Shoshone civilization, leader Pocatello

[truenarnian]

I have to say how happy I am that the Shoshone are included (I wanted another N.Am. nation), but how disappointed I am about the choices for unique mechanics. The Pathfinder is excellent, and the other two, very dull. These mechanics seem like something we should have seen in vanilla or G&K, not an expansion with the theme and mechanics of BNW.

But the *real* reason I'm so bothered by it is that if the civ plays as insipidly as I imagine it will, a lot of people already opposed to the inclusion of more than one N.Am. aboriginal civ will use this as an excuse to complain even more about N.Am. aboriginal inclusion in the future.

I want *more* First Nations, not less. I feel like they kind of backhanded the Shoshone to a certain extent. I'm going to play them a lot, but do the rest of you feel the same way?

 

[Snonolio]

I am incredibly excited about the Shoshone. Not only are they from my part of the world, (I'm originally from Montana, but now live in Utah) but they suit my playstyle perfectly. I tend to space my cities a little further apart based on luxury resources, which makes the extra tiles huge for me. I love the scout bonuses. All in all, a worthy civ and on that I will enjoy playing.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I am incredibly excited about the Shoshone. Not only are they from my part of the world, (I'm originally from Montana, but now live in Utah) but they suit my playstyle perfectly. I tend to space my cities a little further apart based on luxury resources, which makes the extra tiles huge for me. I love the scout bonuses. All in all, a worthy civ and on that I will enjoy playing.

This.

I'm from Wyoming originally. I'm excited to see the Shoshone, although I would've preferred a less stereotypical Native American civ. I'm just glad it's not the most stereotypical, the Sioux.

A nod to the Comanche really clinches it for me, although I think the Comanche would have been able to stand on their own merits.

 

[Ikael]

Hmmm, opinions!

UA: It seems poised to be a quite interesting civ to play on the early game, only to become blander as the game progresses as everyone's borders expands and everyone gets defensive bonuses to their terrains trought SP and wonders as well :/

UU 1 (Comanche calvary): Yet another calvary UU? Seriously? *sigh* well, at least it is very historically accurate, perhaps it has some truthly unique promotion to make them distinct enough a la double strike or something along these lines

UU 2 (Pathfinder): Is this the coolest, raddest UU ever or what? Love, LOVE what Firaxis did with this one <3<3<3 a scout UU with great rewards for exploration not only is incredibly original, but it sounds FUN to play and it seems to reflect very well how much vital scouting and terrain familiarity was for these type of civs, bravo!

 

[seancolorado]

This.

I'm from Wyoming originally. I'm excited to see the Shoshone, although I would've preferred a less stereotypical Native American civ. I'm just glad it's not the most stereotypical, the Sioux.

A nod to the Comanche really clinches it for me, although I think the Comanche would have been able to stand on their own merits.

Indeed, but they culturally overlap in certain regards that it's actually a good decision by the devs to tie them together - you know, Polynesia best of both worlds theory

And look how many Americans have already come out in support of this. From Wyoming to Texas, it already seems like a popular decision and one that represents a massive region

 

[cpm4001]

One thing I observed is that the Comanche Rider can apparently be purchased with faith, despite being an Industrial-era unit as a replacement for the Cavalry. Now, this means either a) that the Holy Warriors belief has been changed to allow for the purchase of later-era units; b) that this is a semi-unique feature of this unit; or c) that the Civilopedia page is incomplete and I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Sikandar]

This is exactly what I would expect a Plains civilization to be like.

Looks fun.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

One thing I observed is that the Comanche Rider can apparently be purchased with faith, despite being an Industrial-era unit as a replacement for the Cavalry. Now, this means either a) that the Holy Warriors belief has been changed to allow for the purchase of later-era units; b) that this is a semi-unique feature of this unit; or c) that the Civilopedia page is incomplete and I don't know what I'm talking about.

SInce G&K, all Civilopedia pages show the cost in hammers and Faith.

 

[MadDjinn]

So wait this means the Comanche Riders are way better than the German Panzer, aren't they?
The Rider can practically be upgraded into a Panzer, but the Panzer loses his movement bonus on upgrade.

The Panzer has a combat strength higher than the basic tank, so no the Comanche rider turned tank won't be better than the Panzer.

 

[JSMCAG]

I have to say, they look really interesting!

Their UA seems rather meh - can certainly be useful, but it is certainly not on the level of Poland, for example. EDIT: I forgot about the combat bonus in friendly territory. Free Himeji Castle? Yes Please! This civilization with the Himeji Castle is going to be a beast to destroy! Add The Great Wall, and they're pretty much indestructible...
Where this Civilization seems to shine is on their Pathfinder. Oh, wow, this unit looks super strong! Strong as a Warrior, super cheap to build, can ignore terrain cost, and can choose the bonus gained from Ancient Ruins! I can see lots of strategy discussion on which choices are the best (pro tip: not the map one! ). Heck, we're seeing some of that already - some pointing out that free Techs every time will be extremely powerful, others wanting to go for faith or population. Personally, since this ability is a promotion, I think choosing an upgrade first can mean you will be able to bring the Pathfider along with you for the rest of the game (Pathfinder Bazooka, weee!), and can still remain with his special abilities!
If not anything else, then seeing the discussion on this will certainly make this Civilization's inclusion interesting!

The Comanche Rider seems a bit of an odd choice... I would prefer a Comanche civilization, and another unique for the Shoshone... Then again, I would prefer if they gave North America the same attention they give Europe (I would love one day to see various North American civs in one game - it's a shame we can't have 100 civilizations or so, though...).

About the color scheme, I'm... unconvinced. It's certainly not as bad as Morocco (or god-forbid, the Confederacy), but I dunno...

Finally, why Pocatello? Certainly happy it's not Sacajawea, but I really never heard of Pocatello (nor the Shoshone, really) before this... Is he a good choice?

 

[Gali]

The Comanche Rider will probably be almost as good on defense as the Panzer. It will benefit from the Shosone UA's bonus to fighting in your territory. Add in the Berber Cavalry and this expansion loves giving units that upgrade to nasty defensive armor.

With the Hussar and Cossack also being good upgrades, the Panzer is just becoming less and less special.

 

[Optional]

UU 2 (Pathfinder): Is this the coolest, raddest UU ever or what? Love, LOVE what Firaxis did with this one <3<3<3 a scout UU with great rewards for exploration not only is incredibly original, but it sounds FUN to play and it seems to reflect very well how much vital scouting and terrain familiarity was for these type of civs, bravo!

Firaxis does have a hand of giving a scout replacement to an ancient American civ, the 'choose your rewards from a ruin' promotion seems original to me. Not too strong on most maps if you still need to fight 2 melee battles first before this option becomes available.
The pain of this unit is of course that it's a scout, so it doesn't upgrade to anything.
EDIT; well, that might become a tough choice between upgrading the unit to an archer, so that it's useful for longer, or other choices.

 

[DemonMaster]

Firaxis does have a hand of giving a scout replacement to an ancient American civ, the 'choose your rewards from a ruin' promotion seems original to me. Not too strong on most maps if you still need to fight 2 melee battles first before this option becomes available.
The pain of this unit is of course that it's a scout, so it doesn't upgrade to anything.

Except if you choose to find weapons in one of the goody huts, he become a scout-archer

 

[seancolorado]

Quite curious as to what the city list for Shoshone will be

 

[cpm4001]

SInce G&K, all Civilopedia pages show the cost in hammers and Faith.

Yes, that's true for Ancient to Renaissance era land units (the ones that can, as of Gods and Kings, be purchased under the Holy Warriors belief), but as of now faith cost isn't shown for Industrial era and later land units. And according to the pasted-together Tech Tree we have, Cavalry are still in the Industrial Era.

 

[Inhalaattori]

SInce G&K, all Civilopedia pages show the cost in hammers and Faith.

No they dont. They just show cost in faith if the unit is pre-industrial. So they have changed something or it is a mistake. I also dont know why the faith price is not simply double the hammer cost like with all other units.

 

[ldvhl]

I don't know if they're going to use band names, or current res settlements, but they do have a few options.

 

[Biologist]

I'm inclined to raise an eyebrow at this leak/reveal. Much of the Civilopedia information for Pocatello seems to have come from the rather sparse Wikipedia page on the subject (although not as seemingly blatantly as Enrico Dandolo's entry). Putting the two sources of information together, it looks like Pocatello's most notable life events were to attack settlers, retreat from the US military, sign a treaty, and convert to Mormonism. Not really an inspiring leader (granted, the Civilopedia/Wikipedia entries are not hugely informative). Also, as with the Venice entries some of the wording used seems unprofessional (not that unprofessional wording is new to the Civilopedia).

As for the proposed mechanics:

- Unique Ability - Founded cities start with additional territory. Units receive a combat bonus when fighting in friendly territory.

This is rather bland. Not necessarily bad, but bland. It also seems to resemble the Iroquois UA rather closely (bonuses in own terrain).

- Unique Unit - Pathfinder; Replaces Scout (yey?) It has 8 combat, costs 30 p, allows you to choose ancient ruin bonus (really curious to see this)

If people complain about Spain being a "dice roll" civ, they should definitely complain about this being a "dice roll" unit. The extra hp is a straightforward bonus. I guess it might help with surviving barb ambushes or doing some crazy scout rush. The "choose ruin bonus" is either insanely good or useless. Find 3-4 ruins? You can grab a religion or a pile of tech, gold, culture. No ruins wasted on worthless maps of areas you've already seen, or pointless barb camp reveals. Find 1-2 ruins? Still helpful, though not as game-breaking. Find 0 ruins? Tough luck mate, try again next time.

UU - Comanche Riders; Replaces Cavalry. 134 p, it seems to have 4 movement like Cavalry but has an ability that gives +1 movement, the explanation says they have quick attacks.

No strong opinion on this, especially with the somewhat vague nature of the description. Not terribly excited about another horse unit, but at least cavalry replacements give one a reason to actually use horses (I rarely make more than 1-2 mounted units per game unless playing with a mounted UU).

 

[phaethon16]

Like many people have probably said, the Pathfinder is really cool but overall it's not a terribly interesting civ. These last two releases in general have been a little disappointing.

 

[EvenStranger]

Sounds really cool to me. Sure, it won't be a wildly divergent Civ by late game, but sometimes America-style Civs ( strong opening, normal most of game ) are what I'm in the mood for. Not every Civ can be weird or we couldn't define normal

I think we need some "ballast" civilizations which are closer to a vanilla playstyle. Hell, America volunteered to be one ourselves so it's not like I'm being a hypocrite here