WackenOpenAir
Deity
Offa said:
Yes it does
SGOTM7 - Team Wacken
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Yes it does
Xevious
1 Solvalou left
Well, I'm sitting in the airport waiting for my flight to Colorado, and I was debating whether or not to download the save and play on my laptop on the plane and the more I think about it, the less I like the idea. I think I'll play it safe and wait until tonight at the hotel room when I have a guaranteed power source and no possibility of someone bumping my elbow and sacrificing a unit or some other stupid thing. So until then I'd love to see more discussion about our direction. From what I see now it looks like India is the target. I will sit down and looks things over much better after dinner.
Just do your best improving our nation and whatever you can do in fight against India.
Keep our island safe. I am worried about having Zulu and Arab galleys travelling our ways.
Actually it might be not a bad idea to generate Zulu's golden ages now while we are not in active war with them. Let them waste it building wonders and other crap and we will deal with them when after it's all over.
Keep our island safe. I am worried about having Zulu and Arab galleys travelling our ways.
Actually it might be not a bad idea to generate Zulu's golden ages now while we are not in active war with them. Let them waste it building wonders and other crap and we will deal with them when after it's all over.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Ok, i'm back again to spam the forum.
I have already told enough for now with my turnset i think.
I have complete faith in you xevious, when you post your turnset, i expect no less than the complete conquest of India
I have already told enough for now with my turnset i think.
I have complete faith in you xevious, when you post your turnset, i expect no less than the complete conquest of India
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
yes, please take out India before they unleash Ravi Shankar 
see! he's laughing at you now Xevious! quick, get the
see! he's laughing at you now Xevious! quick, get the
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I think we should either skip the zulu and let them live, maybe never to attack them and find our 66% elsewhere (use offa's offensive city to soak their attacks) or, we should build swords to attack them. Horses are no good against impi.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
yes, horses are maddening to use against impi, however, i wouldn't mind taking them out as they have land close to our capitol (ditto India), so we could get some low corruptions towns on thier islands to help unit production. also, i suggested to attack them now via a single, sacraficial warrior, so we trip thier GA while despotic and only able to produce impi, archers, and warriors (or do they have iron?). rather have that then a bunch of pikes. however, there is the danger of them building a lot of galleys and landing those impi on our island.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Productive cities on other islands IMO is an illusion.
And for what productive cities you can build there, it will increase the corruption for existing cities that are already developed.
Yes, i understand you prefer their GA now, my idea is that if we never attack them, they will never get a GA. I am afraid if we do attack them, they will prove a tough nut keeping us busy for 40 turns while we could take out 3 other nations during those 40 turns.
If we just build a city in their territory and fortify it properly, we maybe need to bring one spearman there every 10 turns to supplement its defences, but they wont attack with impi's, and certainly not win with them.
A city on hill with walls occupied with 1 archer and 3 spearmen will hold their attacks properly. We can do the same thing without a city, using a fortress instead. This would reduce the city flip problem, but is not able to build a barracks. I also don't know if this will properly draw their forces, but i think it does.
Maybe best not to put too many spears on a fortified hill though. I think if there are too many, they wont attack it.
(only if they have at least as many attackers as there are defenders i think)
BTW: look at the score graph, looks like poor team Bede is already losing the game
. Good to see that darkness's training team is going allong with the flow though 
Best to see of course is that we are hugely ahead and peacefull builder Klarius seems to have more culture than even 10 libraries can provide them. Do they think it is a 100k game again ?
And for what productive cities you can build there, it will increase the corruption for existing cities that are already developed.
Yes, i understand you prefer their GA now, my idea is that if we never attack them, they will never get a GA. I am afraid if we do attack them, they will prove a tough nut keeping us busy for 40 turns while we could take out 3 other nations during those 40 turns.
If we just build a city in their territory and fortify it properly, we maybe need to bring one spearman there every 10 turns to supplement its defences, but they wont attack with impi's, and certainly not win with them.
A city on hill with walls occupied with 1 archer and 3 spearmen will hold their attacks properly. We can do the same thing without a city, using a fortress instead. This would reduce the city flip problem, but is not able to build a barracks. I also don't know if this will properly draw their forces, but i think it does.
Maybe best not to put too many spears on a fortified hill though. I think if there are too many, they wont attack it.
(only if they have at least as many attackers as there are defenders i think)
BTW: look at the score graph, looks like poor team Bede is already losing the game
. Good to see that darkness's training team is going allong with the flow though Best to see of course is that we are hugely ahead and peacefull builder Klarius seems to have more culture than even 10 libraries can provide them. Do they think it is a 100k game again ?
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
i'm sure that we will be forced to attack an impi via landings anyways. however, i do see the logic of avoiding an invasion of thier home island as I agree that it will be a resource hog with the units we have atm.
re AI attacking spears: they will not attack an elite spear on a hill with an archer (or warrior/impi). they probably won't attack a vet on a mountian either, but not 100% sure. they will attack anything in a town. we can use this to our advantage via pillaging spears. land one on a mountian or hill, then pillage along the hills, mountians, and forests. or, use the eWarrior in the galley as a decoy for the pillaging spears (give the AI a 1 defense unit to attack instead of a 2 and they will go for it) so it can pillage developed tiles around the AI's core.
re AI attacking spears: they will not attack an elite spear on a hill with an archer (or warrior/impi). they probably won't attack a vet on a mountian either, but not 100% sure. they will attack anything in a town. we can use this to our advantage via pillaging spears. land one on a mountian or hill, then pillage along the hills, mountians, and forests. or, use the eWarrior in the galley as a decoy for the pillaging spears (give the AI a 1 defense unit to attack instead of a 2 and they will go for it) so it can pillage developed tiles around the AI's core.
Xevious
1 Solvalou left
Sorry I haven't had much time to play this so far, but I have started, and hope to finish tomorrow night.
Ok, looking over the save, I notice we are building galleys in 6 of our towns. Do we need that many galleys that quickly?
Pre-turn: Move 2 horses from Istanbul to galley. Switch Bursa to barracks. Switch Izmit to a horse since it has a barracks. Drop sci to 60% and switch scientist to taxman, Poly still due in 6. This should let me upgrade the last home warrior. Shuffle workers to get 2 workers chopping forest for Istanbul. Switch horse their to library now. Will finish in 2 turns.
IBT: Indian Warrior attacks sword and loses. An Indian stack of 3 spears and 5 warriors has appeared on the hill N,NE of Lahore. See 3 Arabian galleys on our coast.
975BC(0) Take Lahore with barracks!, losing 2 swords, but gaining an elite. It has 4 resistors. Move galley of horses in. So, there is the above mentioned stack on the hill, 3 warriors 2NW and a warrior NE of Lahore. Nobody attacked the 1/5 horse, so I'm moving it back toward our territory.Move Istanbul spear and sword to galley. Move 2 horses into Istanbul. Hmmm, what is upgrade cost for a warrior to sword? I thought it was 30? I've got 59g and can't upgrade? Have to make taxman in Bursa since I moved out it's MP.
IBT: A fourth Arabian galley sails. Arabian archer kills our elite horse. Indian warrior (3/3) attacks our unfortified grass sword (1/4) and loses, making our sword elite! Indian sword now on hill. Zulu builds Temple of Artemis. Arabs start Hanging Gardens. So Monarchy is known, if we can get poly before meeting green we might be able to get Monarchy? Hmmm.... America finishes Great Library in Washington. That means we need to find them now. America also builds Great Wall in Atlanta. Ouch.
950BC(1) Istanbul builds lib, start horse. Workers mine the chopped forest tile. Quell one resistor in Lahore. Move galley with spear/sword into Lahore. Attack warrior w/elite sword(4/5), win (3/5). Move elite sword(2/5) into Lahore. So, now 3 spears and 6 warriors next to Lahore. Take out one more warrior with sword (unhurt) and then fortify rest. Make scientist in Lahore, Sci->80% Poly in 3. Hmmm, galley is only losing 1 movement point for sea. Shouldn't it be two? Drop elite warrior on Arabian horses. Not sure it will survive but we'll see what happens.
I'm going to stop here for tonight and try to finish up tomorrow after class (about 4pm mountain or 6pm eastern time). Any comments on things so far would be appreciated. Current garrison of Lahore: 3 horses (4/4;4/4;4/4), spear (4/4), 4 swords (3/5;2/5;4/4;2/4). The horses still have movement. Should I attack the spear stack? There is one warrior left on forest, but of course, attacking it leaves the horse undefended (and right next to that tile is a sword and warrior on a hill.)
Ok, looking over the save, I notice we are building galleys in 6 of our towns. Do we need that many galleys that quickly?
Pre-turn: Move 2 horses from Istanbul to galley. Switch Bursa to barracks. Switch Izmit to a horse since it has a barracks. Drop sci to 60% and switch scientist to taxman, Poly still due in 6. This should let me upgrade the last home warrior. Shuffle workers to get 2 workers chopping forest for Istanbul. Switch horse their to library now. Will finish in 2 turns.
IBT: Indian Warrior attacks sword and loses. An Indian stack of 3 spears and 5 warriors has appeared on the hill N,NE of Lahore. See 3 Arabian galleys on our coast.
975BC(0) Take Lahore with barracks!, losing 2 swords, but gaining an elite. It has 4 resistors. Move galley of horses in. So, there is the above mentioned stack on the hill, 3 warriors 2NW and a warrior NE of Lahore. Nobody attacked the 1/5 horse, so I'm moving it back toward our territory.Move Istanbul spear and sword to galley. Move 2 horses into Istanbul. Hmmm, what is upgrade cost for a warrior to sword? I thought it was 30? I've got 59g and can't upgrade? Have to make taxman in Bursa since I moved out it's MP.
IBT: A fourth Arabian galley sails. Arabian archer kills our elite horse. Indian warrior (3/3) attacks our unfortified grass sword (1/4) and loses, making our sword elite! Indian sword now on hill. Zulu builds Temple of Artemis. Arabs start Hanging Gardens. So Monarchy is known, if we can get poly before meeting green we might be able to get Monarchy? Hmmm.... America finishes Great Library in Washington. That means we need to find them now. America also builds Great Wall in Atlanta. Ouch.
950BC(1) Istanbul builds lib, start horse. Workers mine the chopped forest tile. Quell one resistor in Lahore. Move galley with spear/sword into Lahore. Attack warrior w/elite sword(4/5), win (3/5). Move elite sword(2/5) into Lahore. So, now 3 spears and 6 warriors next to Lahore. Take out one more warrior with sword (unhurt) and then fortify rest. Make scientist in Lahore, Sci->80% Poly in 3. Hmmm, galley is only losing 1 movement point for sea. Shouldn't it be two? Drop elite warrior on Arabian horses. Not sure it will survive but we'll see what happens.
I'm going to stop here for tonight and try to finish up tomorrow after class (about 4pm mountain or 6pm eastern time). Any comments on things so far would be appreciated. Current garrison of Lahore: 3 horses (4/4;4/4;4/4), spear (4/4), 4 swords (3/5;2/5;4/4;2/4). The horses still have movement. Should I attack the spear stack? There is one warrior left on forest, but of course, attacking it leaves the horse undefended (and right next to that tile is a sword and warrior on a hill.)
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I take another look at the save game, and notice that i have looked wrong before. Hlobane does have culture already, so the library isn't gonna help a real lot. Might as well quit building it.
Maybe attack hlobane a little later. When there are enough horses to continue on India and safeguard SoZ and maybe build a few extra swords.
If we can gather 7 swords for Hlobane while continuing our offence on India with horses, i think we can attack it.
Other than that, i don't think we should take the Zulu yet, rather take the cultural offending Arabs after we have India with it's SoZ.
Please be carefull not to lose huge stacks in culture flips
I aint sure about attacking the spears, only if you are pretty sure you can kill them all i'd say. Since there is a barracks, maybe wait until everyone is healed.
Maybe attack hlobane a little later. When there are enough horses to continue on India and safeguard SoZ and maybe build a few extra swords.
If we can gather 7 swords for Hlobane while continuing our offence on India with horses, i think we can attack it.
Other than that, i don't think we should take the Zulu yet, rather take the cultural offending Arabs after we have India with it's SoZ.
Please be carefull not to lose huge stacks in culture flips
I aint sure about attacking the spears, only if you are pretty sure you can kill them all i'd say. Since there is a barracks, maybe wait until everyone is healed.
The Americans building the Great Library so early is good news in a way, as it implies it would have been very tough for us to have built it. The great wonder builds have gone a bit badly, but the TOA for the zulu probably won't hurt too much as the AI don't cram in towns to benefit much and would probably have built temples anyway. The Americans getting the wall is also rritating, but I guess the library city is > size 7 anyway so should still be gettable if we can find it.
Is it possible to get enough troops in Lahore to avoid a flip? (If not then we might be better just abandoning it.) If we can, then rushing walls and defending stoutly with spearmen might pay off. I'm not sure about this though, as I haven't checked on a battle simulator. Being attacked by a lot of swordsmen could be nasty. The indians will throw everything at the attack, and we could send in another force round the back which should meet with light resistance. A town on a hill would be great.
Dissconnecting Indian iron is vital and if we can achieve that the invasion should go smoothly. Attacking AI spears in the open should be avoided if possible. I don't think we should just barge on in this attack, we really want to maximize our kill ratio.
If you can get monarchy in a trade I will be very impressed, amazed even. I don't fancy your chances.
Uskadar will probably flip at some point, so we ought to keep troops outside to recapture it when it happens.
Is it possible to get enough troops in Lahore to avoid a flip? (If not then we might be better just abandoning it.) If we can, then rushing walls and defending stoutly with spearmen might pay off. I'm not sure about this though, as I haven't checked on a battle simulator. Being attacked by a lot of swordsmen could be nasty. The indians will throw everything at the attack, and we could send in another force round the back which should meet with light resistance. A town on a hill would be great.
Dissconnecting Indian iron is vital and if we can achieve that the invasion should go smoothly. Attacking AI spears in the open should be avoided if possible. I don't think we should just barge on in this attack, we really want to maximize our kill ratio.
If you can get monarchy in a trade I will be very impressed, amazed even. I don't fancy your chances.
Uskadar will probably flip at some point, so we ought to keep troops outside to recapture it when it happens.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Indeed, i don't think we would have made the Lib in time.
I don't think it is practically possible to prevent Indian cities from flipping. We should just leave them empty and retake them incase they flip. That always worked for me so far. Abandoning will require us to build settlers and the other civ's will be trying to settle the place as well. As we don't need to worry about WW, don't hesitate to allow anyone to retake the cities we conquer. If they move attackers inside, we can easilly take them back. This is better than flipping as flipping provides them free units.
I am not too worried about Indian Iron atm, i prefer to just leave lahore empty when we are healed, move out and conquer india before they have done much with their iron.
Uskadar is indeed at very high risk. Either keep units next to it (none inside) or destroy the Indian city when we can afford to send 7-8 swords.
Now that i think of it, conquering ToA is also very interesting as it will greatly reduce future culture flip risks.
I don't think it is practically possible to prevent Indian cities from flipping. We should just leave them empty and retake them incase they flip. That always worked for me so far. Abandoning will require us to build settlers and the other civ's will be trying to settle the place as well. As we don't need to worry about WW, don't hesitate to allow anyone to retake the cities we conquer. If they move attackers inside, we can easilly take them back. This is better than flipping as flipping provides them free units.
I am not too worried about Indian Iron atm, i prefer to just leave lahore empty when we are healed, move out and conquer india before they have done much with their iron.
Uskadar is indeed at very high risk. Either keep units next to it (none inside) or destroy the Indian city when we can afford to send 7-8 swords.
Now that i think of it, conquering ToA is also very interesting as it will greatly reduce future culture flip risks.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
re stack near Lahore: an individual, rWarrior only has a 10% chance vs a fortified vSpear. not sure what that turns into using Offa's town capture calculator (no jar's on the work computer), but the odds should be in our favor. Letting them attack should be ok, imho, maybe it will get us an elite spear and/or sword.
btw, C3C upgrade cost = delta shields * 3. So, upgrading a sword costs (30-10)*3 = 60g/unit. In PTW, it's Δ shields * 2.
btw, C3C upgrade cost = delta shields * 3. So, upgrading a sword costs (30-10)*3 = 60g/unit. In PTW, it's Δ shields * 2.
I have had a thought and i think it is not a bad idea.
Upon meeting new tribe and if they know Zulu i suggest we sign MA with them against Zulu before we declare on that new tribe.
Reputation matters nothing in this game and having Zulu wasting their GAs on someone else sounds like a good idea. Plus it will also help to draw some of the Zulu forces off their island.
Upon meeting new tribe and if they know Zulu i suggest we sign MA with them against Zulu before we declare on that new tribe.
Reputation matters nothing in this game and having Zulu wasting their GAs on someone else sounds like a good idea. Plus it will also help to draw some of the Zulu forces off their island.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I am fairly sure that is illegal.
We are not alowed to make any time based deals.
We are not alowed to make any time based deals.
On the second thought, i've read the rules and it only says:
It specifically mentions gpt and if i was a lawyer i would argue MAs may or may not have gpt deals included. Rules also say we can do trades before declaring.
So if instead of money we give that other tribe a technology for MA against Zulu we will be well under the rule's umbrella.
mad-bax said:
It specifically mentions gpt and if i was a lawyer i would argue MAs may or may not have gpt deals included. Rules also say we can do trades before declaring.
So if instead of money we give that other tribe a technology for MA against Zulu we will be well under the rule's umbrella.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
imho, that's against the varient rules. also, it's against any AW game i've ever played. even if it's not, it's so barely legal, that i would want MB to rule directly for us before we tried to pull that off.
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