I can only say: Stop being irrational on a SGOTM. It is not fun for the rest of the team when one player does things that ruin/risk ruin the game. We invest a lot of time and effort into this game. You are not only damaging your own game... And in this case it was obviously not only a broken peace but a ROP rape. So that card is now out of the deck for us!!!! That is bad and will cost a few turns at the very least!!!!!tomasjj said:
SGOTM5 - Team Smackster
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Well, honestly, I have messed some things up.
The reputatuon one was bad, hands down.
@smackster:How could France ask me to leave if we HAD a ROP? So I guess I didnt break any ROP with them?
On the other hand, regarding the other issues, I asked for clear instructions since this was complex, I got some major points/advice that I tried to work out.
Too bad I cant keep track of every thought here.
There was quite a bit back and forth on what to do, so in the end I tried to follow the last instructions that smackster gave me.
@wotan:
As for gifted cities to arabia: I read that after declaring war I should wait until we could talk (which was about 4/5 turns), and I tried getting what we had of units in postition for the retake when we were sure to get Fez.
Kyoto: I know its close, but I got some bad rolls. Had one army and 8 or nine knights before attack.
Spain: I was told to focus on Japan, getting Fez and shipping over to Scandy.
France: Was in the process of taking them out.
Worker actions: the workers were clearing and roading near the eastern tip of india when I took over. So, from what I figured, that was the deal around there, to get some better tiles.
Other areas I tried to connect the cities through the mountains like had been started.
Temple in Mempis, sorry about that. Also for the workers around there. I didnt think through why there were piles of workers around there.
I propose that you guys take over, you are better off without me.
JJ
The reputatuon one was bad, hands down.
@smackster:How could France ask me to leave if we HAD a ROP? So I guess I didnt break any ROP with them?
On the other hand, regarding the other issues, I asked for clear instructions since this was complex, I got some major points/advice that I tried to work out.
Too bad I cant keep track of every thought here.
There was quite a bit back and forth on what to do, so in the end I tried to follow the last instructions that smackster gave me.
@wotan:
As for gifted cities to arabia: I read that after declaring war I should wait until we could talk (which was about 4/5 turns), and I tried getting what we had of units in postition for the retake when we were sure to get Fez.
Kyoto: I know its close, but I got some bad rolls. Had one army and 8 or nine knights before attack.
Spain: I was told to focus on Japan, getting Fez and shipping over to Scandy.
France: Was in the process of taking them out.
Worker actions: the workers were clearing and roading near the eastern tip of india when I took over. So, from what I figured, that was the deal around there, to get some better tiles.
Other areas I tried to connect the cities through the mountains like had been started.
Temple in Mempis, sorry about that. Also for the workers around there. I didnt think through why there were piles of workers around there.
I propose that you guys take over, you are better off without me.
JJ
The problem is that if you have units within the country's borders when DoW the AI regard that as a ROP rape. You have to have all units outside borders before DoW! So when the IBT dialogue asked you to leave/DoW, using the DoW option automatically makes it a ROP rape.tomasjj said:
If you did not know this, too bad. But now you know so will hopefully not do it again...
I do not believe you have wandered that far from what we discussed. A few things, but minor stuff really. Nothing we cannot fix.tomasjj said:
I do not have the game active right now but what I remember was that I was a bit surprised you did not have HMs in position for all "retakes" when Arabia was ready to start talking peace with us.tomasjj said:
Keep going at it. You have a few 1hp units there. We might as well risk losing them since the opportunity to take Kyoto will disappear fdr several turns if we fail now.tomasjj said:
Taking out Spain in the process must have been "hidden" within all the other stuff. They only have two cities left, I sent 2 Knights to the central island and built another Galley there to be able to ship more units if needed. And a few of the units waiting for passage to Scandinavia would have been able to move north and take out the last city.tomasjj said:
Then the problem started during Smacksters turns... Well, well...tomasjj said:
We had this problem during our first game together SGOTM3, where someone on the team had a real affection for developing max corruption cities... Don't quit on us now. You are doing just fine. The ROP rape was a low point but if you did not know the mechanics of the game we cannot really hang you too high. Just high enough so your toes reach the ground.tomasjj said:
smackster
SGOTM
You don't need a ROP to break ROP. Be in their land, declare war, ROP reputation brokentomasjj said:
None of us are perfect, we all get criticised on this team when we screw up. These were a very complex set of turns, but sometimes you just have to play it and make the mistakes. Don't fall on your sword, its just a game.tomasjj said:
There were three horses there and two should have been taken from Washington/New York, one horse to take back each city. Its hard to give any more detailed advice than there already is. You have to play what makes sense.tomasjj said:
I don't see the problem here, we have time to get Spain, and there should be more horses coming from the core.tomasjj said:
Its easy to criticise use of workers, don't take it personally, I often have less than optimal use of them, and dman and Wotan always ding me for it.tomasjj said:
We would be better off if the best player played this solo, but the point of the SG is that we play as a team, and that is all that counts.
Don't take any criticism personally, its not like we know each other. Just understand the mistakes and try to learn from it. We all have been and continue to go through that.
smackster
SGOTM
There we go again, and I'm always polite about Wotan's errorsWotan said:Then the problem started during Smacksters turns... Well, well...
I don't understand this without looking at the map, but are you sure those cities are max corruption, they are not that far from the FP?
Sorry, I made that comment as a joke... I just had a SGOTM3 flashback when I wrote the comments on worker useage... I know I did a lot of suboptimum worker action in the past myself, I learnt a lot from Kuningas on that team in SGOTM2.smackster said:There we go again, and I'm always polite about Wotan's errors
I don't understand this without looking at the map, but are you sure those cities are max corruption, they are not that far from the FP?
The question we need to ask before doing something in the game is simply: Will this bring us to victory faster than if I do not do it.
I am not sure about that. The fact that we only play 10 turns makes you focus better during your turns. The discussions between players develop everyones game and help us catch weaknesses and find possibilities.smackster said:
Someone have said that SGOTMs make players play at one level higher than they are capable of in solo games. I agree with this opinion, even if I do not have anything to substantiate my claim by.
tomasjj said:
Nope, we can't do that... FYI, we all getting grilled by each other all the time. If you think you are having hard time, look at the SGOTM3 thread and all the hit i was under.
If somebody messes things up a little or a lot we sure are not going to be shy to tell about it, but that doesn't mean anyone here has something againts you.
So just stay with the team and help us to pull this victory.
smackster
SGOTM
I know you were joking. But I looked and those workers are working in our productive core. The ones near the Indian tip, or where they used to be?Wotan said:
smackster
SGOTM
No you are right, we are better as a team. I thought that as I drove home, if I played this solo, I would have made many, many more mistakes and would probably still be stuck on that island in the middle.Wotan said:
smackster
SGOTM
Views on the save
1) Most important task Arabia
I say getting Fez is No.1 priority, but I want to see if that settler will settle.
So wait one turn for peace. But no more. So take what you can this turn, attack their capital and take whatever other cities you can.
Next turn, if the settler has formed a city, see if we can get Fez and that in peace. If not then keep taking cities until we can get them both. Just be careful not to send the palace to Fez.
As there are many tasks do all the arab moves first each turn.
2) Second most important task Japan,
Kyoto, go for broke, take it this turn, attack this turn before you hit end turn, there are 4 one HP units, against maybe 1 one HP Samurai. Its a risk, but I'd take it.
We should consider abandoning Tokyo, and Osako, both big flips chance (22%/14%), so one of them is sure to flip in the next 3-4 turns, and they are not worth the hassle. Just my opinion. Actually wait and see if you can get Kyoto.
3) Scandy, I think we should send the 2 horses, and 2 knights in the galley over there, and attack Scandy with all those troops. Drop another horse in the army so it has more HP, does not really effect the army attack strength in PTW. That group should do as much damage as they can
Right now we don't have enough troops going down to byblos, to help in the attack, so we need to renew focus on sending troops down there. I think most of the cities on the peninsula can be taken in peace treaties. For instance the 2 Japanese cities can be taken now however, clearly Nagasaki is our priority.
4) Egypt, the Knights in the galley outside Avaris, should be dropped off and destroy Avaris. Put them both back on the galley and send them to Hiearaconopolis.
5) We need to start building more galleys as there are a lot of islands that the AI can go to, near the end of the game it may be tough to find all their settlers in galleys.
1) Most important task Arabia
I say getting Fez is No.1 priority, but I want to see if that settler will settle.
So wait one turn for peace. But no more. So take what you can this turn, attack their capital and take whatever other cities you can.
Next turn, if the settler has formed a city, see if we can get Fez and that in peace. If not then keep taking cities until we can get them both. Just be careful not to send the palace to Fez.
As there are many tasks do all the arab moves first each turn.
2) Second most important task Japan,
Kyoto, go for broke, take it this turn, attack this turn before you hit end turn, there are 4 one HP units, against maybe 1 one HP Samurai. Its a risk, but I'd take it.
We should consider abandoning Tokyo, and Osako, both big flips chance (22%/14%), so one of them is sure to flip in the next 3-4 turns, and they are not worth the hassle. Just my opinion. Actually wait and see if you can get Kyoto.
3) Scandy, I think we should send the 2 horses, and 2 knights in the galley over there, and attack Scandy with all those troops. Drop another horse in the army so it has more HP, does not really effect the army attack strength in PTW. That group should do as much damage as they can
Right now we don't have enough troops going down to byblos, to help in the attack, so we need to renew focus on sending troops down there. I think most of the cities on the peninsula can be taken in peace treaties. For instance the 2 Japanese cities can be taken now however, clearly Nagasaki is our priority.
4) Egypt, the Knights in the galley outside Avaris, should be dropped off and destroy Avaris. Put them both back on the galley and send them to Hiearaconopolis.
5) We need to start building more galleys as there are a lot of islands that the AI can go to, near the end of the game it may be tough to find all their settlers in galleys.
All,
ROP; sorry, but I didnt know that a declaring would make it impossible to get a ROP. I though one had to break an ROP for that. We lots of troops around paris when it flipped, and the borders expanded. That meant I still had quite a few troops inside their borders at the end of the turn.
Arabia: I guess we shouldve had troops ready to retake all the cities when they where supposed to talk to us after 4-5 turns. Thing is, when not familiar with the concept of what is to be done, in such a complex setting, I just try to follow instructions.
The criticisms are ok, I deserve that, thats what I learn from.
Its just that I cant keep up with the game here. So, as for continuing to play, I must say that I have felt playing this more a burden than fun. That has nothing to do with you and is of course not your fault. The only link I see between the criticisms I got and my decision not to play anymore is that I was actually not enjoying myself when I played last night. The fact that I felt it a burden could have contributed to my wrongdoings. This has actually made me dislike CIV a little bit too.
So, this is also based on the fact that I cannot find time in RL to plug in the amount of time needed to follow this game in the tempo that is expected from you guys. Last night when playing the last 5 turns I spend like 4 hours preparing and doing that. (Looking at it that way, I defo shouldve done better..hehe.)
And then, after spending hours doing things that are supposed to be fun, feeling beat, feeling it was a burden, starting to dislike civ - that isnt too cool.
I am really sorry that I let you guys down in the game, and also jumping ship here, leaving the team. But I got to do this for fun, and if it isnt fun anymore, then I must spend my sparetime otherwise.
You have been great to me and I have learnt a lot - thanks.
JJ
ROP; sorry, but I didnt know that a declaring would make it impossible to get a ROP. I though one had to break an ROP for that. We lots of troops around paris when it flipped, and the borders expanded. That meant I still had quite a few troops inside their borders at the end of the turn.
Arabia: I guess we shouldve had troops ready to retake all the cities when they where supposed to talk to us after 4-5 turns. Thing is, when not familiar with the concept of what is to be done, in such a complex setting, I just try to follow instructions.
The criticisms are ok, I deserve that, thats what I learn from.
Its just that I cant keep up with the game here. So, as for continuing to play, I must say that I have felt playing this more a burden than fun. That has nothing to do with you and is of course not your fault. The only link I see between the criticisms I got and my decision not to play anymore is that I was actually not enjoying myself when I played last night. The fact that I felt it a burden could have contributed to my wrongdoings. This has actually made me dislike CIV a little bit too.
So, this is also based on the fact that I cannot find time in RL to plug in the amount of time needed to follow this game in the tempo that is expected from you guys. Last night when playing the last 5 turns I spend like 4 hours preparing and doing that. (Looking at it that way, I defo shouldve done better..hehe.)
And then, after spending hours doing things that are supposed to be fun, feeling beat, feeling it was a burden, starting to dislike civ - that isnt too cool.
I am really sorry that I let you guys down in the game, and also jumping ship here, leaving the team. But I got to do this for fun, and if it isnt fun anymore, then I must spend my sparetime otherwise.
You have been great to me and I have learnt a lot - thanks.
JJ
Wotan said:I can't remember the last time I gave you any flak?You play a solid game these days, Dman!
Yeah, other than setting up Wash and Phily on fire and revolt my last turn set
(not that you mentioned anything, but i doubt it was a good play from me.@JJ: I am really sorry to hear what you've said..... I understand your feelings and I respect your decision, but I feel sorry you are leaving without giving it a fight.
smackster
SGOTM
For me its those complex difficult turns that make it fun, and I agree it does take a long time to play, but you did get it at a really difficult time, maybe you would not get a harder set of turns.tomasjj said:
You should rethink leaving, as you over time you'll find it easier. For now you can just play 5 turns each time, or just assign an amount of time to play and then play until the time is up and then post. You don't have to do 10 turns.
For now stop either way, and dman should take it.
smackster
smackster
SGOTM
Play 5, 10, or even 15 depending on time.
Just as I guessed. I did know this myself a year ago...tomasjj said:
Minor thing really...tomasjj said:
You probably had the most difficult turn set yet in this game. We are at the point where the "camel's back" is about to break. It is the point in the game where turns are lost or gained in the race towards victory. It is normally after these turns that I lose interest in GOTMs and just rush them to the end wo any real MMing and thought. SGOTMs OTOH have the added aspect of a team to keep it interesting all the way to the finish line.tomasjj said:
Stay on the team, keep up with what happens and see how things look next time you are up. It will probably be your last turnset on this game anyway. We should have it wrapped in 40-50 turns max...
smackster
SGOTM
Yea here it is, we settled SE, researched WC, and MM, then built galleys, found india, built horses and took their cities, then entered the MA. Oh we built a wonder or two.dmanakho said:Would our captain volunteer to write 1st spoiler?
Only joking, yes I'll write it.
smackster
Similar threads
- Sticky
