Should Joe Harker's keshik move be made mandatory?

[donsig]

Should Joe Harker's keshik move be made mandatory?

Yes
No
Other (such as I object to this poll)
Abstain

This is a private poll.

This poll will be open for two days.

Please see the judiciary thread for discussion.

It appears our DP opened the save and moved one of our units but did not then save the game. He posted information about it which has since been removed by a moderator. It is a matter of rule in the GOTMs and HoF games that this sort of thing is not allowed. It has also been an honorable tradition in the democracy games since their inception a few years ago. Methos asked the judicary to enforce the move:

I therefore bring it before the courts the request, that the move that Joe Harker made with the Keshik be made mandatory as his first move when playing his turnchat. This will make it so that any information we have already learned not contaminate the game any further, as it appears it already has.

But the judicary has opted not to do this since it would run counter to the now infamous kill the longbow poll. The judicary's reasoning is suspect but I can find no legal grounds to overturn their ruling. (The constitution is mute on this.)

So I am posting this poll in the hope that citizens will speak out and vote to do the honorable thing and live with our DP's keshik move.

 

[Methos]

After all the arguments, discussion, realization of different aspects of keshik moves and attacks, I realize my request to the courts actually puts us in a worst position. I also realize that the original information was in fact correct and the "contaminating" information was, or is not correct. After all, if my request were granted by the courts, we would now have even less of a chance surviving the battle and would definitely be suiciding our keshik. The courts ruling actually puts us better off than had they agreed to my request.

Having said that, I still believe in the integrity of this game and feel we should continue on from Joe's move. It doesn't matter that it'll put us in a worst position, we must abide by the rules. Therefore, my vote is Yes, it should be mandatory.

 

[Hyronymus]

This entire Longbow discussion is getting way out of hand. Not so much by deliberate malpractises but more by overzealous actions from our Warlord, a mistake by our DP and some not satisfying ruling on some poll valadations.

How much I dislike the way things went I suggest we stick to what we initially voted for. That may be ugly after all but it was our first wish, before we knew anything else.

 

[fed1943]

Voted no. Because:
The information disclosed (I didn't read said post) is available to any one that
performs a save opening, look at the map and make the easy calculus (even
I was able to do it).
And read the manual or civilopedia (keshiks enjoy no terrain penalty concerning movement).
So, the bad source information is redundant and already in the game.
No penalty to the team, IMHO.
Best regards,

 

[ori]

The judicary's reasoning is suspect but I can find no legal grounds to overturn their ruling. (The constitution is mute on this.)
So I am posting this poll in the hope that citizens will speak out and vote to do the honorable thing and live with our DP's keshik move.

In fact this is the way to go - since the Constitution does not provide for an appeal against court decisions but says that initiatives (polls) stand above everything the only way to overturn a court decision is by initiative.

Be advised though that this only is true for completed polls. If someone asks the Judiciary to do so I would vote for lifting the current stay on the Turnset only after this poll has ended.

Edit: oh and voted No

 

[DaveShack]

No. Why are people deliberately continuing to discuss this non-event?

 

[Provolution]

LOL, I am not overzealous anymore, I have given up on you guys. Attack the Longbowman, with both keshiks regardless of the odds. We will still win in the long haul, and playing with a handicap is sort of fun.

For the scouting move farther east? Forget about it, just send both boys across the river towards the longbowman, I just tell them someone in NOTA made the decision.

If there is no citizen support for a scouting move, I am not going to go for it.

 

[DaveShack]

LOL, I am not overzealous anymore, I have given up on you guys.

I have no doubt as to the true intent of this poll. A certain individual is hell-bent on making sure another individual doesn't get his way, and is desperately searching for ways to make it happen.

BTW the other individual knows how to play this game too.

If you want a game of civ, vote no. If you want a vote of politics, vote yes, because we can legally keep this up forever if necessary.

 

[Provolution]

I have no doubt as to the true intent of this poll. A certain individual is hell-bent on making sure another individual doesn't get his way, and is desperately searching for ways to make it happen.

BTW the other individual knows how to play this game too.

If you want a game of civ, vote no. If you want a vote of politics, vote yes, because we can legally keep this up forever if necessary.

We are already beyond the point of playing a game of civ now, for this Longbowman thing - we ARE playing a game of politics, the worst kind.

When I saw the 2nd Longbowman came up, I knew it was more political than anything else. I am not voting in this poll and I already written off both my high quality keshiks for future planning purposes, until next turnchat.

I guess we have several sets of hell-bent people throwing sand into each others machinery, and I am out of it. I am happy I barely made us change civics and can lean back on that.

 

[Provolution]

Voted no. Because:
The information disclosed (I didn't read said post) is available to any one that
performs a save opening, look at the map and make the easy calculus (even
I was able to do it).
And read the manual or civilopedia (keshiks enjoy no terrain penalty concerning movement).
So, the bad source information is redundant and already in the game.
No penalty to the team, IMHO.
Best regards,

Dude it is a bug, you get different odds, depending on how close you are to the river prior the assault.
This "Joe Harkers' Keshik" will soon be as famous as "Bram Stokers Dracula".

 

[DaveShack]

You cannot say it is a bug, because you don't know if it was the programmer's intent.

 

[Provolution]

We could ask Firaxis, seriously, we should. From a nature's viewpoint, we both know it is wrong.

 

[Provolution]

I have no doubt as to the true intent of this poll. A certain individual is hell-bent on making sure another individual doesn't get his way, and is desperately searching for ways to make it happen.

BTW the other individual knows how to play this game too.

If you want a game of civ, vote no. If you want a vote of politics, vote yes, because we can legally keep this up forever if necessary.

You mean Donsig and you, or Donsig and Grant?

 

[donsig]

You mean Donsig and you, or Donsig and Grant?

Now I hope DaveShack reads the forum rules before responding to this.

 

[DaveShack]

I wasn't planning to respond -- perhaps you should voice your concern privately.

 

[DaveShack]

Back to this poll's contents...

Are we really going to make the worst possible in-game move because one person broke the DG rules and then a bunch of other people broke the same rules by discussing what the first person wrote?

Or are we going to play a game of civ, and make the correct move for the situation?

If you want to play civ, then vote a resounding no in this poll.

 

[donsig]

Why don't we play a democracy game and let the group decide if the unathorized move should be made or ignored?

Some of us who play civ do not reload when a mistake is make. Ignoring what our DP did is nothing more than reloading because we made a bad move. Reloading is a . Vote yes in this poll, adjust subsequent moves if need be and move on. In any event, let the majority decide.

 

[DaveShack]

It's only "reloading" (to gain advantage) if making that move affects what you would have done. In this case it does not have any such affect. If your child jostles your arm while moving a unit and it lands on the wrong square, do you reload? I do, in that situation.

If you distinguish between deliberate reloading to gain an advantage from reloading to repair an innocent mistake, then vote no.

 

[Provolution]

Back to this poll's contents...

Are we really going to make the worst possible in-game move because one person broke the DG rules and then a bunch of other people broke the same rules by discussing what the first person wrote?

Or are we going to play a game of civ, and make the correct move for the situation?

If you want to play civ, then vote a resounding no in this poll.

It is hardly a correct move. Then again, frankly I do not care about what happens to the keshik now. My hands are clean. If someone wanted to make this a principal, judicial, democratic, political and propaganda crusade, so be it.

Now someone reaps the harvest of what is sown.

The 67 % might be the optimal move, if one is determined attacking the longbow, but the correct move would always be a subjective view.

Yet, now that I am more detached from the fate of the keshik, this is in a bizarre way quite entertaining.

 

[fed1943]

The beauty of the poll game:
Does anyone really knows (other than Joe) if he attacked or just moved the
unit one tile? (Just asking if it is known, nothing more).
Anyway, whatever decision is taken, game is changed, a little bit, but changed.
Best regards,