SGOTM8 - Ivan

[King Alexander]

@Ivan: if we build the white dot from nerovats map, your proposed #7 dot fits fine(too bad we won't be able to build ships and use it as a cross-harbor!)

I also agree with the other dots you proposed, BUT I disagree for #2 and #3: IMHO, nerovats dot(between #2 and #3 of your proposed map) is far better.

That's what I have to say on the dot map.

 

[conehead234]

I think we should go White dot, then ivan's dot 7. After that we can decide where to go from there. I wouldn't go for the Pyrimands, we need to expand and not waste time on a wonder that we will not get.

 

[King Alexander]

The White dot city should immediately start on a couple of warriors for MP, and some archers for barb hunting, and also build barracks immediately when we learn BW.

What worries me is if we have Horses and Iron somewhere nearby(and I hope, saltpeter later on): Greece won't be defeated just with archers, and I assume, we don't want to start taking on Greece at the Industrial Ages(we'd want to control our island by then, and prepare for AF and helicopters).

I still don't know what to decide about the Pyramids. I just don't want to try and built it, and lose it by another civ, at this level, anyway. Sure, it'd be great if we could have them.

 

[AdrianE]

I've had a look at the save and dot maps.

An early granary gains us the equivalent of 10 food every 3 turns or 3.3fpt.
A settler only gains us 2fpt until we irrigate.

If we send the settler to a spot where he can collect 3fpt then we are ahead building the settler. If not a granary is better.

I like most of nerovats suggested sites and I like moving blue as he suggested. The Greeks aren't terribly threatening. We can't do much to them until we have cats or knights. We'd also have to cut a long road through the jungle/mountains to get at them.

I think sticking to RCP=4 is important. We can have 6 productive cities at RCP4.

Conehead why do you want white settled first? What is the advantage? It will have low growth. Personally I think nerovats red spot (3N of washington) is best.

I don't like Ivan's red spot. That town will only ever be a fishing village.

From the space race screen we haveRome, Greece, China, England, Vikings and japan to deal with.

Greece has Bronze and the wheel on us. Athens is pop 1 so they must have a settler out already.

 

[conehead234]

Well I wasn't thinking when I said that. We need a high production city for the next site, so we can get out warriors. I would support the pink site, as it has a BG, and will get another upon expansion. Red is a good arguement also, because it may allow us to pump more workers. So it is either workers or warriors. I support warriors.

 

[nerovats]

Done some counting, granary in 6 (by mm to forests) will let us build settler in 4 (10 turns end up size 4). Building settler in 3 will make us build granary in 9 including chop (12 turns drop to size end up size 6). So settler first it is. Settle pink on my dot map then red as WF.

 

[I. Larkin]

"An early granary gains us the equivalent of 10 food every 3 turns or 3.3fpt.
A settler only gains us 2fpt until we irrigate."
I still belive that setller first better.
First fud round down. With 4 fpt granary save 2 turns or 8 food. Don't forget, that new City produces schields, and gold, not only food. Also at fl/pl desise may strike large City. At despotism Cities support more military. Granary costs 1gpt.
"I think sticking to RCP=4 is important. We can have 6 productive cities at RCP4. "
Dot map Very difficult task. Withe dot is the best because it takes only 2 turns to settle. From comon sence better to setle near fresh water first to avoid "saturation" at size 6.
My red dot 1 is not bad. It has only 3 sea tiles. But it will grow fast and be productive. It also can be protected better. Nerovats red spot (3N of washington) difficult to protect.
Unfortunaly land configuratiun do not allowed any other rings then 4 and 5, but I think we must use 5.

(I am not 100% sure, Adrean ofen says right things). AFAIK ring5 does not spoil ring 4. Anyhow, we may settle ring 5 (pink1) very after.
"I wouldn't go for the Pyrimands, we need to expand and not waste time on a wonder that we will not get."
Pyramid is not that bad at our huge Island. If we miss Pyramids we MUST build GW (very useless wonder, but less expensive) to have a chance to trig GA when we will build Copernicus. GA at MA worse 200 shields, IMHO.

"The Greeks aren't terribly threatening. We can't do much to them until we have cats or knights. We'd also have to cut a long road through the jungle/mountains to get at them."
Sure. I belive they will help us a lot! i think we are Tehcs leaders now.
I think there is no reason to scout North, but return back clockwise.

 

[King Alexander]

Yes, we better have our Golden Age at the Middle Ages, to help us make some damage to Greece, and reduce them to 1 city after a while and not kill them(we need their free tech ).

I think, we should keep scouting to know better the map because of: i) to know the map for strategical decisions and ii) to not pay too much to trade it. I'd suggest that the settler S of our capital goes scouting north to the jungle(AFTER he pops the huts in the mountain), so we scout the jungle faster, and maybe, gain some more techs or gold. Keep scouting!

 

[I. Larkin]

I think nort scout sould return back asap. Greeks defenetly scout north area already and poped huts there. They also will scout south-east from Athen, we must be first here. We may continue north later.
New dotmap: 2,3 instead 2 and 3 will be stronger, of course. Another 12 size City 1 For Pyramids it is better. 1' will need harbor and aqueduct, but we will have more room.
It have only 3 sea tiles and at Republic with irrigated GL s will work on mountings . Next is 4. With Lib it will open GH over channel and wil have BG. All at Ring 4. Not sure about next. 7 looks logical but at distance 5, 6 or 6' are not good. It cover 4 tiles, however.
The same with City 8 .

 

[King Alexander]

IMHO, #6 should definetly go on the coast, so it can build a harbor and support more pop later on(will give more gold this way).

 

[I. Larkin]

IMHO, #6 should definetly go on the coast, so it can build a harbor and support more pop later on(will give more gold this way).

OK. I also insist that white 1 better then yellow 1'.
Ivan

 

[AdrianE]

I've played:

preturn: MM washington and switch to settler

2950BC nothing

2900BC pop hut and learn the wheel. Horses are just out of reach.

2850BC nothing

2800BC spot unpopped goody hut up north

2750BC watch chinese warrior pop hut
contact Chinese

2710BC found New York - it has olive/desert in radius = Bonus grass land in despotism - I chose this city as it makes more cash than the others. Cash=research
China has iron working

trade wheel to China for Bronze working. China has Iron working.

2670BC - southern scout finds barb in mountains

2630BC - southern scout dies

2590BC - nothing

2550BC - nothing

I have moved New York's warrior back to Washington to deal with the barb coming out of the mountains. New York will build a warrior this turn.

The worker should irrigate a flood plains or two in New York's radius and then mine the olives.

Adrian

 

[nerovats]

I think we should post a warrior on the first mountain towards the southeast (choke point). Barbs will be easier to control.
City 1 will have 5 sea tiles in radius, but that leaves enough workable tiles until hospitals.
Settle order: 1,7,4,8,6. City 1 will be able to grow biggest so build it earlier, 7 will gain 2 BG and help control the barbs, 4 will add 1 BG.
I thought we were gona play more then 10 turns first round?

 

[I. Larkin]

Wise play Adrian. I think you could play more turns.
Me up, conehead next. Or King-Alex?
What do you think about
1) Worker from N-Y? (no)
2)poprush granary? (may be)
3)Settler instead Granary? (probably not)
4)Send warrior scout north? (why not)
Mid-term
1) Where next City? (I think my 1)
2) Will we try Pyramids (not sure)
3) Will we have embassy? (sure) Who first? (don't know)

 

[King Alexander]

First, we got 1 more free and expensive tech, the Wheel
Unfortunately, we don't have horse nearby...

1) Worker from N-Y? (no)

First, let it build the warrior.

2)poprush granary? (may be)

Is it worth it to poprush a granary after the warrior? I assume, we'll poprush a unit first and change back to granary? It'd be nice if we had a worker factory, so we let our cities to focus on infrastructure and units.

3)Settler instead Granary? (probably not)

It'd only had meaning, if we'd go after those dyes(we're going to need a second luxury, apart from those gems in the S mountains). Better not build a settler, but pump out only workers.
It'd be nice if we could, at some point, to settle on the hill, right next of the dyes, so we'd secure them, but the Chinese may be faster to it.

4)Send warrior scout north? (why not)

OK for the scout, but we need another warrior nearby, so we protect our settlers(or the capital of barb pillaging). Do you think, we have chances of poping up another hut and learn more techs(if China and Greece hasn't explore the all the area yet).

Mid-term
1) Where next City? (I think my 1)

OK. Then, we should settle #7, to secure city #1 from barbs(if we want the Pyramids).

2) Will we try Pyramids (not sure)

If we're serious about the Pyramids, we should just road until NY, and then order the worker to move back and start mining/cutting the forests around city #1: we should ALREADY have a mined tile(every time) before city #1 grows.
Maybe, if we see that 1 worker has difficulty in cutting a forest and mine it in time- before the city grows- we should send a second worker(produced by the capital or NY).

3) Will we have embassy? (sure) Who first? (don't know)

Definetly Greece: at the Ancient Age, they're very dangerous, and this level is Emperor: if Greece attacked us and had it's Golden Age, it'd send 1000 hoplites to pillage every single tile in no time!
Besides, better to be nice with Greece, and, maybe, ally with them against the Chinese later on... and just attack Greece soon after the alliance is over

Ivan, you can play if you want to, or I could play soon: the problem is, maybe we should wait to discuss things more?

 

[I. Larkin]

Playing now. All done as suggested except Pyramids

 

[King Alexander]

Maybe Greece or China will built the Pyramids on our island, if we won't build them, after all...
We'll go for the GW then?

 

[I. Larkin]

I uploaded file to server. I played 20 turns and will not write detaieled turnlog.
Just few things to mention:
1)(turn5) Scouting shows that greeks at war with china and will win. Once I saw that 2 workers run down to Bejgin. However, it was impossible to trade workers. ALLAN, WHY?
2)Kill barb camp at jungle, kill 2 barbs near BG and 2 at NY forest.
3) turn 9: discover writing and sell to greeks for IW and 25 g. (all they had, but they offered 16 first)
4)Embassy at Athen: try to get picture but failed (Ctr+PritnScr does not work) After some reloads gave up. As remember they haw 2 goplits, build archer. They are at war with China.
5) Turn 14: China got Mysticizm I trde it for writing and 22 gold. (To avoid their peace deal).
6)Found boston and kill 1 barb near.
7) build 2 workers as 2 turn worker factory.
8) Visited north of island. Met barbs and run away. We may observe war to prevent total killing of China. I think, however we may kill them before MA with MA.
9) Start to build next Settler. Dilema is in 2 turns or in one
Washington may work as 5 and 4 turn SF (2 Settlers in 9 turns) but needs artistic micromanagement. (Let discuss)
It is resonable to play 10 tirns, brifly discuss (how to trade Lit) and continue.
King-Alex up.
Roster is K-A, Conehead, Nerovats, Adrian.

 

[King Alexander]

1)(turn5) Scouting shows that greeks at war with china and will win. Once I saw that 2 workers run down to Bejgin. However, it was impossible to trade workers. ALLAN, WHY?

If the workers had a movevent, they'd probably go to work at the other side(or we actually can't buy workers?)

4)Embassy at Athen: try to get picture but failed (Ctr+PritnScr does not work) After some reloads gave up. As remember they haw 2 goplits, build archer. They are at war with China.

Did you noticed if Greece is in it's Golden Age(from the shields the tiles gave)?

8) Visited north of island. Met barbs and run away. We may observe war to prevent total killing of China. I think, however we may kill them before MA with MA.

Do you think, it'd be better for us that China is wiped out? Maybe they could sign a peace deal with Greece soon.
I just have a bad feeling that Greece will come after us soon if/when it exterminates China and settles the rest of the land.

We're REALLY in a bad position! We haven't horses, we haven't Iron nearby(Greece has, and mayeb it'll also finds horse somewhere or IF it destroys China), and, despite the war, Greece already has settled 3 cities(compared to our 2) and has captured 1 more!
How are we supposed to fight the Hoplites? Do you know how many archers we need to capture just 1 city of theirs(including Hoplite promotions, and probably face swordsmen soon).

We must DEFINETLY send archers to explore the S mountains, to see if there's Iron there, OTHERWISE, we need to re-evaluate our strategy, concerning a war with Greece as soon as possible?

On the other hand, we can just build 4-5 spears, park them in one of the N mountains, and just totally BLOCK the way, if we see Greek units coming for us...(this will hold for a while, until reinforcements come, even against swords).

9) Start to build next Settler. Dilema is in 2 turns or in one
Washington may work as 5 and 4 turn SF (2 Settlers in 9 turns) but needs artistic micromanagement. (Let discuss)

Better to wait 2 turns.
btw: the worker next to NY should just irrigate 1 more plain, so Washington has more shields(instead of working the water lake).

So, we won't go for the Pyramids?

It is resonable to play 10 tirns, brifly discuss (how to trade Lit) and continue.
King-Alex up.
Roster is K-A, Conehead, Nerovats, Adrian.

Of course I'll stop playing to discuss things when we learn Lit(or other techs), so we can decide about trade possibilities: I'd suggest to do the same when we'll meet other Civs.

I could play soon, but first, we need to decide many things.

 

[nerovats]

I don´t understand how you managed to get only one settler out in 20 turns, Can´t tell form the log what you spend the other turns on. You should have been able to get a first settler on turn 6, 7 the latest then every 4 and 5 turns. I expect you used washington for the 2 workers? But then still...?

Hard to tell with no picture but sounds like we need units fast. If Greece takes out the chinese the probably be twice our size before we get to them, so we should take them on as quickly as possible. Maybe we should team up with china NOW and hope greece will send some units down. Get some units into those mountains as KA suggested. Without horses and iron we´ll need a very good strat to take Greece on, even with Chinese help.