SGOTM7 - Team tao
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Sabre
Cheftain
I third the Chivalry now vote. Anything to speed our victory, even if by a turn or two.
edit - Tone beat me, so I guess I fourth the vote.
edit - Tone beat me, so I guess I fourth the vote.
A couple of thoughts to convince myself:
1. If we opt to go straight to Chivalry and it turns up in the GL the turn before we research it, how much of a mistake would that be?
2. The real key behind our decision is how long til domination?
3. If we go straight to Chivalry would we need any other techs?
4. And what if Engineering shows up within 7 turns?
So, for 1. The only difference I see would be the ability throughout the rest of the game to have uninhibited movement, not a huge advantage for us, but it must speed up our campaign somewhat.
For 2. Does anyone have an estimate? If it takes a while, then the GL will still deliver until Education. We should be able to get Engineering, anyway, without any research partly because the civs with Theology will be done, or very weak to research Education.
And 3. It sure seems that we can win with knights. If we shut off research entirely, there aren't that many techs that can hurt our campaign until maybe gunpowder. A chance we should be able to live with. The civs talking to us now have no money - and it seems America and Vikes are broke, too, so even if they got Leo's it wouldn't help them much.
4. Wouldn't our getting Engineering lower the research speed for the AI to get gunpowder? Assume that we are the only ones researching it and it will take 7 turns, Education takes 8, Printing Press, 7 at 100%. According to Renata's analysis Chivalry takes 6 - then going for Chivalry still should be worth it.
I think I've answered any doubts I have and am prepared to make the decision to go for Chivalry unanimous.
1. If we opt to go straight to Chivalry and it turns up in the GL the turn before we research it, how much of a mistake would that be?
2. The real key behind our decision is how long til domination?
3. If we go straight to Chivalry would we need any other techs?
4. And what if Engineering shows up within 7 turns?
So, for 1. The only difference I see would be the ability throughout the rest of the game to have uninhibited movement, not a huge advantage for us, but it must speed up our campaign somewhat.
For 2. Does anyone have an estimate? If it takes a while, then the GL will still deliver until Education. We should be able to get Engineering, anyway, without any research partly because the civs with Theology will be done, or very weak to research Education.
And 3. It sure seems that we can win with knights. If we shut off research entirely, there aren't that many techs that can hurt our campaign until maybe gunpowder. A chance we should be able to live with. The civs talking to us now have no money - and it seems America and Vikes are broke, too, so even if they got Leo's it wouldn't help them much.
4. Wouldn't our getting Engineering lower the research speed for the AI to get gunpowder? Assume that we are the only ones researching it and it will take 7 turns, Education takes 8, Printing Press, 7 at 100%. According to Renata's analysis Chivalry takes 6 - then going for Chivalry still should be worth it.
I think I've answered any doubts I have and am prepared to make the decision to go for Chivalry unanimous.
Agreed! Go get us a GL Furiey!tao said:
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
Well I was about to start playing when Renata posted, so decided to get something to eat first and have another look at the Chivalry situation afterwards before I started playing. I return and everything has changed! Good job I didn't rush ahead! The difference again here is we are in a race and Knights allow us to change up a gear, so unless of course Chivalry shows up next turn I'll junk our Engineering research and focus on building those Horses.
Do I keep researching though, or stop, at least while the GL is active.
Do I keep researching though, or stop, at least while the GL is active.
You mean after Chivalry? I'd say stop -- we'll need cash for several turns to complete the upgrades. After that possibly turn it back on again for Engineering, but it's too far from now to know what will be best.
Renata
Renata
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
We it's Chivalry here we come, unfortunately in 6 turns at 100% not 5 
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
On a better note, Great Leader Orhan has just appeared in the attack on Bapedi.
Any preference for Sun Tzu location? I suppose anywhere in our core would be best then we could sell the Barracks there and save a bit of gold
Any preference for Sun Tzu location? I suppose anywhere in our core would be best then we could sell the Barracks there and save a bit of gold
Excuse me, this requires the "go advanced" screen ...
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
That should do it.
As for where to build it -- I guess the home continent would be ok. It'll save us about 7gpt (not much, admittedly) and give us barracks in all our outlying towns, which may prove useful for rushing military units toward the end of the game. But then again we probably won't have money to spare anyway after all the upgrading and settler-rushing and such.
What are we planning to do if we get a second leader? I can't imagine needing an army -- the AIs are too weak mostly for it to pay off very much on invasion defense (and we'd have to land it almost empty anyway), and offensive armies aren't very useful in vanilla civ. Rush a palace in India? If so, maybe we should consider building Sun Tzu's there?
Third option: save it for the Arabia invasion (how soon can you manage that, do you think?) and rush Sun Tzu's in the first town we build there so we have quick healing all the way down the island.
Renata
That should do it.
As for where to build it -- I guess the home continent would be ok. It'll save us about 7gpt (not much, admittedly) and give us barracks in all our outlying towns, which may prove useful for rushing military units toward the end of the game. But then again we probably won't have money to spare anyway after all the upgrading and settler-rushing and such.
What are we planning to do if we get a second leader? I can't imagine needing an army -- the AIs are too weak mostly for it to pay off very much on invasion defense (and we'd have to land it almost empty anyway), and offensive armies aren't very useful in vanilla civ. Rush a palace in India? If so, maybe we should consider building Sun Tzu's there?
Third option: save it for the Arabia invasion (how soon can you manage that, do you think?) and rush Sun Tzu's in the first town we build there so we have quick healing all the way down the island.
Renata
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
I'm only on turn 3 and so far have a couple of Axemen and about half a dozen Horses. Chivalry is due in 4 by which time there should be 9 or 10 more Horses, upgrading as many as I can would give load up on turn 8 if all goes well and there's enough gold for upgrades.
I don't think we want to save the leader for Arabia - better to get our Golden Age going. Building Sun Tzu in India if we move our Palace with the next one would be useful, however it may be a while before we get to do that, meanwhile our current core cities are going to become far more productive, and more of them could use the Barracks now.
I'm only going to press the button one more time tonight, so I won't have got Orhan to the point of loading into a Galley. I'll finish tomorrow so we have a bit of time to discuss.
edit: As I've just noticed that's it's gone 2AM here, on second thoughts I'm going to stop for the night now rather than mess it all up.
I don't think we want to save the leader for Arabia - better to get our Golden Age going. Building Sun Tzu in India if we move our Palace with the next one would be useful, however it may be a while before we get to do that, meanwhile our current core cities are going to become far more productive, and more of them could use the Barracks now.
I'm only going to press the button one more time tonight, so I won't have got Orhan to the point of loading into a Galley. I'll finish tomorrow so we have a bit of time to discuss.
edit: As I've just noticed that's it's gone 2AM here, on second thoughts I'm going to stop for the night now rather than mess it all up.
Cheers to the queen 
on the excellent news. Do we need Sun Tzu's in our homeland? Our Golden Age will make 7gpt look like peanuts. And we may build 2 barracks on the Zulu continent. And a library to expand territory to capture some coastal tiles (together 4gpt).
Thus IMHO it is just as fine to build Sun Tzu's on the Zulu continent giving our troops faster healing and faster attack on Arabs and Persia.
on the excellent news. Do we need Sun Tzu's in our homeland? Our Golden Age will make 7gpt look like peanuts. And we may build 2 barracks on the Zulu continent. And a library to expand territory to capture some coastal tiles (together 4gpt). Thus IMHO it is just as fine to build Sun Tzu's on the Zulu continent giving our troops faster healing and faster attack on Arabs and Persia.
What happened to my automatic e-mail notification of the previous posts? Still, I know now. Excellent news!
I'm happy with Sun Tzu on any island. The major factors will be our GA speeding up research to Chiv and then our core pumping out knights (plus more upgrades more quickly of course). The steamroller is coming I feel.
I'm happy with Sun Tzu on any island. The major factors will be our GA speeding up research to Chiv and then our core pumping out knights (plus more upgrades more quickly of course). The steamroller is coming I feel.
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
I still prefer our home continent for Sun Tzu. The Zulu continent is just a case of finishing it off. Bapedi will fall next turn, the troops then will heal and move to Ulundi. I wasn't intending to build any more Barracks, just the one that was rushed in Konya. With 1 city to go faster healing won't speed things up much and the positioning we have available at the moment only building in Zimbabwe (still in resistance) will help culturally. Bapedi will be available next turn, but do we really want to build it somewhere with such a high fliprisk? As I'm not taking new troops there and we will have to leave some troops there to mop up invasions there will not be that many that become available for Arabia/Persia so it won't help in that manner either. Our Arab/Persia troops are gathering at home to be upgraded before they leave. The only way the faster healing bit will help the Arab/Persia war will be to build it in Arabia, and that means waiting several turns and delaying our golden age and the chance of another leader in the meantime. We want to use our Golden Age for Knights at max speed I would guess and there are several cities on our home continent that are currently a bit slow producing that should speed up nicely - the Beach towns, Bursa, Orhan get can to our home continent next turn, but would take a bit longer to get to the Indian continent. India would be interesting, but longer term as the benefits would require a Palace move as well - we're likely to have only 2 cities that benefit from the Barracks, one of which has one already.
Sabre
Cheftain
Great news! I think placing Sun Tzu's on the home continent is fine. It's my experience that if I do something that needs a leader soon, it's certain that leader will take forever to appear. Ah, knights topped with a golden age. The other civs won't know what hit them!
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