SHWH01 - Iroquois Tree Huggers

[gmaharriet]

Gee, this thinking out loud is kinda fun. Is this pretty much what you guys went over? What's the completely different plan that ignores all of the above?

Edit: Didn't see that Sir Bugs had already started playing. I will await developments.

I'm very curious too. All we discussed was opening moves. We didn't talk about the variant itself except to not cut trees. I can't even imagine what sort of victory we may go for, so I'm looking forward to much discussion and would be grateful for any directions suggested for my turnset(s).

 

[scoutsout]

@Tomoyo:

@Bugs: Fatherly duties first 'n all that's fine. Let's run this on a 24 to "got it" and 48 to play. As for "SHWH"... Second Hand WarHorse. A pretty rough rip-off of "The Grumpy Old Monk".

@SimpleMonkey: Thinking out loud is certainly allowed here... we're making this up as we go along.

@Harriet: We should probably avoid any modern era endgames in this one... though it isn't very "hippie-ish"... conquest or domination (the earlier the better) is probably the order of the day.

@Rik: Coast won't be a problem... I just hope we find some rivers. I played some at emperor level on a continents/80%... and this could easily turn out more like a 'pelago map.

 

[gmaharriet]

@Harriet: We should probably avoid any modern era endgames in this one... though it isn't very "hippie-ish"... conquest or domination (the earlier the better) is probably the order of the day.

Aha! A slugfest. And here I was thinking we might paddle our birchbark canoes to Alpha Centauri.

BTW, I loved your opening with Chief Seattle. Very appropriate for an ecologically sensitive game.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

Iroquois on archipelago are frustrating, to say the least. We shall see.

Not that I'd presume to spend too much time on how to win this one (though it often pays to know the goal and then push for it all out), but I kinda like the idea of a solar-powered starship. With Dark Star playing on the bridge 8-track player, of course.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Some initial thoughts. This variant pretty much takes away one of our traits. We will need to optimize every tile.

4000 BC – Move the worker east and…

Given the variant, that’s a no brainer in Bugsy’s head. Move settler north.

3950 – Found Douglas fir. I figure we ae tree huggers so I’ll name our capitol after a type of tree. Start roading. Start a warrior. Start on the wheel at max.
3800 – warrior=>warrior
3600 – warrior=>warrior
3450 – warrior=>curragh
3250 – curragh=>settler
3200 – Our eastward exploring warrior spots a green boarder.
3150 – It is the Celts. They are up BW, CB & WC. Of course none of those are for sale.

3000 – Here is the venerable monk’s latest publication:


2950 – Our westbound curragh finds a crossing point.

Wheel=>BW We have horses just to our west.

2710 - Our curragh runs out of coast to the west. We found Ponderosa Pine (keeping the tradition). That pops the hut to our south and we get some yokels. That means I have to bring the warrior from Doug Fir south and stop roading with our worker. In the meantime, we run into a warrior wearing an orange tunic. He works for a pasty faced woman named Elizabeth. We ask what she will give us for the wheel and she says BW & CB. We accept her offer. I call on Brennus and see what he has to offer. No deals there. We are now researching WC.

Doug Fir: curragh=>warrior
Ponderosa Pine is ransacked by a barb and we lose 3G.

2590 – We defeat the attacking barb at PP.
DF: warrior=>barracks

After action report: Here is our world-
Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH01_-_2550_BC.SAV




Not sure what kind of map we are dealing with. There is a river to our northeast. The curragh is almost at its mouth. Are we allowed to irrigate to a cow (like the one to the south by Ponderosa Pine) and then get rid of the irrigation to it?

We probably need to expand as much as possible now. Given this landmass, we w.ll also probably have a lot of fishing villages,

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SHWH01_-_2550_BC.SAV

 

[gmaharriet]

This is a "got it", but as always I sure have a LOT of questions. I've looked at the save, but I won't play until after some discussion. I'm a builder at heart and almost always go toward Philosophy first, so I'm gonna need a lot of help here.

These are just notes I took while looking at the save, but they are questions.

After rax in DF, settler, worker or granary?
Settle east toward river? on hill to allow irrigation to any food bonus we may find (if we can do that) or on coast? Could sure use a prelim dot map for city placement.
Colony on incense?
After Warrior Code, then what?
Town build popping GH produced yokels? I've never seen that. Any idea why?
Worker next in PP? Mtn road to horses? With all those mountains, we're going to need lots of worker turns just to connect everything.
Which direction did England come from?

@Bugs, I just love your idea of naming towns for trees...absolutely perfect!!!

 

[scoutsout]

@Bugs: Nice opening! Looking at all that marsh... we are going to have to plant a lot of trees...

...as for whether we're allowed to irrigate to the cow... I'd say yes to that, and "maybe" to pillaging the improvements. We could just plant some more trees to make up for the "extra" damage to the environment.

Proposed amendment to the "Mitigation Plan": For each ordinary tile we improve, we must plant 2 tiles of trees.

Bugs <--- got us started, and found lots of wetlands to mitigate
gmaharriet <--- Up!
Whomp <-- On Deck

 

[scoutsout]

After rax in DF, settler, worker or granary?

I rather doubt we'll be able to afford a granary... maybe a warrior or an archer... or a worker.

Settle east toward river? on hill to allow irrigation to any food bonus we may find (if we can do that) or on coast? Could sure use a prelim dot map for city placement.

There's a choke point to the east. I'd like to claim that.

Colony on incense?

The capitol will eventually claim that. This is "only" monarch level... you can keep 'em happy harriet!

After Warrior Code, then what?

I dunno... Horseback riding?

And I liked Bugsy's idea of naming the towns for trees. Douglas Firs are truly impressive trees. I'm also fond of Cypress trees... and White Oaks. And of course... some say the Loblolly Pine is the state flower of a state I used to live in....

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I agree with scout on most things.

1. I'd go for a settler next and put it on that forest tile at the choke to the east.

2. We won't need a lot of workers in this game so we can probably get by with just one more until we start fighting those swamps.

3. We wanna know how to ride the horsies. Gee, what can you do on a horsie?

On the trees - name the cities after trees from your area. A little diversity. Up here in the northwest we have firs, and pines, and firs and more pines. Did I mention pines?

 

[gmaharriet]

On the trees - name the cities after trees from your area. A little diversity. Up here in the northwest we have firs, and pines, and firs and more pines. Did I mention pines?

Being from California, I'm partial to both Coastal and Sequoia Redwood, but we also have lots of Valley Oaks and Eucalyptus (originally imported from Australia, but they are taking over), plus Elms, Ash, Firs in red, white and silvertip, and even some Douglas Fir. And down south, of course, are the palms and cacti...lots to choose from.

Thanks for the tips, Bugs. Don't ever think I'll be offended by too much detail in your afterplay suggestions. Scout, Whomp and AK can tell you that I'm somewhat limited in my game knowledge, and I'm all over the board for level of play. Most of what I do know came from them and Bede...one new concept at a time. Seems like I'm the perennial trainee.

I'll play tomorrow night.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Are we sure there's not a landbridge to the the celts to the SE of the GH?

 

[gmaharriet]

Are we sure there's not a landbridge to the the celts to the SE of the GH?

Good thinking, AK! That's exactly what it was.



Preturn - See nothing needed, so hit <enter>

IT - PP warrior -> warrior

1. 2510bc - send new warrior N/E to watch for barbs until needed as MP in DF, worker to cow on grass. Curraghs and warrior scouting.

IT - nada

2. 2470bc - Worker begins roading cow.

IT - nada

3. 2430bc - more scouting

IT - nada

4. 2390bc - warrior spots dyes in eastern jungle.

IT - nada

5. 2350bc - worker goes to bring water to 2nd cow.

IT - PP warrior -> settler

6. 2310bc - worker irrigating, one warrior scouting and other for MP in DF. Pop-rush rax in DF.

IT - DF rax -> spearman as PREBUILD for archer when Warrior Code comes in.

7. 2270bc - Southern curragh sees landbridge to Celts south of mountains and goody hut, and there are more dyes just outside their border.

IT - nada

8. 2230bc - scouting warrior spots blue borders in jungle...must be Spain, but not showing on F4 yet. Northern curragh sees Spanish warrior. WC due in 1, lower research to 40%.

IT - WC comes in, set to HBR in 15 at 100% and -2gpt.

9. 2150bc - Isabella has exactly the same techs we have...not even Masonry. Northern curragh spots English borders and gems just outside. Worker continues irrigating toward cow on grass. Swap build at DF to archer.

IT - DF grows to pop 4 and raise lux to 10%. Izzie now has Masonry too, but no one is selling.

10. 2110bc - Warrior pops GH on landbridge to Celts and we get maps and a nice view of Celtic Alesia.

After notes: The settler build in PP could either be pop-rushed now or swapped to a worker in one. There sure is a lot of swamp and jungle.

I think I may have played 11 turns, because I don't see 2190bc and F6 shows turn 41. My apologies to the team.

Here's the save. Pics to follow.

 

[gmaharriet]

Our homeland area

The eastern lands

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think we need to concentrate on settlers and try and settle as much of that jungle north of Ireland as possible.

I still like that forest tile on the isthmus.

Personally, I am not a big fan of pop rushing. I have probably pop-rushed four times in all my time playing Civ. Every time was because I was in extremis, i.e. enemy at the gates.

 

[Bede]

lurker's comment: Keeping an eye on this crowd. And why not go for a diplomatic victory?

 

[Whomp]

Nice work Gram H! That choke point is huge for us.
There looks like a decent site west of Douglas Fir between the incense, sugar and it would capture the whale on expansion. I presume I can bring water to it and pillage the irrigation on the way back.
Since we have limited capabilities production wise does it make sense to let the AI settle the marshes and jungles and capture them?
Another question is whether we can road to our enemy?
Last, can we discuss whether a archer rush is in order?

OK I got it and will play tomorrow.

 

[scoutsout]

And why not go for a diplomatic victory?

Gee...I dunno... Chief Seattle didn't fare so well with treaties signed by the white chiefs, did he?

@Whomp: We can road to connect to other cities, as part of our 'trade network'... so by all means, road to any cities that are on the list as part of any 'acquisition plan'.

As for letting the AI settle the marsh... we may need to look at resettling... sometimes the AI will plant settlers on food bonus tiles if they're the only ones 'available'.

 

[classical_hero]

lurker's comment: About the marshes Wouldn't a tree hugger prefer to keep the natural environment a pristine a possible? So I would think that they would leave swamps and marshes the same.

 

[Bede]

lurker's comment: I don't know if the Iroquois harvested wild rice from the swamps but like any responsible post-industrial nation this bunch does have a "wetlands mitigation plan"......

 

[SimpleMonkey]

I presume I can bring water to it and pillage the irrigation on the way back.

Doesn't irrigation need to be in an unbroken chain? I've never tried pillaging a tile to cut off a water supply, so I don't know for sure, but that was always my impression.

Jeez, when I think of all the epic, inefficient irrigation projects I undertook when I was playing at Regent level... Doing it all with only one worker, if I remember correctly.