SGOTM8 - Own

[IstariAsuka]

@Andronicus Agreed totally. We need workers.

I don't have access to the save. Do our friends have any contacts? I assume not.

About research: We need to think about trying to get the republic slingshot. Missing that would be a huge setback and it's still not impossible.

At the point we are right now, I suggest that we research Philosophy full out and then stop when we are one turn from it. When CoL appears, finish Philo and trade through the big picture. Then take Republic as our free tech. Ideally, of course, CoL would appear before we get Philo but if it doesn't we should take the risk and wait for it to do so. The potential gain of this course is far greater than the risk. Missing the free tech is no big deal if all we get out of it is Map making or some such thing. Getting Republic is a huge boon.

I disagree with this course of action. The AIs almost invariably go for philosophy before Code of Laws, in my experience. If we wait around for someone to get CoL, someone will finish philosophy first and we will not get a free tech out of it at all. I think that we should research CoL ourselves and then philosophy, in the hopes we'll make it, or just research philosohpy now and pop CoL (if no AIs manages to get it by then, which is very very likely). Sure, it's not ideal, but waiting around 1 turn from completing philosophy is, in my opinion, a very bad idea indeed.

 

[Abegweit]

Philosophy is about the last priority for the AI. Not quite as low as Literature, but close. I would have preferred to go for CoL followed by Philo too but, right or wrong, that's not what happened.

One free tech is small beer. Good trading can make up for the loss. Snagging one of the expensive government techs is a very different story.

 

[Symphony D.]

I'm sorry about the settler factory guys, didn't pay enough attention to the thread and was sort of in a bit of a rush to get the turns done before heading out of town. Won't happen again.

I too have noticed the AI having somewhat of a propensity to pick Philosophy sometimes. Also, it's really not going to come much faster even if you jack research all the way up, so as is is about as fast as it goes. Waiting for CoL is a huge gamble in a lot of ways I think. But we're already rolling big so I see no real problems - we won't really be missing much anyway given our alternate choices are Polytheism (mostly worthless given our government track), Map Making (worthless), and Literature (only good for Libraries). If we lose out on the free tech it really isn't all that huge of a set back, so I'm not hugely opposed to gambling on it.

Obtaining Gems and Dyes would seem to be our second highest priority behind expansion right now so Luxury spending can be turned down for further Research.

 

[stagnate]

Ok here's the run. Sorry I didn't get it to last night. Really misplayed it; got greedy and thought that I could make a run at CoL, missed it AND the free tech. Problem isn't so much whether AI would research Philo or CoL, but that there were so many other techs that they would research first (HBR, IW, MM) -- and we lost 20 turns of research.

We need to secure the horses, I think a short term war against China in ~50 turn might be a good idea.

To the next player: China is sending a settler down into our territory. I have a settler headed north to settle in the last available spot (at least last spot that won't crowd the AI). I want to lure the chinese settler so that they leave that spot open, but then cover up the choke point with a unit so they have to turn around. Let me know if you aren't sure what I'm refering to.

We can build the FP now; IIRC it doesn't matter very much where it is at (makes that city have less corruption, but for other cities it only matters that it exists, not where it is). Probably build it in O2 once the temple finishes, but it's flexible.

Link http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Own_SG008_BC1225_01.SAV

Turn 0 (1750 BC):

Cities look good, several workers due. Moved the warrior from O2 to cover the worker north.

Greece is up BW and The Wheel, China is up Math, BW and The Wheel.

Specialist scientist in O3 but not affecting the result? 5 turns for Philosophy, I'm concerned that with only two civs to trade with we might miss the window. Move science to 70% which gives us +4 and 7 turns. I'll wait to see what tech Greece is going for; if they don't get CoL I will probably go ahead and get Philosophy.

Turn 1 (1725 BC): Add taxman so Washington doesn't riot, Settler in 1.

Turn 2 (1700 BC): Washington builds Settler, starts settler. Workers by Washington finish, one moving to build road and colony on gems. Other heads to develop O3. O2 builds worker, starts temple. O2 worker heads north to road and clear jungle. Settler heads north to grab dyes (can backfill after). Luxury down to 10%.

Turn 3 (1675 BC): O4 builds worker, starts Barracks. Worker will chop forest to rush production. Scout in danger from some barbs.

Turn 4 (1650 BC): O5 builds worker, starts Temple. Worker helping road to Gems. Change O6 to a worker, 2x cities building barracks already, don't need regular troops.

Turn 5 (1625 BC): ZZZ

Turn 6 (1600 BC): Set Research to 0, +15/t.

Turn 7 (1575 BC): Washington builds Settler, starts Settler. Archer kills barbs in the SE mountains. Move warrior from O3 to go with Settler, set taxman to prevent unhappiness (barracks in 1).

Turn 8 (1550 BC): O2 riots; moving citizens and changing the lux slider but missed the effect.

Turn 9 (1525 BC): O6 builds worker, starts worker. Workers building road north have to retreat because barbs just appeared!

Turn 10 (1500 BC): Barbs growing, 2x warrior and horseman now. Dance dance :-/

Turn 11 (1475 BC): ZZZ

Turn 12 (1450 BC): O7 founded by dyes next to barb. Warrior loses to Barb, second warrior disperses the camp.

IBT lose 29g to barb, another barb appears.

Turn 13 (1425 BC): Move units north. Still stuck on Philo; nothing worth getting yet per se (could go currency but trade with China would be expensive). Nothing from Greece yet. I think we are still safe, though.

Turn 14 (1400 BC): Warrior loses to barb. Settlers moving into position. China discovered Map Making, dunno what the Greeks are up to. O3 finishes Archer starts on Archer.

Turn 15 (1350 BC): O4 finishes Barracks, starts on Archer. Scout is going to die, but acts as a good lure to let our unprotected Settler get into position. We only have a few more city spots left. Can build FP now.

Turn 16 (1325 BC): O9 founded, starts worker.

Turn 17 (1300 BC): ZZZ

Turn 18 (1275 BC): Washington builds settler, starts settler. O6 builds worker starts worker. Greece has MM, set research for Poly in 1. Math would require 290 and 10g/t which is way too much IMO. Given that, Philo freebie for CoL and rush to Republic seems like the best bet.

Turn 19 (1250 BC): Didn't get Philo tech. I really screwed up this set of turns. Trade Philo to Greece for 53g, BW, and The Wheel. Philo and 27g to China for IW. Shanghai has the only horses on the island. Greece has the only Iron, far to the north.

IBT Japan finishes the Oracle.

Turn 20 (1225 BC): ZZZ

 

[Andronicus]

Things are moving along
I opened the file to have a look and I have come up with some suggestions

Settler factory
Washington currently size 4 - needs to be size 5 with no food or shields in box at beginning of turn 1 of factory
This can occur next turn if switch build to archer, and work irr lambs, 2 mined BGs and mined plains - this gives 2 extra food to fill food box and 8 shields to the current 10 in box (plus 2 from forest on growth) giving 20 shield build next turn (alt to archer is wall or spear).
If anyone unsure how to use 4 turn settler factory I will spell it out (sorry for those to whom this is obvious but I think it important we all know what to do to get the max bonus from our factory - this is what allows us rapid expansion)
Work irr lambs, 2 mined BGs (sorry but 04 has to give one up), and 2 irr FPs -> 5 extra food + 6 shields every turn
At growth on turns 2 and 4 next tile is automatically allocated to max production, hence working forest (may work mined plains - dont know as this same production). After growing this has to be manually changed to the irr plains tile on turn 3
Thus
Turn 1 size 5 : work iL,mBG,mBG,iFP,iFP ->5F,6S
Turn 2 size 5 : work iL,mBG,mBG,iFP,iFP ->5F,6S+2S from forest on growth (total 10F,14S)
* switch forest tile to iPl
Turn 3 size 6 : work iL,mBG,mBG,iFP,iFP,iPl ->5F,7S (total 15F,21S)
Turn 4 size 6 : work iL,mBG,mBG,iFP,iFP,iPl -> 5F,7S +2S from forest on growth (total 10F, 30S) -> settler

We need at least 6 more settlers for jungle region and 1 for choke point. Archer near 06 and archer about to be produced could block Chinese spear/settler.

I have put in a dot map - southern yellow is choke city, other yellow my thoughts for remaining cities ICSed into area south of AI - once Chinese settler blocked, I believe they will likely settle purple dot - there are other potential sites, but IMO this placement maximises coast / river avoiding too close to Chinese (and provoking war before we are ready).
On this layout we only need to road 2 jungle tiles (red dots) to connect up our road network, clearing remaining jungle can wait as can extra roading as these cities will be largely corrupt. The pressing need is to connect the dyes(NW red dot)

Diplomacy
We can currently buy MM, but not maths (as China has monop)
I recommend
1) est embassies with both China and Greece
2) buy MM - from Greeks since they have little money (and we want them to have some so they can give it back to us - see below)
3) sell world map - and repeat every turn
4) renogotiate peace - we are much more powerful than Greeks and slightly more so than Chinese on power graph - hence it is likely they will pay us to continue peace(I dont see us likely to attack in the next 20 turns, but perhaps others see it differently) - unless we are ready for war in the following 20 turns we should get the AI to pay us in peace deals every 20 turns. I believe it is important that we maintain our reputation by honoring these deals (for as long as it is our interests ).

Hiring taxmen and scientists
I avoid using these in the early game and in core cities as it stunts growth (all important) and limits production. I prefer to use the lux slider. This is esp important in the settler factory. Once we have a few more workers our corrupt northern cities can hire scientists.

20turn sets?
I thought the decision was 10 turns? - see post 113

Forbidden Palace
I think we should be building it now - if switch 02 from temple it will be built in 51 turns (should get quicker as grows)

Edit: Oops - I left out city between 07 and choke point.

 

[stagnate]

There is one settler headed north. My goal is to sucker the chinese settler pair down to the chokepoint, but block it off at the last minute, and send our settler to settle on or near the purple dot. The AI won't build a city within 2 tiles of another city, so then our ICS build is safe and they'll start expanding overseas.

We need to be sure that we have enough military once we start the ICS, because it'll start to piss the AI off. Got washington mixed up, I was doing a 6 turn factory and didn't pay enough attention.

I misread the post about turn length.

Anything else that I can mess up?

 

[Andronicus]

Anything else that I can mess up?

I'm sure we'll all take our turns to "mess up" in some way - I thought I could have done my turnset better, but for me its a learning experience and going by the progressive scores we're not doing too bad at all.
I'm sorry if I sounded critical

 

[Andronicus]

Who's up next?
If Own not avail suggest we skip again making Abegweit next then voe

 

[IstariAsuka]

Whoever goes next, please remember to submit a save at 1000BC, even if you continue playing after that.

 

[Andronicus]

No news from Own or Abegweit - suggest voe plays if avail - whoever takes it make sure to post a "got it" so we dont have 2 people playing.

 

[Own]

I'm back....

 

[AlanH]

ALL C3C TEAMS PLEASE NOTE:

The SGOTM framework for C3C has the following changes from the out-of-the-box rules:

- aluminium will appear when you research fission instead of rocketry
- uranium will appear when you research computers instead of fission

These mods were also in SGOTM 6 and 7 as well, but didn't really affect anyone. This game could be different

 

[Own]

This game could be different

Not for us . What are these changes supposed to do? I don't care, just curious .

 

[Gyathaar]

Not for us . What are these changes supposed to do? I don't care, just curious .

Most likely they were not deliberate, but a sideeffect of importing sgotm resources into c3c, and the required techs got shewed due to facism, ironclads and radio tech differences.

 

[Andronicus]

Own - if you're avail I suggest you post a got it and play - 3 players yet to have a turn, also Abegweit and voe, but they havn't posted for a while. First of you 3 to post a got it plays, I suggest. Now over 4 days since stagnate posted last turn set. Anyone unavail for a while should post a skip me.

 

[Andronicus]

ALL C3C TEAMS PLEASE NOTE:

The SGOTM framework for C3C has the following changes from the out-of-the-box rules:

- aluminium will appear when you research fission instead of rocketry
- uranium will appear when you research computers instead of fission

These mods were also in SGOTM 6 and 7 as well, but didn't really affect anyone. This game could be different

These changes do have 1 important effect. It will not be enough to research rocketry to build F15 but require fission also to show where the aluminium is (also for modern armour, stealth planes, cruise missiles).
Unlikely we will req uranium unless we want to buuild nukes (may speed up final conquest) or uranium plants - in which case we have to research computers to find the uranium.

All this seems a long way away at the moment.

 

[Own]

Allright, got it, but we need four, not two units to make that choke point.

 

[Own]

Preturn- Move units in 007 and 009 around to make a choke. When the worker is complete, he can assist too until we get another warrior. On the trading subject, China is up Map Making and mathe. Greece is only up Map making. We just need to trade CoL once we're done to China for mathe, then trade math to Greece for maps.
1. Choke is underway, and moving settler to CXC away from a chinese city, and culture bombing it.
2. zzz
3. MapStat didn't alert me that Washington was gonna riot for some reason, and Washington did riot .
9. Goody hut is 50 gold. Meh.
10. Finish CoL. Trade China CoL and 120 gold for Mysticism and mathematics.

Will have save and screenie soon.

A trick with the settler factory:
We need to irrigate the other Flood plains. We can work a forest instead of a plains when the food box is empty for 4 fpt and extra shields. Next turn, we switch the forest to a FP, making 6 fpt which makes up for initially working the forest, but we get extra shields anyway from the forest on growth. I think we get 1 extra shied from this gambit.

 

[Own]

I didn't know what to research, so I went to republic, but someone can change that without wasting research turns.

 

[stagnate]

Some notes.

1) Make sure we have good military to the north. Encroaching the chinese lands will make them hate us, and we need to make sure that we can handle an assault.

2) Start building and planning for a small scale war to take the horses. We need to secure that resource.

3) If possible try to settle the hill to the NW of our northern most city; it is the only space left that the AI will settle (they won't get within two spaces of another city) and it'd be good to grab as a jumping point to attack the horses.

Most important is the military, both to handle any inbound attacks, and to be ready to take Shanghai to secure the horses.