Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
Izmit =Timzi? I kept getting them backwards after all!
We must remember that we can't rush a Wonder with a leader before 1000BC.
We must remember that we can't rush a Wonder with a leader before 1000BC.
SGOTM7 - Team tao
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Sabre
Cheftain
I agree with Tao that our first leader should build an army unless some Wonder available at the time appears necessary. I don't think we'll be doing much fighting until after 1000bc and getting a leader before then would have to include some very good luck. Armies are going to be very helpful in our invasions and the more we have, the better our offensive will be. Thus Heroic Epic would rank up with, and maybe eclipse, Leo's as a wanted Wonder. Of course, I've found that the more you want a leader, the less likely you are to get one so this may be a moot point. 
I'm sorry to mess you guys around. I got home from work absolutely exhausted and went straight to bed! I now haven't got the time to play today or tomorrow. Please skip me or swap the roster for this cycle if possible (or wait for me to play on Thursday).
Last night I could get no internet access. I have it and will play this afternoon.tao said:
@Ainwood The first thing I would like to say to you and the other CivFanatics staff is thank you. Thank you for the time and the energy you put into making this site the best thing that has happened for the Civ playing community. I mean no animosity with my thoughts about using computer utilities. Still, I can think of many reasons and examples for suggesting that utilities are unfair in competition play.
I can also think of many reasons for using utilities especially if it speeds up game play. But do they really speed up game play? It takes extra time to do a thorough analysis by continually exiting the game and loading the save. It means everyone will have less errors and better scores. It raises the bar with everyone expecting to have an error free game. It also reduces the realism of Civ3. Ill keep my comments to the concept of realism.
Civ3 is a very realistic simulation of empire building. Your unique empire is represented by the game file. So how is it realistic to be governing your empire(game file) in 4000 bc with a desktop computer? Shouldnt players at least have to wait until they discover computer technology to use computer utilities?
Analysis has led to a very thorough understanding of how the game mechanics work complete with mathematical formulae. Rather than giving players more tools to improve their scores we should do something to make Civ3 a little tougher.
So let me propose a new category of player the Ironman category where players use no props, no combat calculators, no utilities and no printed data, just a piece of paper and a pencil. The Ironman might not reach the high scores of players using utilities but he/she might have more fun and might even finish the game in less time.
And the game will definitely be a more realistic simulation of empire building complete with a few player errors that simulate drunken mayors that let cities flame, lack lustre generals that lose battles they might have won and incompetent advisors that give poor advice just like real empire building just like RL.
A few thoughts before I play:
1. Rename Iznik => Iznik_FP.
2. Road desert(?) or better to move to forest(E of Izmet or NE of Izmet) for chop? Which raises the question of whether we want to build a barracks there or wait for a harbour build
meanwhile building regular troops - reg archers to barb chase?
3. Iznik_FP worker to mine bg or s to road goats first?
4. Uskudar worker in 5 s to irr/rd wheat.
5. Sogut => worker, warrior, settler => to hill next to spices 3 se of Iznik_FP.
6. Kill redlined barb.
7. Writing at minimum.
9. Any special mm tricks for Sogut?
Any other ideas?
1. Rename Iznik => Iznik_FP.
2. Road desert(?) or better to move to forest(E of Izmet or NE of Izmet) for chop? Which raises the question of whether we want to build a barracks there or wait for a harbour build
meanwhile building regular troops - reg archers to barb chase?3. Iznik_FP worker to mine bg or s to road goats first?
4. Uskudar worker in 5 s to irr/rd wheat.
5. Sogut => worker, warrior, settler => to hill next to spices 3 se of Iznik_FP.
6. Kill redlined barb.
7. Writing at minimum.
9. Any special mm tricks for Sogut?
Any other ideas?
1. Iznik => Iznik_Lib?Keath said:A few thoughts before I play:
1. Rename Iznik => Iznik_FP.
2. Road desert(?) or better to move to forest(E of Izmet or NE of Izmet) for chop? Which raises the question of whether we want to build a barracks there or wait for a harbour build
3. Iznik_FP worker to mine bg or s to road goats first?
4. Uskudar worker in 5 s to irr/rd wheat.
5. Sogut => worker, warrior, settler => to hill next to spices 3 se of Iznik_FP.
6. Kill redlined barb.
7. Writing at minimum.
9. Any special mm tricks for Sogut?
2. road the desert
3. mine bg
4. yes
5. yes
6. no; he is fortified; better to wthdraw and let him attack
7. yes
8. ?
9. just make sure that after the pop growth, it doesn't work the forest to keep the pump running
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
Sogut will keep putting the next citizen on the forest. You will need to check when it grows and move it off to keep that +5fpt
I have an opportunity to use a forest chop to build a second archer or towards a barracks im Izmit. I have a feeling the choice would be barracks but there are barbs about if we want to chase them.
And while I'm at it do goody huts go stale? If so, I would take them but won't if they can wait.
Every time a new city is built the name Izmit is the choice. We are going to learn to despise that name if every time we have to rename Izmit_Lib back to Izmit.
And while I'm at it do goody huts go stale? If so, I would take them but won't if they can wait.
Every time a new city is built the name Izmit is the choice. We are going to learn to despise that name if every time we have to rename Izmit_Lib back to Izmit.
2150 bc (Turn 0): Rename Iznik to Iznik_Lib. Set Sogut to worker in one, Izmit to archer. 6.1.3. Writing in 21.
IBT: Sogut worker => warrior.
2110 bc (Turn 1): Attack redlined barb and win redlining our warrior. Sogut worker s to irrigate roaded plains. Izmit worker roads connecting Iznik_Lib.
IBT: Sogut warrior => settler.
2070 bc (Turn 2): Worker mines grass. Wounded warrior fortifies. Move some others. 7.1.2.
IBT: Nidaros builds Colossus.
2030 bc (Turn 3): Slider 6.1.3 for Sogut growth.
IBT: Indians and Zulu start Pyramids.
1990 bc (Turn 4): Worker chopping forest e of Izmit. Recovered warrior s sees barb camp on coast.
IBT: Sogut Settler => warrior. Uskudar worker =>worker.
1950 bc (Turn 5): Slider 7.1.2. Settler to hill next to spices. Workers improving Iznik_Lib tiles.
IBT: Sogut warrior => settler.
1910 bc (Turn 6): Warrior and settler moves. Worker irrigates wheat. Send warrior to guard.
1870 bc (Turn 7): Worker to incense. Move some warriors. Slider 6.1.3.
IBT: Izmit archer => archer.
1830 bc (Turn 8): Worker joins Izmit_Lib. Build Ayden after renaming Izmit_Lib. Set to barracks next player may prefer warrior. Each time Sogut increases pop, one extra shield is produced so mm Sogut for extra gold and happiness. Izmit mm for archer in 5.
IBT: Sogut settler => warrior.
1790 bc (Turn 9): Settler and warrior move e toward site on coast and see barb galley. This site can use oysters full time. The cow site was also tempting but barb horses appeared next to Uskudar between archer on mountain and our warrior/worker pair on wheat.
IBT: Barb horse attacks fortified warrior in Uskudar and loses taking one hp from our warrior. Sogut warrior => settler. Zimbabwe builds Oracle.
1750 bc (Turn 10): Do some mm and move a worker to plains. Leave a fortified warrior on wheat. Settler and escort to build site on coast. Slider 7.1.2.
Treasury: 212 gold, +16 gpt. Writing in 11 turns.
Post-turn: Note that Sogut produces an extra shield between pop 5 and pop 6 so mm allows Izmit to use mined bg for a turn. Because Izmit needs an extra shield to produce archer next turn I've left Sogut producing only 10 shields this turn. Next turn it will catch up but it will have to be mm. Izmit can be changed to barracks as can Ayden be changed. Zulu and India still without writing.
IBT: Sogut worker => warrior.
2110 bc (Turn 1): Attack redlined barb and win redlining our warrior. Sogut worker s to irrigate roaded plains. Izmit worker roads connecting Iznik_Lib.
IBT: Sogut warrior => settler.
2070 bc (Turn 2): Worker mines grass. Wounded warrior fortifies. Move some others. 7.1.2.
IBT: Nidaros builds Colossus.
2030 bc (Turn 3): Slider 6.1.3 for Sogut growth.
IBT: Indians and Zulu start Pyramids.
1990 bc (Turn 4): Worker chopping forest e of Izmit. Recovered warrior s sees barb camp on coast.
IBT: Sogut Settler => warrior. Uskudar worker =>worker.
1950 bc (Turn 5): Slider 7.1.2. Settler to hill next to spices. Workers improving Iznik_Lib tiles.
IBT: Sogut warrior => settler.
1910 bc (Turn 6): Warrior and settler moves. Worker irrigates wheat. Send warrior to guard.
1870 bc (Turn 7): Worker to incense. Move some warriors. Slider 6.1.3.
IBT: Izmit archer => archer.
1830 bc (Turn 8): Worker joins Izmit_Lib. Build Ayden after renaming Izmit_Lib. Set to barracks next player may prefer warrior. Each time Sogut increases pop, one extra shield is produced so mm Sogut for extra gold and happiness. Izmit mm for archer in 5.
IBT: Sogut settler => warrior.
1790 bc (Turn 9): Settler and warrior move e toward site on coast and see barb galley. This site can use oysters full time. The cow site was also tempting but barb horses appeared next to Uskudar between archer on mountain and our warrior/worker pair on wheat.
IBT: Barb horse attacks fortified warrior in Uskudar and loses taking one hp from our warrior. Sogut warrior => settler. Zimbabwe builds Oracle.
1750 bc (Turn 10): Do some mm and move a worker to plains. Leave a fortified warrior on wheat. Settler and escort to build site on coast. Slider 7.1.2.
Treasury: 212 gold, +16 gpt. Writing in 11 turns.
Post-turn: Note that Sogut produces an extra shield between pop 5 and pop 6 so mm allows Izmit to use mined bg for a turn. Because Izmit needs an extra shield to produce archer next turn I've left Sogut producing only 10 shields this turn. Next turn it will catch up but it will have to be mm. Izmit can be changed to barracks as can Ayden be changed. Zulu and India still without writing.
Nice turns without having or creating problems.
The bad thing is the barb galley NE of Sogut. That means 2 AIs know map making. The good thing is Indians and Zulus still lacking writing. Let's hope that they need some more turn to learn how to build ships and that the seafaring civs are farther away.
We must push the GLib build. We have about 30 turns till writing, 55 till GLib. I would work a forest instead of the irrigated plains for the extra shield and get the pop growth from joining workers (i.e. the guy having roaded the incense next turn). As soon as the bg is mined, take it away from Aydin and give it to Iznik.
Uskudar should work flood plains instead of plains, switch temporarely to archer for coinciding worker build with pop growth, and then start a granary. The warrior should enforce the archer in protecting the worker.
I would mm Sogut for 1 shields and build worker/warrior. We don't have an escort for the next settler and the worker is useful.
PS: Another observation: both India and Zulus only have 4 cities. Either they have restricted room to grow or bad territory. Good for us.
Tone (swapped w Keath; up next)
Renata
tao
Sabre
Furiey
Keath (just played)
The bad thing is the barb galley NE of Sogut. That means 2 AIs know map making. The good thing is Indians and Zulus still lacking writing. Let's hope that they need some more turn to learn how to build ships and that the seafaring civs are farther away.
We must push the GLib build. We have about 30 turns till writing, 55 till GLib. I would work a forest instead of the irrigated plains for the extra shield and get the pop growth from joining workers (i.e. the guy having roaded the incense next turn). As soon as the bg is mined, take it away from Aydin and give it to Iznik.
Uskudar should work flood plains instead of plains, switch temporarely to archer for coinciding worker build with pop growth, and then start a granary. The warrior should enforce the archer in protecting the worker.
I would mm Sogut for 1 shields and build worker/warrior. We don't have an escort for the next settler and the worker is useful.
PS: Another observation: both India and Zulus only have 4 cities. Either they have restricted room to grow or bad territory. Good for us.
Tone (swapped w Keath; up next)
Renata
tao
Sabre
Furiey
Keath (just played)
The lack of writing in our first two contacts is very good news. Barb galleys, of course, are not. 
We don't have contact with Arabia, do we? Our borders are touching. Can you check, Tone? I assume we don't, since Keath apparently checked the status of Zulus and India on the last turn, but just want to confirm.
Renata
We don't have contact with Arabia, do we? Our borders are touching. Can you check, Tone? I assume we don't, since Keath apparently checked the status of Zulus and India on the last turn, but just want to confirm.
Renata
That worked out well as I will be away this weekend. I left the two goody huts for you. The one near Uskudar was tempting but I had a worker there. I think it should be safe to take them both soon. I'll be interested to see how you play the GH and barb camps.Tone said:
I have Izmit producing an archer next turn. I'd take the two archers and go after the camp(training grounds for elites)? But at deity this might not be the expert play. The other choice is to build a barracks instead of the archer.
This is where I would wait and put in a harbour instead of a barracks. Izmit can build galleys and cats, so it wouldn't need a barracks. In my games I usually choose either harbour or barracks. But I guess this debate is just the old galley debate all over again.
I noticed this, too, and figure it to be good news. This could be our cue to go on the offensive but I guess we'll have to wait and see how the GLib turns out. Everything depends on getting it first.tao said:
For right now, I think I'd rather have a barracks. We have none yet, afterall. (Later cities can build cats/galleys just as well as Izmit can, but we no other candidate for a reasonably early barracks at the moment.) I'd like to have vet archers to go after any early AI landings -- the extra hit point can make all the difference.
Renata
Renata
I would not do it (except as emergency method if we are under heavy attack), except maybe in Uskudar to speed the granary. Otherwise, we need to grow out pop to increase science for literature and production.Keath said:The other thing I thought of is pop rushing (remember that?
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