[BTS] Shadow Game - Emperor / Sitting Bull

[Hesha]

I know I'm going to regret this...

Okay, so I've rolled Sitting Bull. Rolled Shake before, but unfortunately I had forgotten to set the map to Pangaea. Had to re-roll and here we are.

It's all as standard as it gets, standard world size, standard settings (NE, NH), only thing I changed was the map type from my beloved Fractal to Pangaea.

In my last shadow game I asked with every update what I should do, this time around I will present what I think I should do and then you can comment on it!

Here we are in 4000BC, save included, in case you want to play along:

Spoiler :

Crap start with a crap leader / civ, if you ask me (for my n00b opinion). Dog Soldiers are okay, I guess, but the UB is a joke and I don't have to talk about PRO

I'm not much inclined to SIP here. My plan would probably be to move the warriors SE and the settlers W to a possible city location... what do you think?

EDIT: Warrior movement.

 

[lymond]

SB is actually a pretty good leader. Pretty much any PHI leader is not bad. Starting techs are ok. He's actually a good high level leader due to those Dogs.

Sheep is crap and it is awfully brownish looking W. My inclination would be one of the plains hills, but I agree with you that I like moving the warrior 1SE. I usually move the unit based on a) what I might lose with a move b) or in expectation or assumption of what is hidden..i.e., look one way with plan to settle the other way so to speak.

The FPs to the N have attraction, but the focus is always finding strong food resources first. Cross fingers for more. Cause thirsty sheep ain't it.

Anyway, part of the starting analysis is analyzing the fog. That comes with experience. Like I know already that that is probably a hill 2S. And NE past the FPs is probably the ocean.

The tile 2E1S of settler is unforested grass and could be a food resource.

So basically I want to know what is on that tile before making a decision, unless I was assuming SIP and just wanted more info to see if there is a better spot. You already have a lot of info here already based on the large viewing area at the start...warrior on hill...settler next to lake

 

[Fippy]

No idea where to move before your warrior checks SE,
SIP might still be best here if you find a resi there.

edit: yup agree with Lymo that plains sheep are not great,
but they are improved fast (4t) and give 5 for settlers & workers, so they are worth something and can be included if possible.

 

[Hesha]

Okay guys, here's your move:

Spoiler :

You were right. There is food down there. Wet Corn.

I spotted the ocean as well, but I have no idea how you can tell there's a hill 2S (from what?).

 

[Fippy]

Okay, now i would move the settler 1E, next turn warrior 1E too and depending on what he finds settle on one of the east plains hills.
(if warrior spots nothing new, upper one is better ofc)

 

[lymond]

Ha..actually I was wrong...wasn't really paying that close attention...but sometimes you can tell by fog gazing.

SIP is certainly fine, but I'm inclined to get all the FPs in my cap ..really nice bureau cap. So I'd settle 1NE.

As My says, the PHs are a consideration for a faster start with bonus tile. It does lose an FP with that move, but still strong

this is a nice start no matter how you look at it. the wet corn makes this shweet

 

[Hesha]

Okay, now i would move the settler 1E, next turn warrior 1E too and depending on what he finds settle on one of the east plains hills.
(if warrior spots nothing new, upper one is better ofc)

Interesting!

Here's the result of your move. I might be way off here, but that looks like a pretty crappy starting location to me. Not what you made of it, I mean in general.

Spoiler :

 

[Hesha]

this is a nice start no matter how you look at it. the wet corn makes this shweet

I might be way off here, but that looks like a pretty crappy starting location to me. Not what you made of it, I mean in general.

Hahaha... classic Hesha.

 

[Fippy]

Well you get strong starting tiles (corn, 3 fps, green river hill for some production), i still like this better than SIP with sheep overall.
Mainly cos you can skip AH and go BW first.
Lymo's 1ne has 1 more fp, but i'd prefer the plains hill

 

[lymond]

I know you do

straight to BW is definitely the play here

don't forget to deselect mining until turn 5...now 3 turns away

 

[Hesha]

Cool. Maybe this will be a more Fippy-heavy game ^^ Last time Ly pretty much called the shots

Okay. Next turn the settler settles... and the warrior? 1SW?

What bugs me about this location is that I hate having ocean/coastal tiles in the BFC when the city isn't coastal. But that's just my OCD talking.

 

[lymond]

I hope she does help out more she's awesome at the game.

I would just continue scouting around the immediate area..unfog all nearby coast to check for seafood. Looks like you are on the SE portion of the landmass.

A coupla coastal tiles ain't gonna kill you. In most games you would never be large enough to ever work those tiles.

Anyway, I'm out for the night or at least many hours. Time to eat and do some xmas prep.

We better watch out, Hesh is going to be dangerous soon...at least on tiny maps

 

[Hesha]

Spoiler :

Oh, gee. My old me would totally hate that now. All those resources and they're all outside of the BFC.

 

[lymond]

But the new you goes "New City!!!". Unfortunate about the sheep since you have to settle on it to get that fish but still fine. Probably not near one of the earlier cities though.

Since that is clearly the edge of the map there, I would focus the warrior more in the other direction. Maybe 1SE and then 1SW and back in that direction.

ok..really out now

 

[Fippy]

lol that's unlucky indeed, happens sometimes.
Lymo has muuuch more motivation for shadow games, doubtful that i will ever be near his activity

But yep on the + side you have several good city spots close now already, unlucky part is being unable to settle 2E.
Even capitals only need ~10 useful tiles maximum for efficient play, less will work too.

 

[Hesha]

Yeah. I just hope the PH just 1N of the settlers original starting position doesn't end up better than this one...

Spoiler :

Ech... yikes. Looks like I might be iso again. How... is that possible on Pangaea?

 

[Fippy]

Pangaea is never Iso, they will find you
Sometimes several AIs have no open borders with 1 AI that blocks them thou, then you need more scouting yourself.

I just noticed one positive thingy about your cap move, fish will be inside culture on turn 52,
so imo a city on sheep can be placed rather early. Needs little worker help, just a workboat for +6

 

[Hesha]

Fair enough, I guess! So, I take it the first job for the worker will be to improve that wet corn?

 

[Hesha]

Turn 20:

Spoiler :

I met Willem, so I'm not alone - good. Just improved the corn, city will grow soon. One turn later the warrior will be finished. Would you start settlers now or when size 3 is reached / after the next warrior?

What to research after BW? AH? Or straight for Sailing/Masonry and try the GLH again?

What should the worker do? As far as I can tell, he's in an awkward position, because he can't chop yet and is several moves away from anything other than hills for mining. I guess farming a FP?

In terms of settling, 1SW of rice looks good to me?

Hmm... do you think it would have been better in hindsight to settle 1E from where we settled?

 

[Fippy]

I think the best tech path would be wheel & pottery here, always very good for floodplains cottages and granaries.
AH would only be for sheep right now, not that important.

Where Willy's scout stands might be the best 2nd city spot, needs 2 roads for a connection but otherwise close.
Can share green cottages with Cahokia after forests are chopped, and is an overall useful city.

I would not farm any floodplains for Cahokia, will be good food already and you want cottages on those.
Mining 1N of your worker wouldn't be wrong, plains hill mines are not great but 4h1c is helpful early, and timing fits rather well for chopping afterwards.