Should Hitler be in the game?

[gianluca790]

I understand putting Auguste Pinochet and Ferdinand Marcos in there, but someone forgot to include Juan Peron, who was the Ferdinand Marcos of Argentina, with a wife, Evita, who was the Imelda Marcos of Argentina.

 

[gianluca790]

Who says Hitler is the Anti-Christ? t_T I fail to see how religion is relevant to this discussion.

Most people call someone who they disagree with the Antichrist, when all else fails, such as logic and reason. It proves the fact that mankind's mental constructs, no matter how logically stable on the surface, are still built on ideological quicksand with a core of linguistic sophistry at their base, which no one likes to have questioned, because we are defined by the originality of our thoughts and ideas, a fact that has to do with the development of our brains and culture within more primitive times, epochs and cultural milieus.

 

[gianluca790]

The problem with charlemagne is that he was neither a german, nor a french leader - he was a king of the frankish empire. It emerged into France and Germany, roughly described. If you take him as german leader, the French are disappointed, and the Germans are disappointed, if you take him as french leader.

How about Vercingetorix, Chief of the Gauls, enemy of Ceasar, for the French? Weren't the Gauls the ancestors of the French Franks, or was that the Celts? How about William the Conqueror, leader of the Normans? I think that they were both a branch of the Celtic people, just like the Irish, British, Welsh and Scots.

 

[Bastian-Bux]

Gauls = Celts
Franks = Germanians

France = celtic-roman bastards (the gallo-roman culture, and bastard in its original meaning, not the derrogative one) conquered by germanians (the franks) and becoming independent when the frankonian empire split into east (todays Germany), west (todays France) and central (todays... well Burgund ceased to exist, and was incorporated into France, Germany and the benelux countries) parts.

Germany = germanians that got only marginaly cultured by the romans, united by the frankonians, becoming "independent when... you know the time. Later add some slavic "subjects" in the eastern parts.

Thats also the reason why Charles the Great / Charelemagne / Karl der Große can't be added for either France or Germany. Both nations could claim him with equal rights.

 

[Peck of Arabia]

Wow, considering I just skipped 18 pages this topic certinaly has digressed- one minute yet another "Hitler blah, blah ,blah lets have a poll" into What of argintinia and the origins of the German and French nations...

 

[Grohan]

Hitler just ruined Germany. He started WW2, lost it and Germany got separated.

Of course he had significant impact on history and did some good things too but it doesn't meant he should be in the game.

 

[Bastian-Bux]

Another question. IIRC Hatshepsut will be replaced in the addon. So who will replace her? Cleopatra (an unimportant figurehead)? Or Ramses II? But wait, wasn't Ramses II trying the very same as Hitler did? You might remember this whole, frog, bloody-river, dead firstborn story...

So the question is: does a genocide prevent "great leaders" to be used in Civ 4? If yes, we would have to see several leaderheads roll. Even though most where less "industrious" with it then Hitler.

 

[Clownfish]

Voted #3. It would just feel odd to arrange friendly trade with Hitler. I don't think the (western) world is ready for a multi-expressioned cartoon of Hitler in a game. And he can't be said to be a representative for a civilization, really...

 

[Depravo]

Most people call someone who they disagree with the Antichrist, when all else fails, such as logic and reason. It proves the fact that mankind's mental constructs, no matter how logically stable on the surface, are still built on ideological quicksand with a core of linguistic sophistry at their base, which no one likes to have questioned, because we are defined by the originality of our thoughts and ideas, a fact that has to do with the development of our brains and culture within more primitive times, epochs and cultural milieus.

Whathesaid.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

I'd love to see Hitler in Civ IV if only for all the ironic humour you'd get out of him, like founding Judaism or something. Voted number two because he was one of the most famous leaders of the 20th century, even if his third reich did crumble to the ground in a spectacular fashion.

 

[Silver Marmot]

He shouldn't be in this game because his presence would make the game illegal in many countries, such as Germany.

 

[necrolyte]

Another question. IIRC Hatshepsut will be replaced in the addon. So who will replace her? Cleopatra (an unimportant figurehead)? Or Ramses II? But wait, wasn't Ramses II trying the very same as Hitler did? You might remember this whole, frog, bloody-river, dead firstborn story...

So the question is: does a genocide prevent "great leaders" to be used in Civ 4? If yes, we would have to see several leaderheads roll. Even though most where less "industrious" with it then Hitler.

Hatsepshut is not getting replaced by Ramses II, and there is no evidence outside the Bible nor was there reason to believe that Jews ever were enslaved by Egypt, escaped in droves, or that the coming of the sea wiped out large numbers of Egyptians. A better example would be Isabella who wiped out Jews and Muslims, Mao who killed millions, and so on.

Hitler's not in the game for both legal reasons, and because he was an absolutely atrociously bad leader after 1940. It would be like making Dan Quayle or Saddam a leader.

 

[Sohan]

At this point I don't care if he's in the game or not. I don't think he should be, 'cause he honestly doesn't deserve it like Stalin does (victory and long-term power for one's civilization mean a lot), and because it's too risky. I'd rather avoid legal problems and loss of money thank you very much. Anywho...

I'm perfectly fine with including Hitler in a mod though. That would be acceptable. Hitler could use the Charismatic and Aggressive trait. The ultimate warmonger!

 

[Syntherio]

He shouldn't be in this game because his presence would make the game illegal in many countries, such as Germany.

No, it won´t! Will you guys ever learn it?

 

[Sohan]

No, it won´t! Will you guys ever learn it?

Nope. We'll never learn.

 

[Shylock]

It would probably get the game banned in Germany (pause for irony), so from a marketing perspective it is a bad move.

Besides, Hitler, especially in the latter years of the war, decieded he should run the military show personally, that's why you got the Ardennes Offensive and the Allied victory at Normandy.

 

[- Praetorian -]

Of course Hitler should be in the game! There are other tyrants that have been included in the game. This is not politics, it is a game! He did have a big impact on civilisation in general. In fact one can tell of a period before Hitler and one after him.

I definetely think he should be included. Besides I cannot understand why we should try to erase part of the history of civilisation. Bad things happened, but they did happen. It is life.

If this issue is sensitive in some countries they could add an option in the game to disable him although frankly it seems pointless to me. Apart from that I believe he was the German leader in the original Civilisation. Correct me if I am wrong?

 

[Bastian-Bux]

correcting you Praetorian ^^. It was Friedrich II even in Civ I iirc.

 

[Red Door]

The reason most people on this forum use to include him is that there are other tyrants in the game. Do 2 wrongs make a right?

Until I see actual reasoning to include Hitler, I stand by Firaxis.

 

[- Praetorian -]

The reason most people on this forum use to include him is that there are other tyrants in the game. Do 2 wrongs make a right?

Until I see actual reasoning to include Hitler, I stand by Firaxis.

Hitler is the most famous leader Germany has every had. Maybe they do not like it because he did evil things, but that is history, part of their history. It is no use ignoring that or trying to erase something from history. You cannot have Germany without Hitler as its leader. It just does not make sense. And once again they could add an option to disable him for whoever feels offended by Hitler. No one has convinced me yet that there should not be Hitler in Civilisation...