Shock, well not so much shock as disgust, as Palestinains break cease fire again!

[nivi]

Originally posted by Fëanor



@Nivi , well unless you think being palestinian makes you guilty of something.

Not at all.

I think brain-washing young adults and creating bombs and shooting at an IDF soldier make you guilty of something, but it doesn't matter, becuase israel took that land and isn't willing to give more the 97% of it back, + some dunes for that missing 3%.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Fëanor
becouse it irritates me that people try to paint one side Good and the other as evil , i just want to poin out that israel in his own way is as guilty as the palestinians are in this bloody mess.

but what irritates me most is that innocents die just so that those sick little morons of Arafat and Sharon can continue their sick little Tug of war over some land , and maybe pass their game on to the next generation of sick little politicians.

I think there's a slight difference in this matter between a leader who started the intifada, a terror campaign aimed at conquering land, and the leader who declared he's willing to accept a cease fire as soon as the other side accepts one.

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
Had the europeans, Palestinians or arabs not taken the actions they did we also wouldn't have this discussion.

The Palestinians and Arabs were only acting in response to the Jews.

Originally posted by G-Man
Jews didn't come into a Palestinian country, they came into a Turkish territory not demanded by anyone else at that time.

What? So you're trying to tell me the land was international land...no, it wasn't.

Originally posted by G-Man
Zionism cared a lot about the local population - if you'll read Hertzl's book you mentioned earlier you'd see one of the things he wanted to do was to create an equal society for arabs as well.

I'm not debating his book, rather what actually happened.

Originally posted by G-Man
The answer is limited only by how far back you're willing to go.

You're limited in how far back you can go because after just over a century you hit the reason.

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by phoenix_night


What? So you're trying to tell me the land was international land...no, it wasn't.

I don't follow your logic. The Arabs took the land from the Byzantines (Romans) who took it from the Israelites.

How is that more legal that the Jews taking the land from the Ottomans who took if from the Arabs?

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by phoenix_night
The Palestinians and Arabs were only acting in response to the Jews.

The jews were only acting in response to the europeans.

What? So you're trying to tell me the land was international land...no, it wasn't.

It wasn't international, it was Turkish.

I'm not debating his book, rather what actually happened.

What actually happened? What happened is that arab Israelis are full citizens and enjoy more rights than in any arab country (except Iraq, but that's just because they don't have a police )

You're limited in how far back you can go because after just over a century you hit the reason.

Why? What makes zionism the reason? Why do you stop at it?

 

[Fëanor]

Originally posted by Benderino


Oh, because losing half of the race is 'ok' ?

of course not , but its not like israel is the last stand for the Jews , and without it you face extinction. you say that the arabs just want to kill you , how comes then that there are jewish comunities in almost any arab country , even afghanistan?

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by phoenix_night


@Benderino,
Coming from Israel does leave an opportunity for biased comments.

Then what's the point of witnesses?

And coming from Europe "does leave an opportunity for biased comments", IMO, since Europe's history doesn't favor the Jews much.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Fëanor
of course not , but its not like israel is the last stand for the Jews , and without it you face extinction. you say that the arabs just want to kill you , how comes then that there are jewish comunities in almost any arab country , even afghanistan?

There are 2 jews in Afghanistan, and they don't talk to each other for over a decade! You call that a community?

BTW Afghanistan isn't even arab

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by Fëanor


of course not , but its not like israel is the last stand for the Jews , and without it you face extinction. you say that the arabs just want to kill you , how comes then that there are jewish comunities in almost any arab country , even afghanistan?

Those communites were 50 times larger until they were kicked out. Or when the Jews realized how cruel the conditions of living were in those countries for Jews. In every Muslim country (except Turkey and Morocco) Jews are dicriminated against not only by law, but by action. Why is this excusable?

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by Fëanor


becouse it irritates me that people try to paint one side Good and the other as evil , i just want to poin out that israel in his own way is as guilty as the palestinians are in this bloody mess.

You seem to be doing this, you know?

I never said, (this is the 4th time now) that one side was 100% right and the other 100% wrong. find it when I said that.

I agree, it is a bad thing when innocents die on both sides, that needs to stop.

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by phoenix_night


What on earth does that have to do with it?

I guess you can't remember the conversation you had with G-Man on this a while back on an earlier page. Right before you left, he said that Anti-Semitism was the cause of Zionism. So one can infer locically that without anti-Semitism there would be no Zionism.

 

[nivi]

Originally posted by Fëanor


you say that the arabs just want to kill you , how comes then that there are jewish comunities in almost any arab country , even afghanistan?

There were so many wars started by the arabs against israel that's it's preey obvious they utleast wanted (i can't realy say for sure egypt want's us out of here) to drive us to the sea.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Benderino
Those communites were 50 times larger until they were kicked out. Or when the Jews realized how cruel the conditions of living were in those countries for Jews.

Actually the difference is much greater than 50 times. For example: Iraq had a jewish population of 130,000 people. Now they have less than 30 people.

 

[phoenix_night]

I am not stating there is no history to the conflict before Zionism!

What I am stating is the reason for the current tensions and the modern day conflict!

If there were no history before Zionism then I would have no trouble in supporting the most extreme Palestinian (in theory). But that is not the case, that's why as I have said, I find it impossible to give full support to either side.

But why did this current conflict get going?

Zionism.

 

[Fëanor]

Originally posted by Benderino


Those communites were 50 times larger until they were kicked out. Or when the Jews realized how cruel the conditions of living were in those countries for Jews. In every Muslim country (except Turkey and Morocco) Jews are dicriminated against not only by law, but by action. Why is this excusable?

its not excusable in the western world , but israel is in the middle east were its almost not acceptable to do otherwise.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by phoenix_night
I am not stating there is no history to the conflict before Zionism!

What I am stating is the reason for the current tensions and the modern day conflict!

If there were no history before Zionism then I would have no trouble in supporting the most extreme Palestinian (in theory). But that is not the case, that's why as I have said, I find it impossible to give full support to either side.

But why did this current conflict get going?

Zionism.

But why? History is a flow of things. What makes you think Zionism is the reason for this current conflict?

 

[Fëanor]

Originally posted by Benderino


You seem to be doing this, you know?

I never said, (this is the 4th time now) that one side was 100% right and the other 100% wrong. find it when I said that.

I agree, it is a bad thing when innocents die on both sides, that needs to stop.

u did not , but other did , and do every time the post something.

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by Benderino
I guess you can't remember the conversation you had with G-Man on this a while back on an earlier page. Right before you left, he said that Anti-Semitism was the cause of Zionism. So one can infer locically that without anti-Semitism there would be no Zionism.

Did you just decide not to read the next line of my post?

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
But why? History is a flow of things. What makes you think Zionism is the reason for this current conflict?

Yes history flows, that's why it's impossible for me to say, "x is right".

But in what I am currently saying I do not attempt to invalidate any Israeli claims to...anything!

What I am saying is at the the root of the current problem that we see now (concerning Israel of course, not simply the middle east) are the Zionists.

Edit:

Posts: 1000

 

[Fëanor]

Originally posted by nivi


There were so many wars started by the arabs against israel that's it's preey obvious they utleast wanted (i can't realy say for sure egypt want's us out of here) to drive us to the sea.

they dont want that jews control lands holy to them (as they are for cristians and jews), that they controlled(some times indirectly) for the past ..... 1000-1500 years