Should this even be valid? 0-0 override..

[Strider]

Originally posted by Chieftess
Well, I guess my point is (and I didn't seem to make... since apparently I'm pathetic with words), a 0-0 vote is non-existent. How can you have a vote if no one is present? The unique part of this demogame was the turn chat. True, shaitan can't have them at the usual time, so it's at the dead hour... But, the turn chats were where we could have ingame discussions. Sure, one player can play without any input, but this is a game of democracy. If the turn chats are early, let the leaders choose a chat rep that's willing to represent the department vote at that early hour. That's what we did in the first demogame.

The only problem with that is trying to find a rep that can go at that hour. All of the departments can have the same rep. That would mean that the rep has to make decision's for all of the departments, which is far to much power.

The science department normally was their in full force. Both chat reps, leader, deputy etc., but now that the 4 a.m. chats have started. Their has been no partcipation from the Science Department (atleast I don't think any)

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Strider


Eyrei.... If you notice the only other president to get a PI was donsig. That means that Shaitan is doing something wrong.

No, it means that people are more aware of our laws and their right to question the president. Also, those that were opposed to Shaitan's presidency, while obviously in the minority, are very vocal, and seem to leap at every possible chance to attack him.

Every DP has had to make many decisions during the course of their terms. Grey Fox made a huge number of decisions, as our government was still forming. Shaitan is now confronted with the same problem, not because of lack of government, but because the government got too used to making their decisions during the turn chat, and not posting sufficient instructions. This situation is slowly being rectified, but there are certain things that are still not going smoothly.

Finally, in the first demogame, we managed to micromanage almost everything until it got to the point where we were at such an advantage that we could make numerous mistakes and still win. This is not the case anymore...

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by eyrei


No, it means that people are more aware of our laws and their right to question the president. Also, those that were opposed to Shaitan's presidency, while obviously in the minority, are very vocal, and seem to leap at every possible chance to attack him.

Every DP has had to make many decisions during the course of their terms. Grey Fox made a huge number of decisions, as our government was still forming. Shaitan is now confronted with the same problem, not because of lack of government, but because the government got too used to making their decisions during the turn chat, and not posting sufficient instructions. This situation is slowly being rectified, but there are certain things that are still not going smoothly.

Finally, in the first demogame, we managed to micromanage almost everything until it got to the point where we were at such an advantage that we could make numerous mistakes and still win. This is not the case anymore...

Yes, but GF didn't forget to post a poll on what to do with a Great Leader and did not try to break a 0-0 vote. GF made decision's that ran through a spot-vote. Shaitan did the same, but what he did was not a democracy. That's what we have a problem with. Shaitan seems to be trying to become a dictator or king, while the other presidents could care-less.

Shaitan keeps on trying to talk about how they did not trust him for this or that. Seems to me like he thinks he can make all the right decisions. His job is to find what the citizen's want. If they agree on something that he thinks will be a big mistake it's not his job to correct it. His job is to simply play the game and to gather information. Nothing more.

 

[eyrei]

Grey Fox didn't ever use a spot vote, I don't think, because we hadn't developed them yet. He would ask for opinions, and then make his decision.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by eyrei
Grey Fox didn't ever use a spot vote, I don't think, because we hadn't developed them yet. He would ask for opinions, and then make his decision.

I think he did that in Term 1.... Term 2 I believe was when spot votes were developed, but still.... Shaitan did not even ask for someone's opionion. He made the decison by himself.

 

[Furry Spatula]

Ok i have a quick question. Was nobody other than Shaitan at the turn chat? If so why on earth did it continue? Why didn't the turn chat end. I mean it is ludicrous to continue the turn chats just so we can gain pace from out 1 turn turn chats. THe government is not able to act efficiently if only one member is there. And if we still call that a turn chat perhaps we need to commit a person if they are there on their own in the future as they are carrying a conversation on with themselves.

Note: I'm not picking on you shaitan with that last comment. Pretty much nobody is present at the time of a turnchat the chat should be cancelled rather than go on on your own. That should be a general rule or made as one.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Furry Spatula
Ok i have a quick question. Was nobody other than Shaitan at the turn chat? If so why on earth did it continue? Why didn't the turn chat end. I mean it is ludicrous to continue the turn chats just so we can gain pace from out 1 turn turn chats. THe government is not able to act efficiently if only one member is there. And if we still call that a turn chat perhaps we need to commit a person if they are there on their own in the future as they are carrying a conversation on with themselves.

Note: I'm not picking on you shaitan with that last comment. Pretty much nobody is present at the time of a turnchat the chat should be cancelled rather than go on on your own. That should be a general rule or made as one.

I think their was 6 people, but you have to account for the people who go to sleep and just keep everything running... I'd say their was about 3 or 4 active their.... and at the time none of them was very active.

 

[Civanator]

Can't we all just have fun and not bite each other's heads off? this game was made to have fun wasn't it? we elect officials because of their experience and for them to do what they think is right at the moment when no one is there.

 

[Cyc]

Personally, Shaitan's major problem is the wake up call he's using is much too loud for the tender ears of Some of the Fanatikan Public. Because he has set up the t/c's the way he has, it is flagrantly apparent just how non-responsive and sluggish the leadership and general public has become (obviously spoiled by DG1). If we were a good as we claim to be, then all the decisions being FORCED on us would have already been addressed by us. Shaitan wouldn't need to interpret or invent or proclaim or go in any of the "Despotic" directions you claim he does.

Don't like the way the shows going? Re-write the script. Start planning for the future. Discuss a topic until a decisive end has been chosen. Post your Official" decisions. Be BOLD. Learn your job. Write lengthy posts explaining just how you feel. Try a new path. Shall I go on?

If we were doing our jobs correctly, Shaitan wouldn't have the opportunity to step out of line. Get it?

 

[Veera Anlai]

Cyc? Why should he punish me for something when I've done nothing wrong? I'm not a leader, nor even deputy. I've done nothing wrong, and I'm just a humble Fanatikan citizen. I shouldn't have *my* rights diminished because of the mistakes of a few and the self-righteousness of another.

 

[Cyc]

Veera, Shaitan is not punishing you. He is not restricting your rights. My posts was not really directed at you as you are fairly new here. What I was talking about was the inefficiency of the forums to direct our DP in a manner that would preclude any wandering at their level of play. Personally, I would say, for the amount of time that you have been here, you have showed the others how a vocal and concerned citizen of Fanatika should be. I applaud you. But you are one person. The rest of us have been here for many months and have some how let the flag fall to the ground. Someone needs to pick that flag back up and rally us enough to a point where we will even do our jobs. That's what I'm talking about. And you are not being punished. I would not let that happen. I was in major opposition to "closed-door sessions. But there is an underlying theme happening here that is emerging out of the fog. And it is shining its light down upon us all. It's time to wake up.

 

[Civanator]

*lots of applause*

Nice speech Cyc. Cyc has a point. wake up Fanatika, this isn't gravy train.

 

[eyrei]

Excellent points, Cyc. It is good to know that I am not the only one thinking that way.

 

[Octavian X]

I will say that I agree - Shaitan's action was legal.

However, it doesn't sit right with me. I think that his action was unethical. I don't care what kind of decision it was: Good, bad, large, small. I simply won't stand for this.

I simply ask that more input is recieved before making such a decision.

 

[Shaitan]

Okay, folks. Try to put this in perspective. The change made was the temporary queue switch (4 turns) to get a spearman ready for the settler that was almost finished. I may not be omniscient but I knew without a shadow of a doubt that this particular override would be approved by the citizens.

Some common sense and trust has to be used here.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Strider


The only problem with that is trying to find a rep that can go at that hour. All of the departments can have the same rep. That would mean that the rep has to make decision's for all of the departments, which is far to much power.

The science department normally was their in full force. Both chat reps, leader, deputy etc., but now that the 4 a.m. chats have started. Their has been no partcipation from the Science Department (atleast I don't think any)

disorganizer has been at every chat and nobody has made him a chat rep.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I add my voice to those who agree with Cyc's comments.

Further explaination of Shaitan's position can be found in his response to the Public Investigation. I recommend everyone read and understand that point of view. Doesn't mean you have to agree with him at all, just that it is important to know.

Veera, I welcome you and active participation in the game. I observe that Cyc's comments had to do with a long running issue here, and I really doubt he meant them as disparaging toward yourself.

Bill

 

[Shaitan]

I think Veera's doing a great job as well. Interested and interesting to read. She makes herself well informed and makes erudite and on-topic comments. That's exactly the kind of new blood we need!

Plus, she writes up a killer PI.