SGOTM7 - Team tao

[Renata]

And since we're not militaristic, promotions against barbs aren't very likely. One in four chance, IIRC. Which is not to say we shouldn't hit barbs with any regular unit we happen to have handy whenever the odds are in our favor.

Renata

 

[Keath]

And since we're not militaristic, promotions against barbs aren't very likely. One in four chance, IIRC. Which is not to say we shouldn't hit barbs with any regular unit we happen to have handy whenever the odds are in our favor

If you pop a GH and get three barbs, they attack and after multiple wins you get a promotion anyway, right? I know that the wins are more difficult, though, so maybe it's better to wait til they come to you.

I could barely resist popping those huts. You'se pays yer money and you'se takes yer chances.

 

[tao]

Recent post elsewhere in CFC:

Odds of promotion are based on whether the civ has the militaristic trait or not and whether the victory was against barbarians or not. Basically, chances of promotion are halved for victories over Barbarians and doubled for Militaristic civs.

non-militaristic civ vs. non-barbarians:
conscript to regular: 1 in 2
regular to veteran: 1 in 4
veteran to elite: 1 in 8

non-militaristic civ vs. barbarians:
conscript to regular: 1 in 4
regular to veteran: 1 in 8
veteran to elite: 1 in 16

militaristic civ vs. non-barbarians:
conscript to regular: 1 in 1
regular to veteran: 1 in 2
veteran to elite: 1 in 4

militaristic civ vs. barbarians:
conscript to regular: 1 in 2
regular to veteran: 1 in 4
veteran to elite: 1 in 8

If a victorious unit fails to get promoted, it will always be promoted upon surviving any other battle in the same turn . This gives an obvious advantage to defenders as well as an incentive to use the same offensive units for additional battles whenever possible.

 

[tao]

Thanks for swapping, Keath. I'll take a look tonight.

Was that a "got it"?

 

[Tone]

Yes!

Got it and looking now. I have a free day-the first decent stretch of civ time in a long while and my plan for the day is this followed by another SG that I'm in and then GOTM. Heaven!

 

[Tone]

@ tao: agreed with all your observations/suggestions after Keath's turn set but I don't understand this one:

Uskudar should work flood plains instead of plains, switch temporarely to archer for coinciding worker build with pop growth, and then start a granary.

If I am reading this correctly, we are building a worker followed by a granary but delaying the worker build by a turn. I would have thought that it would be better to build the worker on the turn before pop growth and then the first turn of the granary build gets the extra shield upon growth back to size three. Please advise.

BTW we don't need to mm Sogut for the worker build as it will get the tenth sheild with pop growth-right? New worker to develop river plains and road to the East for the current settler's town.

I'm using Furiey's dot map from post 83-is that OK? I thought that our next settler after the worker/warrior could go to the cows.

Agreed on the rax build for Izmit after the current archer build is completed. Archers to hit barb camp in the south?

Worker action around Uskadar: irrigate a fp and then mine a hill or just go for the hills and not be concerned about maintaining pop growth?

If we join the hill worker to our prebuild town we will need to up lux further. Should we get another worker out of Sogut after the next work/warr build to road the river forests? The lux is not a problem now but we may want to use that cash when we are researching lit @max.

I'll pause for comments.

 

[tao]

If I am reading this correctly, we are building a worker followed by a granary but delaying the worker build by a turn. I would have thought that it would be better to build the worker on the turn before pop growth and then the first turn of the granary build gets the extra shield upon growth back to size three. Please advise.

We need many turns for the granary after the worker. And by coinciding worker production with pop growth, we avoid loosing a citizen. Even if this delays the worker by 1 turn, it is "productive".

Archers to hit barb camp in the south?

We will meet barb horsemen soon and then archers need protection. This is why I also suggest to move the "idle" warrior as second escort to the Uskudar worker.

Worker action around Uskadar: irrigate a fp and then mine a hill or just go for the hills and not be concerned about maintaining pop growth?

We need shields, thus mine the plains first.

If we join the hill worker to our prebuild town we will need to up lux further. Should we get another worker out of Sogut after the next work/warr build to road the river forests? The lux is not a problem now but we may want to use that cash when we are researching lit @max.

I would build another warrior/worker. And we will soon clear the jungle with the spices giving us another lux.

 

[Tone]

We need many turns for the granary after the worker. And by coinciding worker production with pop growth, we avoid loosing a citizen. Even if this delays the worker by 1 turn, it is "productive".

I don't see what you are getting at. What do we lose if we go down to size two? We maintain our +5 food and so we will get up to size three on the first turn. These sheilds will be lost if we delay the worker so we actually lose production if we do this.

I would build another warrior/worker. And we will soon clear the jungle with the spices giving us another lux.

I was going to road the spices first to get them on line-clearing the tile will take longer-especially as we are merging workers to our lib town. Roading the forests might enable us to have our lib town at size 6 without increasing the lux slider (once the spices are connected of course).

 

[tao]

I don't see what you are getting at. What do we lose if we go down to size two? We maintain our +5 food and so we will get up to size three on the first turn. These sheilds will be lost if we delay the worker so we actually lose production if we do this.

I see things different: we are now pop 3, and by "wasting" one shield, we will stay at pop 3 after worker. Then we grow to pop 4. Your plan drops us back to pop 2, then we grow to pop 3. But in my plan, the not-lost citizen will easily get us back the lost shield.

I was going to road the spices first to get them on line-clearing the tile will take longer-especially as we are merging workers to our lib town.

I would NOT road jungle we want to clear in any case. Lost turns. We can afford higher lux. Send 2 workers.

We need more warrior/worker combos from Sogut.

 

[Tone]

I see things different: we are now pop 3, and by "wasting" one shield, we will stay at pop 3 after worker. Then we grow to pop 4. Your plan drops us back to pop 2, then we grow to pop 3. But in my plan, the not-lost citizen will easily get us back the lost shield.

No. We do not grow any faster by delaying when the worker is built. We grow at +5 food whether the worker is built a turn earlier or not. We will reach size four at the same time!!!!! Think about this again, tao or read the following:

My way
turn 1 +5 food, +1 shield
turn 2 +5 food, +1 shield
turn 3 +5 food, +1 shield-build worker-drop to size 2
turn 4 +5 food back to size 3-2 shields in the bin towards a granary build-no food in the bin.

Your way
turn 1 +5 food, +1 shield
turn 2 +5 food, +1 shield
turn 3 +5 food, +1 shield-stall worker.
turn 4 +5 food, +1 shield-build worker-maintain size 3-0 shields in the bin towards a granary build-no food in the bin.

My way gives us two shields-your way gives us an extra commerce on turn 3 but you will not regain the production as we have the same population , same empty food bin and same rate of growth.

It only pays to stall worker builds if the worker build will slow down population growth. This is not the case so we DO NOT stall the worker build.

I also disagree on the issue of roading the lux vs clearing first. We can afford the lux slider now but we want to research Lit @ max after we get Writing. (don't we?) If we want fast research, we want to minimise our use of the lux slider and hence although it takes more worker turns, we need the lux on line within 11 turns to improve our research capacity when we go for Lit. Personally I think the few extra worker turns 'wasted' is worth doing to get faster research.

 

[Tone]

No other comments so I will go with our leader on clearing the lux tile and then roading. Will do 2 warrior/worker combos and then buiuld a settler.

 

[Tone]

0-1750
No contact with Arabia yet-even though our borders touch. Move Lib city citizen onto forest, change Sogut build to worker and mm Uskudar as suggested by tao. Also cover archer/worker with war from wfp.

IBT
Horses come from both barb camps, the one from the south covers the wfp messing up our growth in Uskudar (all that discussion!!!)
Sogut: worker>warr. Izmit: archer>rax. (Indians are building the Pyramids)

1-1725
Reduce lux to 10%. Archer attacks horse, losing 1hp, Uskudar worker mines, Aydin worker roads, Izmit worker roads, new archer moves to Iznik_Lib to meet the threat of the other barb, Insence worker joins Iznik_Lib and takes mined bg from Aydin (as suggested by tao), Izmit loses mined bg to Sogut, build Antalya (rax), worker from Sogut will be under threat from the barb horse if he moves towards the new town so I move him SW to develop plains and will wait for the archer to clear the barb camp.

IBT
Barb attacks war in new town, and we only just win-a new barb horse takes his place on the mountain 2S of Antalya.
Sogut: warr>work.
(Zulus now have Writing, both 'known' rivals now have 5 towns.)

2-1700
Our warrior in Antalya has fully healed (?!!) New warr moves from Sogut>Iznik_Lib to enable one of the warriors there to move E with the archer towards the barb horse & camp. Wounded archer fortifies, 2nd worker by Izmit irrigates roaded plains. mm to give mined bg to Izmit.

IBT
Barb horse attacks Antalya and warr defends successfully again.
Sogut: worker>warr. Uskadar: worker>granary.
(India now has Writing)

3-1675
mm towns to give Sogut the mined bg and Uskadar works the (soon to be mined) plains tile as pop growth was stalled by the barb incursion. Archer and vet warr head towards barb camp in the south and warr from Uskadar covers the worker. New worker and Aydin worker move to the spices, archer/warr combo move E towards barb camp. Izmit worker moves to river plains 2SE of Sogut and Sogut worker moves to tile 3SE.

IBT
Sogut: warr>settler. (Is it against SGOTM rules to now scroll through and give the mined bg to Izmit? I assume it is and so I don't do this but I cannot actually find the rule-sorry if this is wrong.)
We still haven't got contact with the Arabs-I find this very strange. I assume that we want to avoid this for now.

4-1650
mm to give Izmit the mined bg. Archer in east attacks barb camp and wins, taking 25g. archer in the south-west does the same and both archers are covered by the warriors. worker roads the mined plains by Uskudar and the warrior moves back to the town. Izmit worker moves to the plains tile NW of the town. Sogut warr heads SW towards Izmit and warr there covers the worker. River plains workers road ans jungle workers start to clear the spices tile.

IBT
Indians request an audience but we decline to speak.

5-1625
Up lux to 20%. warr/archer pair in the east move W onto the mountain and the other pair move north. Reg warr moves into Aydin and vet fortifies to cover the worker, who starts to road the tile.

IBT
Now it's the Zulu's turn to request an audience but we won't speak to them either.

6-1600
Archer moves from mountain towards Iznik_Lib but warr will remain there to discourage barbs. other warr/archer pair head north. worker moves to bg by Antalya and the other irrigates the river plains.

IBT
Barb warr approaches from the West. Indians have built Lahore that will overlap with northern insence-could be culture problems here.
Sogut: settler>warr.

7-1575
Reduce lux back to 10% and mm capital to get mined bg as usual. Archer into Iznik_Lib, archer vs barb on mountain is a little dodgy so I move the archer/warr both N. Vet warr and Izmit worker head NW towards the cows. Uskudar worker irr fp and Antalya worker mines bg. Settler moves SW along the road and the warr from Izmit moves W onto mountain to halt the barb progress in that area.

IBT
barb horse attacks our warr/archer combo and kills our vet barb warr then attacks the archer but the archer fends off the attack.
Sogut: warr>settler.

8-1550
Archer from Iznik_Lib to Izmit. Archer attacks wounded barb horse and defeats it, landing next to the barb camp. Mountain warr heads West towards the archer and vet warr moves West to get the benefit of the river if another barb is spawned before we KO the camp. worker in this area roads and settler moves onto this tile. River plains worker moves over the river to join Iznik_Lib next turn. New warr moves 3SW towards Izmit. mm to give bg back to Izmit.

9-1525
Up lux to 20%. wounded archer fortifies. regwar and settler move to tile where the vet war is (fortifies). archer waits in Izmit and reg warr from Sogut waits one tile away .fp worker roads. worker joins Iznik_Lib but only works a plains tile as working a forest tile would not gain any more shields due to corruption and would require the lux slider to go to 30%. Aydin cit moved to spices tile as it will be cleared when the space bar is pressed.

IBT
barb camp gets a horse.

10-1500
archer kills barb warrior, losing 1 hp. reg warr fortifies by camp and vet escorts the settler N. worker joins the reg warr towards the cows. Antalya worker roads mined bg. Workers connect spices and lux reduced to 10%. New cit in Uskudar works fp as the additional shield from the hills is lost.

NB Our spices town is coming under a fair degree of cultural pressure. It my be wise to move another warrior there soon.
I was thinking of the Eastern site for our next town before our enemies grab it-they may get MM soon.
Perhaps we should investigate the far south too?

save

edit: is it worth making contact with Arabia next turn when we get Writing or do we assume that they have it by now?

 

[Renata]

Regarding cities, I want the cows as a priority -- that's the best territory we have left.

(Is it against SGOTM rules to now scroll through and give the mined bg to Izmit? I assume it is and so I don't do this but I cannot actually find the rule-sorry if this is wrong.)

It's against GOTM rules to get double use out of any tile or citizen on the same turn. Thanks for not doing it.

I have it, but I won't be able to play for a couple of days. We may see boats by the end of my turns ... eep!

Renata

 

[Tone]

Regarding cities, I want the cows as a priority -- that's the best territory we have left.

The settler is almost there. 1 turn left to get into position as it is currently with the vet warrior on the plains cows. Not wishing to tempt fate but we have them as long as the barb camp doesn't spawn another horse before we overrun it.

It's against GOTM rules to get double use out of any tile or citizen on the same turn. Thanks for not doing it.

Now I should have known this Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Renata]

Oh, I see it now. My bad.

Renata

 

[tao]

@Tone. Nice progress you made.

@Renata: Do we want to swap? I will be able to play today or tomorrow the latest.


PS: I assume the western settler goes NW to get both cows and give us a ship passage. Correct?

PPS: A look at the score graph shows team Bede to be in deep deep trouble and team Ivan to be in trouble. We need literature and the GLib asap.

 

[Tone]

I assume the western settler goes NW to get both cows and give us a ship passage. Correct?

Yes. I was following Furiey's dot map from post 83. Do we need to consider another site for the ground north of here that was uncharted before the dm was produced?

A look at the score graph shows team Bede to be in deep deep trouble and team Ivan to be in trouble. We need literature and the GLib asap.

At least we have the rax in Izmit next turn and Antalya will get a shield boost when it grows next turn so it won't take long to get a second one either. Izmit is producing 5 shields/turn (if we use the forest when Sogut gets the bg once every four turns) so we can a few decent units up and running. These will hopefully be enough to counter any early landings from our rivals unless we get a few more AI civs appearing in boats before we get the GLib.

You were certainly correct about the need to add workers to Iznik_Lib. As I mentioned in my post, there was no benefit from working both forest tiles (currently getting 10/12 sheilds as opposed to 10/13 if working the additional forest) but I wonder if the corruption may increase as we add more cities. If this is the case we may need to road one of the forests to ensure that we still only need 10% lux if it becomes a choice between 9/12 or 10/13. I'm also a little concerned that the Pyramids may be built before we get Literature so full steam ahead!

Looking at the score graphs I want to know what Wacken's team are doing!

 

[Renata]

@ Tao -- yes, please, a switch would be great.

I'd switch Sogut to military at the first sign of boats or mapmaking. (If it's the two civs we've contacted, the first actual boats we see will probably have military. If it's someone else, the first boats should have settler pairs at worst.) Izmit and Antalya, of course, need to be building military immediately if not sooner. We're going to have to make due with spears and archers until the GL is built. Also remember to have a bait city. Antalya looks to be best so far -- if everywhere else gets a spear and Antalya only warrior(s), we might have a good shot at luring AIs there where we can get to them fairly easily from our highest production cities.

I'd seriously consider abandoning the granary build in Uskudar until there's more production there. It's just too slow.

Two tiles south of the two-cow spot is another good city site, Tao. It's also on the dotmap.

@ Tone -- the Pyramids probably will be built before we have lit. We can always switch back to the Palace. Is it up to 400 shields yet? 10/13 uncorrupted shields is pretty good for the GL city, slightly better than I thought it would be. Corruption won't increase with additional cities; they're all further away.

Renata

 

[Tone]

I'd seriously consider abandoning the granary build in Uskudar until there's more production there. It's just too slow.

I wondered about this. Maybe it could just be a worker pump for now

the Pyramids probably will be built before we have lit. We can always switch back to the Palace. Is it up to 400 shields yet?

Sorry-don't know. I've got my C3C disk in at the moment so I cannot look.

10/13 uncorrupted shields is pretty good for the GL city, slightly better than I thought it would be. Corruption won't increase with additional cities; they're all further away.

Won't they affect the OCN or have we not reached that limit? Perhaps I do not fully understand corruption and waste and so I need to look at Alexman's article again. Any assistance much appreciated in helping me to master the finer points of this game

 

[Renata]

Won't they affect the OCN or have we not reached that limit? Perhaps I do not fully understand corruption and waste and so I need to look at Alexman's article again. Any assistance much appreciated in helping me to master the finer points of this game

Except in communism, extra cities only affect corruption in cities further from the palace/FP than they are. I'm sorry I can't explain it any better. Need caffeine.

Renata