SGOTM6 - Team Bede

[Bede]

I like Bede's overall strategic plan. The goal here is to be first to get 100K CULTURE, not to whomp the most heads. (I shall be emphasizing this point many times) At emperor level it should not be difficult to clear out the core area (8 to 10 tiles in every direction from the capital) which we must settle intensively and utilize every tile. City placement should ensure the ability to add a second generation of cities once the initial cities have built all culture buildings. Attacking other civs should only be done for state security and to clear out more living room.

Since we will play much of the game in despotism, luxury will come in handy but a two turn worker factory is essential. Workers can be joined to nonproductive cities outside the low corruption core area to rush culture buildings at 20 shields per worker. This is an efficient means of shield transference out of the core area.

I do wonder about the research goal after polytheism. I prefer Literature to be able to build libraries ASAP, the AI is very slow to get that tech.

I have to go with eldar on this one. The most efficient way to get to 100K under these government restrictions almost requires whomping every head.

As for culture buildings we won't need all of them or even close - temple/library/cathedral will do nicely, if we build enough of them. And that "enough" requires nearly constant warfare.

Secondly, the government restrictions do not allow cash rushed buildings so we need a constant stream of new cities with a growing population for the whip. Now that I have written that it occurs to me that the Pyramids and the Temple of Artie would be useful wonders to have, either by building or by capture. The ToA for the immediate temple, the Pyramids for the granary for faster population growth for more forced labor.

City placement for the initial phase should be CxxxC at maximum in the first and second rings, CxxC and Cxc after that, terrain and weather permitting.

 

[Pied Piper]

On ToA: I don't know if we want it, since temples are cheap and I think 1000-year doubling is going to matter more than in a typical 100K game. Not that it would hurt anything, but I don't think it's worth the effort.

Since temples are so cheap lets take advantage of our trait and pass on TOA. Then we can research straight to literature and delay polytheism. Getting the culture doubling will be very important.

 

[eldar]

Agree with Bede - Pyramids will be very, very useful.
However...
Pyramids+ToA will trip our GA, if we build both.

I'd rather encourage a neighbour to build ToA, and capture it, and build the Pyramids ourselves.

Neil.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I'm looking forward to this challenge!!! Despotism throughout the Middle Ages . That's scary. Correct me if I'm wrong but captured wonders do NOT give culture?

As for inital moves, worker N to mine & road BG. settle in place (if you move the settler you'll lose the cow on the other side of the Amazon River. 2nd and 3rd cities should get the game and wheat.

Later in the game, I think that I'll need to be reminded about the domination limit. That would suck if we had the game in hand and lose it because we won it the wrong way.

@Pied Piper -> the upload folder that your picture is in is uploads9
Corrected picture link I think that we want to spread the initial cities out a little more than is portrayed in the picture.

Contiguous Pangea - many continents seperated by 1 tile "rivers" connected by small land bridges?

 

[Tubby Rower]

Pyramids+ToA will trip our GA, if we build both.

If you capture and/or build both it would trip a GA.

 

[eldar]

A GA is triggered in one of two ways:
- Your Civ's UU killing an AI unit.
- Building a Wonder, which either completes the complementing set of traits for your Civ, or if you already own (through having built/captured) Wonders with matching traits.

So, if we build the Pyramids (Agr), and capture ToA (Rel), we won't get the GA until we build our next Wonder.

Now, as we're going to be stuck with a Despotic GA, I'd like it to be as late as we can risk. Which means early wars with Horses, leaving our Gallic Swords - highly effective units well into the Middle Ages - until we have a larger empire.

Neil.

 

[Bede]

The save is here for those who don't know that m-b puts it on the SGOTM scores page:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm6/Bede_SG006_BC4000_01.SAV

I looked at it this morning and the "Amazon River" is an arm of the ocean as the tiles only give 1f.

Also m-b has confirmed that barbs are set to "raging with intense regional barbarian activity". So there's the weather report I was looking for and draw your own conclusions.

@Mab (may I refer to you as Queen Mab, seeing we are going to need some magic?), care to start us off?

 

[Pied Piper]

I think we should max research towards Literature and try trading for HB. We don't need Poly if:

we build the Pyramids (Agr), and capture ToA (Rel), we won't get the GA until we build our next Wonder.

For an early military we have archers and then horses, so we can postpone BW and IW research. It is my habit to build all offensive units in barracks, with cheap barracks most cities should have one, but to save money I leave several cities without, which can build the catapults, trebs, and artillery.


BTW, is it 20 turns for the first turn set of the game?

I agree with TR that our initial expansion should be Northward to exploit the river system and its commerce benefits.

 

[Bede]

If you look at the mini-map you will note that we start in south-easternmost corner and if you fog-gaze at the south you will note tundra.

In Conquests the Celts do not get cheap barracks.

So initial expansion should be north by northwest, exploiting the riverine fields for the food bonus (+1 in the city center).

For archers we will need to research or buy Warrior Code and for horsemen, HBR.

Every first ring city should have a barracks as its very first build so that we can produce veteran archers when the time comes.

When it comes to really early culture I would vote against. More than anything we need land, cities and population and for that we need military and settlers more than anything.

I just got badly burned in a Deity 100K game by building early culture instead of military for conquest and settlers for land grabbing.

In the Emperor game with the Celts that eldar and I just finished we started our culture push late (750AD) and finshed with 100K and Domination almost exactly 1000 years later. We started the push with 70+ towns having conquered our continent and ended with 111, mostly on our home continent. Culture growth was less than 300cpt at the beginning of the push but rose to 860 by the end game. Total culture at the start of the culture mongering was 9000. it took 153 turns to increase the city count by 40 and the total culture by over 90000.

The crux of all this analysis is that if we can have 100 towns by 750AD we should be able to wrap this one in fine style. And the only way to do that is going to be with a serious focus on military.

 

[mabellino]

Hey guys
Apologies for the late showing and missing out on all the discussion. The facists that I work for have banned access to the CF forums due to bad language??? I guess the OT has influenced the whole site!

Anyway... I played a quick test game with the same settings last night and was able to expand nice and fast. That's rare for me btw

I don't mind going first but think that honour might be better off going to someone with more experience, I'm a little rusty to be honest and don't want the plans to be scuppered right from the off!

I agree with the plan to settle in place, where do you guys reckon the 2nd city should be? I'm leaning towards NE of the wheat but we'll need to see how productive that site is. No point having loads of food and no shields!

 

[Bede]

Since it has to be close to 10:00 PM in the UK I can appreciate your relunctance to start.

eldar is also the UK, Minute Man is in New Mexico and the Piper in Detroit, and TR in VA, so why not set the roster this way:

Bede - opens the ball
Minute Man - on deck
Mab
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper
eldar

That should get us started

I like to keep a fairly strict 24 to post a got it, 24 for discussion if necessary, then 24 to play and post. Skips automatically honored when requested. And unrequested skips can be picked up by the next in line by posting a got it.

Twenty turns for the starter, then 10 each after that.

Back with a report in a couple of hours.

 

[mabellino]

That sounds good to me! I'll be back online at 6pm GMT all being well. Good luck!

 

[Bede]

The Save


Settle on the spot and set the worker to mining the grassland to the west. Set Research to Alphabet at minimum and train a warrior. Train five more for exploration duty and an escort for the settler as they are barbarians in them thar hills.


Warriors start boxing the compass and in 3150BC meet a Mongol conscript. Temujin possesses Warrior Code and 35g (he started with Pottery and Warrior Code) so he has been busy busting barbarian hovels and hasn't made any friends yet.

I pass on buying Warrior Code as it will only get cheaper.
In 3100 the Mongols know Bronze Working.

In 300 the first settler leaves Entremont to build a town on the spot just west (1SW of the silks).

Entremont is building a granary while it grows, could be switched to barracks.

Worker is back at home, mine and road the bonus grasslands just south then proceed to connnecting the next town.

Here is a list of our opponents:

And now a dotmap:

Moving dot 2 1NW will get two boinus grass on founding.

Met the Mongols to the west. From what I have seen we have the richest possible start in this corner.

Towns 1 and 2 should start barracks, 3 and 4 temples after workers.

Roster check:
Minute Man - up
Mab - rarin' to go
Tubby Rower
Pied Piper
eldar
Bede

 

[Minute Man]

OK, got it. Follow Bede's plan and try not too screw things up too badly. Looks good to me.

What's the plan on tech research? If the opportunity arises to trade for alpha and go down the writing/philo branch arises, should I do that? Or are we more interested in trading for military techs (WC, Wheel) right now?

 

[Bede]

Research is minimum at Alphabet which we should be able to use to acquire miltary techs at just about the time we will be able to use them, i.e barracks are built and ready to train archers.

Keep pushing the warrior/explorers and don't waste them on barbarians or goody huts. The contacts we make will be worth more than anything we can get from huts.

The philosophy gambit will get us Literature if it is successful so by all means pursue it.

We porbably won't be able to buy alphabet for a reasonable price, though if it comes up, buy it if we have somebody to trade it off to.

 

[eldar]

Hey, we're in the lead at 3000BC (with two teams still to submit their 3000BC saves)! My guess is that 6 warriors and a settler, makes for a (relatively!) good score

 

[Pied Piper]

If the settler builds a city on the tile NW of site #1 it looks like we can pick up 25 gold and disperse the barbs in the mountains without attacking. Population growth won't be delayed, in fact it can be increased if the worker cuts down the forest and starts irrigating. Also there will then be room for another city on the river between sites #1 and #4.

For us new to SGotM, what is the actual page with the start file, and the one with the current scores?

 

[Tubby Rower]

If the settler builds a city on the tile NW of site #1 it looks like we can pick up 25 gold and disperse the barbs in the mountains without attacking.

but you'll lose the BG in the short run growth right now is more important correct?

 

[eldar]

The advantage of Site #1 is that defensive troops can go back an forth from Entremont, and fortify, in 1 turn, without crossing the river. There's also the possibility that a Barb from the camp might whack our warrior before settling - a major setback.

 

[Pied Piper]

I have not seen that happen in an Emperor level game, especially on a hill tile. It would be a major setback if it happened, though the other warrior could reduce the probability to zero if it is a concern. Two forest chops equals quite a few turns of BG benefit, the BG can be incorporated in the next city on the river. Just a suggestion is all. I try to minimize barbarian threats when I can. Seemed like the way to go with the camp on the mountain. Wonder if he changed the massive uprising key?