Shoshone

[SpecifiedUsername]

Actually, I think Shoshone fix is quite simple. That is if we don't talk about weak, boring encampment and ability that relies on ruins when many people play without them.

It's just to move Comanche Raider to Metallurgy or even Gunpowder (that would be amazing) as a powerful lancer replacement who needs horses but for example shoots before melee. This enables weak Shoshone to at least have a powerspike at a good time which can make them potent authority or progress faction.

To be honest extra territory is actually the best of their kit at the moment IMHO when going progress with them. As you said, yu can get the same ruins reward as any faction, you are just choosing order. And they don't have any bonus in getting ruins and are weak in getting ruins compared to America (+1 sight, mega powerful with ruins) and Polynesia, or even Denmark.

 

[rkkn]

I find the ruins to be quite reliable and strong for the shoshone. I always pick view maps for first ruin, as this gets me 3 promotions immediately (and helps me better decide where to search), and take trailblazer into +sight. and then I pick upgrade to scout with the 2nd ruin. this gives me even more sight and immunity to barbarians. Now with the increased mobility and vision I can grab tons of ruins.

PLUS another thing is that I do not have to worry about building a shine or trying to build stonehenge, as I can reliably get the pantheon from ruins. This is a pretty big advantage. Get a pantheon faster than someone who builds shrine first and even faster than someone who builds stonehenge, all without investing any production into faith.
starting with turn 20, ruins can grant enough faith for a pantheon

 

[SpecifiedUsername]

You can get map ruin pretty reliably as any civ. The same with a faith ruin. I habitually get a pantheon from ruins, then get at least 135 faith ruin once or twice every game with any civ. If you go straigth for fishing for your lux, it helps immensely with ruins.

 

[Workerspam]

I started VP recently and only play random leaders. Shoshone is the worst nation I've seen thusfar, and the first that I've genuinely been confused as to the intent behind, minus "not diplomacy."

The UA is just kind of mediocre. It lets you take less lucrative but more defensible positions and get better yields out of them early, and it lets you zone your neighbors - both useful but way more niche than other civs' abilities. The defensive combat bonus is a nice little boost, but if you're in a position where it makes or breaks the game, I'd argue you've already lost and you just don't know it yet. Finally, despite granting you control over ruin RNG, ruins even appearing are still at the mercy of the RNG and AI. Plus the fact that the ruin ability is really more about selecting the order of bonuses you'll get, not which bonus you get. Obviously picking a tech every time would be broken, as would rushing an Explorer (or even further), but I'm not convinced the other options - yes, even population - would be game-breaking given what the other civs can do.

The UI is fun - encampment "pillboxes" across the plains is neat, but the yields can make some otherwise terrible tiles very appealing... for a little while. They don't have nearly enough staying power unless you're going for a culture victory.

And then there's the real stinker, the Commanche. These poor guys show up way too late to contribute to or counter a domination strategy, and in their own way are a little microcosm of Shoshone mediocrity. They suffer the same problems as all cavalry: anything but a smooth surface and they grind to a halt just to be wrecked by the ranged units they're theoretically supposed to counter. Their only reliable use-case is a defensive war near the Shoshone's capitol, thanks to their plains preference.

They're also spread thinner than usual at the worst possible time to be spread thinner than usual: Ancient. You need to be cranking out settlers to zone off your opponents and later provoke defensive war. You also need to be cranking out Workers to get those encampments up so you can effectively defend against Ancient rush civs, but also be cranking out military to escort Settlers and provide ZOC on those encampments. That's a lot of production to ask from a Plains bias, and you still need to pray you find enough ruins to drive your Faith, Culture, Science, Gold, and arguably even Population (Settler Stagnation stings a little worse when you have all those tiles available) since you won't be getting infrastructure anytime soon.

idk, they seem genuinely terrible with one of the most tedious routes to victory I've seen yet.

I've always found Shoshone to be one of the most robust civs to play. This may come down to playstyle; I tend to go wide and peaceful and the Shoshone are well suited toward this end.

I play King/Emperor so it's possible this strategy does not hold up at higher difficulties but the steps I've found successful are: Initial build is pathfinder. First ruins will be Production (if found within first 1-3 turns) or gold (to buy another Pathfinder); only exception is I'll go for the map if I know I can grab another ruin quickly. I'll aim for 3 Pathfinders to start unless I discover the map is restrictive early. Policy tree is Progress; opener, 3 production, 3 gold/free worker, 3 food/science; this will solve the early issues of Shoshone (gold/science) and allow you to get build Encampments faster, which will take care of your culture . Ruin priority is Production (first 1-15 turns or so, then not worth it), Gold (to rush Shrines/Monuments/Workers), Technology (Techs and culture through Progress), and Population (work tiles, pump out settlers, science through Progress); Faith if I find enough ruins. Build priority is Shrines/Monuments/Workers/Settlers/Military; Wells if I need the production boost and Councils if I go for Ancestor Worship pantheon. Grab all the best spots; settle in the best plot knowing all you will grab all the resources you need nearby. Fishing by third technology (Progress opener will usually complete the tech for me), then rush Military Theory to start building encampments. Encampments will be the best early tiles to work outside of some pantheon boosted tiles.

Challenges for this strategy are early happiness, as your cities will grow fast, and science, since you will be going wide and ignoring infrastructure initially, but I've found you can catch up in science with your powerful cities. I've normally gotten Culture victories (quickest route to victory and Shoshone are well suited) but Science and Diplomacy are also available. I never go Domination so can't offer an opinion on that route.

I just started a game as Shoshone on Emperor to see if anything had changed and, despite a poor start (mountain/hill/tundra start; only 7 Encampments locations in my first 5 cities; only 2 ruins available before I needed Fishing, 6 ruins overall) I'm entering Renaissance middle in score and #1 or 2 in population, GNP, and production. Based on where I'm sitting at this stage of the game I expect I will win; the only real threat is a runaway Ethiopia on the other side of the world (they entered Renaissance before I entered Medieval but I'm steadily catching up).

 

[pineappledan]

IMO. Shoshone should get the free tiles on conquest off Rome. Makes good sense to give them both the tile on settle and conqueest triggers together. They feel like two halves of a whole.
The defense bonus should be increased to 20%, so that it is at least a little stronger than Himeji Castle World Wonder.

The Encampment needs at least 1 other yield from tech bonus. It currently has 2 techs that boost yields and it unlocks in ancient. Other ancient unique improvements like the Mayan Kuna and the Polynesian Moai have 4.

The early unlock on the Comanche is a dud. It should be rolled back. We need that yield on pillage. An early unlock is pointless on a unit that feels like it has no point. Giving them yields on pillage will give you a reason to do something with them.