Should you be afraid of Hell?

But what does this mean: True justice happens when contrition and forgiveness are achieved?

What magic happens between contrition and forgiveness that results in true justice?

Is it just me, or are those three things really rather unrelated to each other?

Are you saying that I can't forgive an unrepentant person? Because I rather think that I can.

So, are you saying that if I do forgive an unrepentant person, then I'm offending against true justice? Or simply not achieving it?

You're doing all that you can. But it's not being achieved. Justice is a moral issue, and morality requires the interaction of (at least) two participants.

You're certainly not offending Justice by forgiving someone who's unrepentant. A huge part of forgiveness is being mindful and understanding the character weaknesses in others. If they're sufficiently weak to not be repentant, then you can forgive that weakness as well as the original sin.
 
Well you dont live 2000 B.C. Thats something we seem to forget. And again what is lovable and even what love is changes with ones understanding.

Hey, you were the one who said to imagine such a lovable being. I did, and it just does not include OT Yahweh. Not even close.
 
I don't think MS proposes that Yahweh exists ... ?

Well, I'm not sure, but I was just responding to this:

:lol: Imagine the most loveble thing in existence. Keep it in your mind and heart for couple second. Than try to multiply the joy and trill it gives you by 10, then 100 and then by 1000 and ten by infinite. Congratulations you just went mad with joy. And this is just shadow of what God is. Now tell me you cant take couple slaps and kicks?

When I imagine such a being, Yahweh does not qualify. MS disagrees.
 
You're doing all that you can. But it's not being achieved. Justice is a moral issue, and morality requires the interaction of (at least) two participants.

You're certainly not offending Justice by forgiving someone who's unrepentant. A huge part of forgiveness is being mindful and understanding the character weaknesses in others. If they're sufficiently weak to not be repentant, then you can forgive that weakness as well as the original sin.

I'm still not coming to grips with what you mean by True Justice.

I don't even know what questions to ask about it.

What's the difference between True Justice and Natural Law?
 
Well, true justice might not be achievable. In fact, it probably isn't. The natural law is from the universe, and we cannot get around it. There's no reason to think that we can get all of the ingredients together (in the real world) to enact true justice.
 
Where does this idea of True Justice come from?

Google doesn't seem to know.

Except that it's a TV series with Steven Seagal - which frankly, fine actor though he may be (just in case he's someone's favourite), doesn't bode well for my research purposes.

(Blow me down! He wrote the thing as well!)
 
Well, true justice might not be achievable. In fact, it probably isn't. The natural law is from the universe, and we cannot get around it. There's no reason to think that we can get all of the ingredients together (in the real world) to enact true justice.

Natural law is not something 'from the universe'.
 
You also cannot get true justice until the victim forgives the perpetrator. The idea that God's forgiveness is 'sufficient' is incoherent
It's ridiculous. It's like a parent forgiving Kid A for what he did to Kid B and Kid B doesn't get any say in the matter. That's not true justice.

:lol: Imagine the most loveble thing in existence. Keep it in your mind and heart for couple second. Than try to multiply the joy and trill it gives you by 10, then 100 and then by 1000 and ten by infinite. Congratulations you just went mad with joy. And this is just shadow of what God is. Now tell me you cant take couple slaps and kicks?
There is no way that any imaginary being could possibly top my cats or the other cats I've known who were lovable.

I don't think ANYONE warrants 14 Billion years of Hell :eek:
I can think of some who do.

There are some girls who like tough guys. In fact most girls like it in one way or the other to be violently possed or something along those lines.
Say whut? :huh:

Is that a typo, or some word I've never heard of before?

Are you saying that I can't forgive an unrepentant person? Because I rather think that I can.
Of course you can. It's your own mind, and your own decision, for your own reasons. What the other person has to say about it is irrelevant.

... morality requires the interaction of (at least) two participants.
I can think of situations where two participants are not required. Unless you want to consider non-human or non-living things to be a "participant".
 
Should you be afraid of Hell?

No, it's not that bad really. A bit isolated and small, but otherwise a nice enough place to visit.

Hell2.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway
 
Valka D'Ur

Who the heck do you know who deserves 14 Billion years of hell?!?

:eek::eek::eek:
 
I'd like to put forward Uwe Boll. I was sceptical to all the hate about him until I saw that Dungeon Siege movie.
 
[A] reviewer wrote that Alone in the Dark was "so poorly built, so horribly acted and so sloppily stitched together that it's not even at the straight-to-DVD level."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Boll

Now that's a bad movie by any standard. But 14 billion years in hell for being a bad director? Just don't watch his movies. That's got to be punishment enough for him.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Boll

Now that's a bad movie by any standard. But 14 billion years in hell for being a bad director? Just don't watch his movies. That's got to be punishment enough for him.

Honestly, even a good movie cannot redeem him. I mean, there is nothing wrong with making bad movies: Just do not actively try to make profit of those.
 
Just noticed I'd forgotten to reply to this question:


Valka D'Ur

Who the heck do you know who deserves 14 Billion years of hell?!?

:eek::eek::eek:
Kitten killers. Obviously.
Borachio is correct, but they're not the only ones. People like Paul Bernardo, who is a serial rapist/murderer who raped many women in Scarborough, Ontario, and graduated to raping, torturing, and murdering his victims - some of whom were as young as 13 or 14 years old. His now ex-wife is just as guilty of what happened to those schoolgirls, but she got off very lightly - just 12 years in prison, and she's out now. He's still in prison and has been designated a dangerous offender... that means that even after his sentence is up, he will likely never be released. That's the best Canada can do, since we have no death penalty here.

Same with Robert Pickton. His victims were grown women, many of them prostitutes. He picked them up, brought them to his farm, killed them, dismembered their bodies, and fed them to his pigs. Investigators found body parts in freezers and hidden all over his farm. He confessed to 49 killings, and lamented that he hadn't been able to make it an even 50.

These are only two.


But yeah, kitten killers are among those I would consign to some sort of hell if it existed. Luka Magnotta used to videotape himself torturing and killing kittens (by drowning by duct taping the kitten to a broom handle and forcing them underwater, suffocation by putting them into a plastic bag and using a vacuum cleaner to suck out all the oxygen, feeding them live to a snake, and putting the videos online. There were people investigating him internationally, trying to track him down, but they didn't manage to do that before Magnotta graduated to killing a human. He chose a Chinese exchange student, and after he'd killed him, he dismembered the body and mailed parts to various places around Canada, including the prime minister and an elementary school. If authorities had taken the cat killings more seriously, that student would still be alive.

And then there's the kitten and dog that were killed in Calgary a year ago... they were found dead in an alley with their muzzles taped shut. They'd been beaten and starved and the kitten (not even a year old) had been tortured. The killer's girlfriend knew about this during the police search, but never turned him in. He was caught and sentenced, but not remotely enough.

So yeah. There are some people I think deserve 14 billion years of hell. None of them showed the slightest bit of remorse for their crimes. No compassion at all for their victims or their victims' families.
 
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