI will move

IBT: The American MDI has moved – Beijing knight->knight – Moscow knight->knight – Tsingtao musket->musket – Southend warrior->barracks – St. Louis barracks->musket

Turn 6 – 1010 AD – Here we go: Declare war on Japan – Elite Horseman (5/5) kills LB

IBT: No Japanese counterattack – Bapedi barracks->musket – Ta-tu barracks->courthouse – Ishandhlanda knight->knight – Mpondo harbor->barracks – Tugela barracks->musket

Turn 7 – 1020 AD – Knight Army (9/13) kills to Reg Spears and Edo is captured – Elite Horse(5/5) kills LB – Elite Knight (4/5) kills Reg Spear and captures 2 slaves – Vet Knight (2/4) kills Reg Spear and captures 2 slaves

IBT: Vet Knight (3/5) defends against LB and promotes – Renew peace deal with America – Discover Military Tradition research Banking at minimum (1 scientist) – Linkoping library->barracks – Camulodunum warrior->library

Turn 8 – 1030 AD – Declare war on Spain: Vet Knight (5/5) defeats Reg Spear and Toledo is captured – Assault on Nara: Cannons remove 2HP – Elite MDI (4/5) kill Reg Pike – Elite MDI (4/5) kills Reg Spear and Nara is captured – Knight Army (3/13) loses 10hp killing Vet LB of a plains – Upgrade our first pair of vet knights to Cossacks

IBT: Lose an Elite Knight to a Vet MDI (1/4) – Shanghai Cossack->Cossack – Kazan library->court – Nanking Cossack-Cossack – Murcia musket->musket – Dacca library->barracks – Indus library->worker

Turn 9 – 1040 AD – Vet Knight (3/4) kills Vet MDI – Assault on Kagoshima: Vet Knight(3/4) kills Reg Spear and Kagoshima is captured – Assault on Madrid: Knight Army (8/13) kill Vet Pike – Vet Knight loses to Vet Spear (1/4) – Vet MDI (4/4) kills Vet Spear and Madrid with Colossus is captured – Assault on Yokohama: Vet Knight (1/4) kills Reg Spear and Yokohama with 2 slaves is captured – 4 more knights upgraded

IBT: America steals the home island iron – Cleo ejects our spearman and then trades WM for TM – Nidaros musket->musket – Moscow Cossack->Cossack – Oslo musket->musket – Jaipur warrior->barracks – Houston warrior->barracks – Palace Expansion gets a third floor

Turn 10 – 1050 AD – Assault on Kyoto: Knight Army (8/13) kills Vet Pike – Vet Knight (3/4) kills Vet Pike – Vet Knight loses to Vet MDI (1/4) – Vet knight loses to Reg Spear (1/3) – Vet Knight (3/4) kills Vet MDI – Elite Horse (3/5) kills Reg Spear and Kyoto with Sun Tzu’s Art of War & The Great Wall is captured – Vet Knight (4/4) kills Vet MDI

After action notes: Keep hammering on Japan, no Samurais seen yet. Taking Osaka will take away their iron. 2 knights heading for Nagasaki and 1 knight & 1 Cossack about to leave a galley next to Shimonoseki (that means silks once it has a harbor) – 2 MDI & Wounded Knight Army about to attack Barcelona (Reg Pike showing), only Seville left after that. 6 Jumbos went past Madrid heading west, I hope not after a very weak Egypt. I wanted us to get there first. After Japan is gone, it’s time to take on the Aztecs. They’ve got a couple of new cities and at least 1 settler wandering around in our area. I’ve been running minimum science and have more than enough to upgrade what’s left of our Vet Knights, it might be time to turn science back on. No one else has metallurgy yet, so it could be awhile before they get cavalry. Taking Kyoto with Sun Tzu's means that all those barracks builds should be changed, but I'll let the next player handle that

We managed to gain 2 points on Team Smackster (now 20 behind).

 

[grahamiam]

i cannot play till Monday night so I need a swap.

 

[CKS]

Nice job, denyd.

Sun Tzu's on the long island is nice.

Do we want to research any more? If we can get the 1 tile islands other ways, I don't see much reason to. I'd rather rush units (and libraries for cultural expansions for score) with the cash we save.

I may not be able to check in until Monday.

 

[jeffelammar]

Nice job, denyd.

Sun Tzu's on the long island is nice.

Agreed. That is one wonderful score.

I think that we are probably all immersed in family this weekend. I could probably play Sunday night, but if Grahamiam is going to go Monday, I say just keep our regular order and don't worry about pushing it.

Merry Christmas to all of you. (And if you don't celebrate Christmas, have a great day however you choose to spend it.)

Jeff

 

[bed_head7]

Do you think there is a possibility that Team smackster already finished? There graph hasn't changed in a long while.

 

[jeffelammar]

Do you think there is a possibility that Team smackster already finished? There graph hasn't changed in a long while.

Based on year and score I would guess that they decided to take a break overy the holidays.

Just guessing though.

 

[bed_head7]

They also have started a game for Team smackster in the SG forum, and I thought that might be because their SGOTM had finished. Anyway, it isn't a big deal, just an observation.

 

[grahamiam]

Preflight check: Rush a few Cossacks around the FP core. Trade WM’s around for mucho dinero. Rush a court in Zimbabwe and a library in Stockholm

IBT: Beijing Cossack -> Cossack; Zimbabwe court -> market (and all 12 can work); Canton Cossack -> cossack; Stockholm library -> harbor; Tsingtao Cossack -> Cossack

T1: 1060AD Japanese Front: Upgrade a bunch of knights on their way to the Japanese front. Decide to switch Beijing to a worker as we don’t have enough back there and the city is over-irrigated now that it’s at size 12. Also, a lot of foreign workers head back towards the FP core to correct this problem.
Setup to take Tokyo next turn.
On the Spanish front: At Barcelona: Army kills pike and we take the town + settler.

IBT: Lose a Cossack to a Jap MDI
Beijing worker -> Cossack; Ulundi court -> market; Nanking Cossack -> Cossack

T2: 1070AD Japanese front: @ Nagasaki: knight kills spear (2/4); 4/5 knight kills spear and we take the town.
@ Shimonoseki: Cossack kills horseman and we enter our GA! We take the town, sinking a galley
@ Tokyo: horseman Army kills spear and we take the town + worker
Spanish front: @ Seville: Knight army kills spear and we take the town, destroying the Spanish.

IBT: Shanghai Cossack -> Cossack; Indus worker -> worker

T3: 1080AD Moving troops up to the front lines. Egyptian troops are healing. Japanese troops are blocked by Iroquois units.

IBT: Beijing Cossack -> Cossack; Moscow Cossack -> Cossack; Canton Cossack -> Cossack; Nanking Cossack -> Cossack; Newcastle spear -> Lib
Arabs complete Sistine’s

T4: 1090AD Japanese Front: @ Osaka: Cossack kills spear (3/4); Cossack kills spear and we take the town (1/4) + worker
Build an embassy with the Iroquois (due to border issue, I want an RoP with them). Sign RoP with Iro, giving them gems.
Rush Library in Lug so I can begin the setup on the Aztecs.

IBT: Barb galley sinks a galley near dyetown; Nidaros court -> Cossack; London lib -> market; Bjoergvin Cossack -> ‘duct; Shanghai Cossack -> Cossack; Isandlhwana Cossack -> Cossack; Lugdunum lib -> market; buffalo lib -> musket; Darhan lib -> harbor; Indus worker -> worker

T5: 1100AD Still setting up. Moving thru the Jap jungle is not fun but we should take 2 towns next turn. Also, I’m getting some more units over to the Egyptian area so we can start taking towns there.

IBT: Beijing Cossack -> Cossack; Moscow Cossack -> Cossack; Canton Cossack -> Cossack; Tsingtao Cossack -> Cossack; Coventry spear -> lib; Tugela musket -> harbor

T6: 1110AD Japanese front: @ Izuma: Cossack kills spear (3/4); Cossack kills spear and promotes (2/5) and we take the town
@ Satsuma: Cossack kills spear (3/4); Cossack redlines but dies to spear; Cossack kills spear and we take the town. They are down to an OCC.
Sign RoP with Aztecs for Invention

IBT: renew peace with England; Madrid worker -> worker; Nidaros Cossack -> Cossack; Shanghai Cossack -> Cossack; Bapedi ‘duct -> market; Nanking Cossack -> Cossack; Warwick lib -> duct; Indus warrior -> barracks; Yokoho spear -> barracks; Shimonoseki warrior -> harbor; Americans finish Leo’s;

T7: 1120AD DoW on the Aztecs: @ Entremont: Cossack kills Aztec MDI, netting 2 slaves
@ Tlatelolco: Knight army kills spear (13/13); Cossack redlines but kills spear
@ Teotihuacan: Cossack kills pike (2/4); Cossack kills spear (4/4); Cossack kills spear (3/4); Cossack kills MDI and we take the town + 4 slaves
@ Texacoco: Cossack kills spear and we take the town.
@ Tenochtitlan: Knight army kills pike (5/13); Cossack kills pike and we take the city (1/4) Outside of town: Cossack dies to MDI (1/4); Cossack kills MDI (4/4)
On Egyptian front: 2 more Cossack have arrived so it’s time to stop dilly-dallying. Build an embassy in Thebes and see that there are only 2 spears defending.
DoW on Egypt: @ Thebes: Cossack kills spear (4/4); Cossack kills spear and we take the town.
Position 2 Cossacks for Giza next turn.

IBT: Beijing Cossack -> Cossack; Zimbabwe market -> Cossack; Moscow Cossack -> Cossack; Oslo market -> Cossack; Ulundi market -> Cossack; Murcia market -> cossack

T8: 1130AD On the Japanese front: In Aztec lands, ¾ Cossack kills warrior, netting 2 slaves (2/4)
@ Nagoya: elite knight dies to spear; elite horse kills spear (3/5), leaving a 2/4 spear on top.
@ Tlactopan: raze it with a Cossack (2/4)
On the Egyptian front: @ Giza: Cossack kills spear (2/4); Cossack kills spear and we take the town.
Disband warrior in Chittagong to get musket next turn.

IBT: Shanghai Cossack -> Cossack; Canton Cossack -> Cossack; Nanking Cossack -> Cossack; Chittagong musket -> harbor; Liverpool lib -> worker

T9: 1140AD On Japanese front: @Nagayo: elite Cossack kills spear (2/5) and we take the town, destroying the Japanese
On the Aztec front: @ Tlaxcala: Cossack kills spear and promotes (3/5); Cossack kills spear and we take the town.
Nearby: Cossack kills spear and captures a worker and settler and promotes (4/5); Cossack kills LB
On the Egyptian front: @ Elephantine: Cossack kills spear and we take the town.
Looks like the Iroquois are up to something but not sure what. Start to funnel their troops so we can nail them next turn.
Sell Chivalry to England for 1gpt and 53g so we can short rush 1 more Cossack.

IBT: Beijing Cossack -> Cossack; Nidaros Cossack -> Cossack; Moscow musket -> Cossack; Ulundi Cossack -> Cossack; Isand Cossack -> Cossack; Tsingtao Cossack -> Cossack; Ngome harbor -> musket

T10: 1150AD On Egyptian front: @ Memphis: Cossack kills spear and we take the town + 5 workers
@ Pi-Ramesses: Cossack kills spear and we take the town.

I’m not attacking anymore Aztec towns as I want the last one for peace.
I am suspicious of the Iroquois as they have a lot of fast units in our land, seemingly looking for empty towns. I was trying to get the front stabilized before declaring and picking off those units.
I’m not sure what to do with the Egyptians. Obviously, don’t take the capitol. We need to get their 1 tile island for peace. Imho, get as many island towns as possible for peace, then start going after the Americans.
We are up to about 50 cossacks. Recommend we keep short rushing them via muskets with 10% research on.
I'm very tired so please go thru the builds very thoroughly.
good luck

 

[jeffelammar]

Ok, I got it. I haven't opened the save, but things look great. It is a bit late right now, so I'll download the save in the morning and take a look. From the strategic map and the turn log it looks like the first thing to do is to make sure we have the iroquois units covered and then start the campaign against them.

I can't really tell what is going on in the short island, but I guess we will have to keep pushing there as well.

I'll probably sneak off into a back room and play tomorrow afternoon. I should be able to fend off the family long enough.

Please let me know if you have any more suggestions/ideas.

 

[grahamiam]

dear jeff,
look at the roads very closely. we need to straighten them out, beginning SE of London (iirc).
the short island is going well, but you'll be up against jungles and mountains now. i've left a couple cossacks with movement in case you want to redirect them against america. egypt is a complete pushover and probably should be ignored for a little while, making america the next logical target. i've also setup a ship-chain between our original island and the spanish town of madrid (i think?).
but, your right, the real goal is the iroquois. thier knights are on poor defensive territory now so if you want to attack them on the ibt, you can, though you are not setup for an rop rape.
aztecs are down to 2towns and i was hoping to get one for peace but you could probably take the one on the long island with a cossack or 2 (and a bunch are in the area).
good luck

 

[denyd]

Excellant turnset G-Man

No more Spain and Japan, Aztecs & Egypt on the ropes and we're now in our golden age. I agree with putting Egypt on the back burner. Maybe keep a couple of Cossacks pillaging until she's ready to give up the 1-tile island. Same for the Aztecs, take a city for peace. There's no reason to honor the peace treaties at this point (is there?), then take the last city to remove flip risks. We probably need to get a couple of galleys to the west. There are some miscellaneous cities on the mountain island that will need to be razed to complete the win and now is as good a time as any.

It's time for Jeff

 

[jeffelammar]

The Save File

Quick Summary Iroquois are on the ropes. Some progress on the American front.

We are allied with France against Arabia.

I hooked up the 8th Luxury as well.

Turn Log

Turn 0 - 1150 AD Spend a lot of time pondering. In then end made several Micromanagement and build changes. During my turns I did a lot of short rushing, but do not mention it here.

IBT: Renew peace with India. Iroquois start JSBach.

Turn 1 - 1160 AD Peace with Aztecs for last city.

IBT: Refuse to sign ROP with India. I won't be ready to attack them that soon anyway.
French build JSBach in Lyons.

Turn 2 - 1170 AD Keep preparing for ROP abuse of Iroquois.
IBT: Not much cancel ROP with America (Hind sight says I should have rop raped them too, but Oh well)

Turn 3 - 1180 AD DOW Americia
Attack Chicago. Kill 3 spears and take it.

IBT: Arrabs demand Furs. Refuse. They Declare war.

Turn 4 - 1190 AD Continue prep for ROP on Iro.

IBT: Palace gets spires, 3rd floor and 2 second floors on wings.

Turn 5 - 1200 AD
Sign Military Alliance with France against Arabia (pay them dyes and gems)
DOW Iroquois.
Battle of Alexandria (Kill spear with elite Cossack take it)
Battle of New York - Kill 2 spears.
Battle of Akwesasa - Kill 2 pikes and take it.
Battle of Tonawonda - cossack retreats, kill 2 pikes and take it.
Battle of Niagra Falls - Lose cossack, kill pike, retreat 2 cossacks, kill 2 pikes and take it.
Clear the Iroquois from our lands.

IBT: Cossack kills american knight.

Turn 6 - 1210 AD
Battle of Cattaraugus - Knight army kills 2 spears, Cossack kills Longbow ant takes it.
Battle of New York - Kill 2 spears. retreat.
Battle of New Orleans - raze it with cossack.
Battle of Bahlk - take it with cossack.

IBT: America takes Jaipur Forgot to rush more defense. Doh.

Turn 7 - 1220 AD
Battle of Asyut - Cossack kills spear and takes it.
Battle of Oil Springs - Kill 2 spears and take it.

IBT: Discover banking -> Astronomy

Turn 8 - 1230 AD
Battle of New York - kill spear, retreat from spear, kill sword. So close.
Battle of Salamanca - Won't jump to isle, so attack. Kill 4 pikes and take it.
Battle of Grand River - Lose cossack, kill pike, lose 2 cossacks, retreat 2 more, kill 2 pikes and take it (Damn that one pike was on a streak)
Battle of St. Regis - lose Cossack, kill 2 pikes and take it.

IBT:zzzzz

Turn 9 - 1240 AD
Battle of Allegheny - Kill pike, retreat, kill pike, kill spear and take city.
Battle of Heliopolis - Tke it. Avaris is Egyptian capitol.
Battle of New York - kill Musket, kill spear, kill 2 MIs, Kill archer, take New York (finally) and get Leonardos.
Battle of Merw - Kill 2 spears and take it.

IBT: zzzzz
Turn 10 - 1250 AD
Battle of Mauch Chunk: lose 2 cossacks, kill 2 pikes and a spear. Take it.
Battle of Atlanta: kill pike and spear. retreat 2 cossacks.

After Action report
Not as much as I wanted, but some fun turns.

France is at war with Arabia. It was my intention to backstab them in the next few turns. This will catch their forces on the far side of their nation.
Neither Egypt nor the Iroquois have yet been willing to part with their 1 square towns.
For the Iroquois town I suggest rushing some galleys and starving it. I rushed the first one this turn.
For the Egypt one, I started moving cossacks on the western edge of the long isle into position to ferry over to the mountanous area near the new Egyptian capitol. I suggest we get 5 or 6 cossacks over there to clean up. (I had about that many headed toward the pick up point on the nw tip.)
I realized that I forgot to quell resistance in Cattaraugus, so send a cossack to whip them into shape.
Merw is rioting, I uploaded the save and then realized I hadn't fixed that.
Don't attack Centralia. I pillaged most of it's improvements, but I think the Iroquois 1 square city is the next in line for their capitol, so we can't take it.
I left a little money to $$$ rush stuff. I suggest using all cash at this point to rush stuff on the short island. America just started showing Muskets, so this could get painful.

 

[grahamiam]

very nice progress jeff muskets just mean more fun can we see thier salt? while killing egypt is fun, we'll finish faster if we concentrate on india and america 1st, since they are stronger. i doubt egypt will ever mount any significant threat, but india and america will be a real pain if they reach the IA or start fielding frigates.

 

[jeffelammar]

very nice progress jeff muskets just mean more fun can we see thier salt?

Their salt is on the far edge. We could send something over there to pillage it, but I needed everything just to take New York.

while killing egypt is fun, we'll finish faster if we concentrate on india and america 1st, since they are stronger. i doubt egypt will ever mount any significant threat, but india and america will be a real pain if they reach the IA or start fielding frigates.

I agree. All short island builds and home island builds should go against america and india.
What I was proposing, was a force of 6 cossacks from the long island to move up and start killing the Egyptians on the mountainous zone.

In a few minutes I'll post a screenshot explaining my thoughts.