Should Internal Trade Routes Drain Resources from Origin City?

[Louis XXIV]

What reason do we have for believing there's "no longer gold on the map"? We know river tiles don't produce gold, but that's not a major income earner. There are still luxury resources (and undoubtedly still mints), and roads have been spotted with the trade route symbol, suggesting that you still get gold for having roads between cities.

In fact, we have seen that you still get gold from luxuries on the map. But that's still less common than all river tiles and sea tiles.

 

[Gamewizard]

We know river tiles don't produce gold, but that's not a major income earner.

A little off topic, but we must be playing different games, because riverside farms provide a big portion of my early gpt, especially when you hit a golden age.

 

[SamBC]

A little off topic, but we must be playing different games, because riverside farms provide a big portion of my early gpt, especially when you hit a golden age.

This is about BNW, for which it has been announced that rivers no longer give gold.

 

[Seek]

Really? You don't think that in order to TRADE luxuries that you would have to establish a TRADE route? I know they haven't yet described it as working this way, but still being able to trade luxuries as soon as you meet a Civ would just seem silly now that we have international trade routes back.

Like I said, I would welcome this change (as well as making trade proposals take at least one turn for a response both for realism and to prevent "shopping around" with every civ on the planet for the best deal) but I don't think the devs share our philosophy on this.

In fact, we have seen that you still get gold from luxuries on the map. But that's still less common than all river tiles and sea tiles.

Even after G&K, luxury tiles are rarely worked though. I think it will be much more common after BNW - there's a fair amount of gold to be had from improved luxes!

This is about BNW, for which it has been announced that rivers no longer give gold.

I think GameWizard was taking issue with PhilBowles' comment that riverside gold is "not a major income earner". I agree with Wizard that it is for many people, especially puppet empires.

Keep in mind, everyone, that they have only said they are removing "free" riverside gold, so there may be a new building adding it back (like the hydro plant adds riverside production)!

 

[Gucumatz]

Look at the Gamehub video and see how Lisbon has the potential to give a boost of either 9 food or 9 production to another city. That's frankly insane. Even with the 14-19 gold per turn (and then only 2-6 on the return trip) that Portugal gets with its UA boost, why would you want to use international trade routes?

Domestic trade routes seem to be too powerful. Production/Food >> Gold. +9 food is better than the Hanging Gardens. If you can find a way to survive using other sources of gold (which humans can do pretty easy, see deity) why would you not take the food/production?

It needs to be tweaked so maybe 50% of the food/production is taken from the host city so there is some trade off at least. Otherwise there is simply no reason to take international routes

 

[Deggial]

It needs to be tweaked so maybe 50% of the food/production is taken from the host city so there is some trade off at least. Otherwise there is simply no reason to take international routes

If the rumor of the disappeared trading posts is true, things might look different. (By the way: I don't believe it right now.)

 

[Gucumatz]

Even then, many players who know what they are doing can survive without building a single trade post on Deity. Many games I know I don't (On Deity). They can be useful sure, but its certainly not hard to survive without them just takes some figuring out

 

[whyidie]

I'd much prefer internal trade routes did take into account the cities food/production capabilities. I would struggle with a high production/low food city being able to send the same amount of food as a high food/low production city.

In addition, if I am "sending" resources to a city, it should be taken from the provider city. The providing city should see some effect to their food or production capabilities.

If I'm not sending resources and we have some sort of knowledge trading (I'm not sure which approach they're going with), then both cities should benefit and the benefits should be scaled. Something similar to the RA mechanic.

 

[Babri]

Look at the Gamehub video and see how Lisbon has the potential to give a boost of either 9 food or 9 production to another city. That's frankly insane. Even with the 14-19 gold per turn (and then only 2-6 on the return trip) that Portugal gets with its UA boost, why would you want to use international trade routes?

Domestic trade routes seem to be too powerful. Production/Food >> Gold. +9 food is better than the Hanging Gardens. If you can find a way to survive using other sources of gold (which humans can do pretty easy, see deity) why would you not take the food/production?

It needs to be tweaked so maybe 50% of the food/production is taken from the host city so there is some trade off at least. Otherwise there is simply no reason to take international routes

I think you are judging the trade mechanics by G&K rules which is wrong. Considering the changes to different aspects like tile yields, gold will become truely precious. And you might struggle to keep a very high GPT. 9 production would mean that you are loosing an opportunity of equivalent amount of gold which might send you in red GPT earlier on. Keep in mind that negative gold can result in slower research & disbanding units. So you will probably try to have more international routes to support your empire expenditures & few internal ones to reinforce your city capabilities.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gucumatz]

They have already said most of the mechanics will remain the same. As is people milk the AI for everything they are worth. 9 Production > 27 gold per turn in weighed measurements. Compare that with the gold per turn for Lisbon and that's with the double bonus. You only get 19 gold per turn and only 2-6 gold per turn on the return leg. Absolutely no reason to use international routes from what I have seen at the minute. You may use one if you are still a player who doesn't know how to manage gold well yet, but certainly why wouldn't you use free food/production.

I have a feeling like Maritime CSes when Vanilla first came out, this will have to be nerfed just as drastically.

 

[Seek]

Even with the 14-19 gold per turn (and then only 2-6 on the return trip) that Portugal gets with its UA boost, why would you want to use international trade routes?

I think you misread the tooltip - the arrows show what the host civ gets vs what the recipient civ gets. In the Gamerhub video at :55 the options between sending the cargo ship to Salvador results in Portugal getting 14 gold and 10 religious pressure (left-pointing arrow = income for Lisbon) while Assyria gets 2 gold, 3 science and 10 rel pressure (right-pointing arrow = income for Salvador). I hope that was a clear explanation.