gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
The New New Testament that will be published for Christ's second coming = Fallout 4?
Should you be afraid of Hell?
- Thread starter Tahuti
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Yes and that's one of the problems of it.
For reasons complex I think that a deity or force is necessary for the universe to be held together on several levels.
However I find the concept of an all loving God and hell to be repulsive and contradictory "contradictions cannot exist in reality in whole or part"
Lohrenswald
世界的 bottom ranked physicist
Isn't that from Terry Goodkinds books?
In which case ppppppppfffffffffffffhhhhhhhhhhttttttt
Also why do you think the universe needs a diety?
There is necessarily no contradiction. Hell may have eternal reality in a sense becouse its part of eternal but its secret purpose isnt eternal torture but rather the opposite - infinit delight. The structure and composition of our existence and this world is such that we move more often by outer force then by our yet very limited will. Suffering and pain are just some of the agents in this complex environment which ensure continuation of dynamic movement necessary for further development and ultimately realisation of the Infinite.
Sooo
God: you WILL learn to love me *hits mortal over the head repeatedly*
So if you repent whilst in Hell it moves to eternal delight?
Is that what you are saying?
Whats wrong with Terry Goodkinds books?
As to why the universe needs a Deity: unity, cohesion, purpose. to explain more and I would be here a while.
Imagine the most loveble thing in existence. Keep it in your mind and heart for couple second. Than try to multiply the joy and trill it gives you by 10, then 100 and then by 1000 and ten by infinite. Congratulations you just went mad with joy. And this is just shadow of what God is. Now tell me you cant take couple slaps and kicks?
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Okay, but that seems to contradict like 90% of the things this entity does in the Old Testament.
Yeeer but we are talking about Hell here....that's an eternity of pain, not slaps and kicks.
I don't think that such a just punishment, I mean take Jimmy Saville for example, if theres a hell he is probably in it. But even he is not worthy of eternity he is meant to have sexually abused over 1000 people, now if we assume that's 50 years of hell average for each one then thats 50 000 years in Hell.
That may sound like a very long length of time, but its not eternal after all the universe is what 14 Billion years old?
I don't think ANYONE warrants 14 Billion years of Hell
One of the greater errors Jesus made was telling us that the OT god was lovable.
People in times of OT were barbaric so was their God and religion. God is everything but he is going to aproach you through the channels you are identified with and understand. Nowdays people reject barbaric religion and barbaric God but they dont entirely reject the barbarism they have within so they are bound to suffer some "kicks and slaps".
Also Hell may be eternal but no one stays there for ever.
Also Hell may be eternal but no one stays there for ever.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
How can a barbaric being be "the most loving being in existence" ?
You have understand its just one side/face of God. Kind of like when a mother doesnt allow her child to touch fire. The child may think becouse of his limited understanding that she doesnt love him but its just the opposite.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Yeah, but if I imagine "the most lovable being in existence", barbarism does not enter into it at all.
Maybe if you asked me to imagine "a sort of kind of lovable being".. Well, no, I would still not include any barbarism.
Maybe if you asked me to imagine "a being who is sometimes kind of lovable but other times is a bit of an immoral jerk" - only then would I consider including barbarism.
Maybe if you asked me to imagine "a sort of kind of lovable being".. Well, no, I would still not include any barbarism.
Maybe if you asked me to imagine "a being who is sometimes kind of lovable but other times is a bit of an immoral jerk" - only then would I consider including barbarism.
There are some girls who like tough guys. In fact most girls like it in one way or the other to be violently possed or something along those lines.
Thats example how humans can view whats loveable.
Love and power goes together and the deeper the love is more force it has. What may appear barbaric can be viewed as loving when proper understanding is achieved.
Thats example how humans can view whats loveable.
Love and power goes together and the deeper the love is more force it has. What may appear barbaric can be viewed as loving when proper understanding is achieved.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Either way, doesn't matter how you cut it, if you ask me to imagine "The most lovable being possible", the Old Testament Yahweh would not be anywhere near the top of the list of beings I would consider.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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OK. But what is true justice, then?
Somebody robs me of something. They later repent and I forgive them (this is all hypothetical, I must add). How does any of it add up to "true justice"?
I've never actually ever been robbed. But I have had things stolen. Didn't particularly bother me (just a bit of a nuisance really). Possibly because I've really never had anything worth stealing.
True justice happens when the contrition and the forgiveness are achieved. Human justice is also focused on deterrence, which makes it non-perfect for getting true justice.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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But what does this mean: True justice happens when contrition and forgiveness are achieved?
What magic happens between contrition and forgiveness that results in true justice?
Is it just me, or are those three things really rather unrelated to each other?
Are you saying that I can't forgive an unrepentant person? Because I rather think that I can.
So, are you saying that if I do forgive an unrepentant person, then I'm offending against true justice? Or simply not achieving it?
What magic happens between contrition and forgiveness that results in true justice?
Is it just me, or are those three things really rather unrelated to each other?
Are you saying that I can't forgive an unrepentant person? Because I rather think that I can.
So, are you saying that if I do forgive an unrepentant person, then I'm offending against true justice? Or simply not achieving it?
Well you dont live 2000 B.C. Thats something we seem to forget. And again what is lovable and even what love is changes with ones understanding.
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