Sid variant

[Own]

If we settle on green, we can barely get a 2 turn worker factory at size six, if we have no corruption until six spt. With commercial, large, and 2 distance from capital I don't think we'll have a corrupted shield until six. Then maybe a town 2 S of that to grab the whale.

I'd do capital 6644, that avoids food waste.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

So long as we don't count the (irrigated) deer in, 4fpt at both locations wastes no food whatsoever.

Further bigger dotmap will take more time, but I'm using the river for one or two more cities.

 

[Own]

I understand that we can avoid overrun by working forests some turns, but won't there be some where we can't use a food bonus without overrunning? Maybe I should check the save and not make such assumptions...

 

[ThERat]

I like the start and also the fact that we chose Korea. Hwachas might tilt the balance for us.

I assume we wll agree on min run to writing and then full steam to philo drawing literature from it.

Please do come up with a dotmap

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Lit from philo: also in.

Every point is tentative but this way we get to work a bunch of coastal tiles, work everything and get a good food balance overall. Amendments welcome.

Pink and Purple are very tentative, due to their proximity to the capital. We could very well do pink 3 and move orange further N or NE, which sounds very reasonable when I think of it.

On a big picture note, I'm for keeping both capital and 'wine red' dot on settlers, then on workers when the island is full, until such time when everything (useful) is worked and we merge 30 workers to get an overnight pop boom. I won't object going for a more standard approach of letting the 2 grow after we are out of settling room though.

 

[ThERat]

I don't really like pink 1 as it is so close to our capital...all doesn't look that clear cut to me

 

[I. Larkin]

Roster (closed)
2. Bucephalus - Up
3. Own- On Deck
4. ignas
5. ThERat
6. I. Larkin
1. Beorn-eL-Feared- just played
Where is turn-log? At least brief?
Here is my DM version (I draw above Beorn version). I don't want ICP. On Sid Rank corruption is very high and we need low corruption in silk Cities. May be red(2) could be first or green second. Short-term reason for Green is to connect/irrigate wine faster.
Also I am thinking how to bring water to grapes, to silk and to Game faster. After Hospitals Green 1 will be disbanded.
About Phylo->Lit. It is OK if no other opportunities will appear to trade IBT like CoL->Republic, Math->Construction, Poly->Monarchy. And, if we make Phylo first, of cource. If we research Writing and see that somebody have Phylo already we go to Literature.

 

[I. Larkin]

I don't really like pink 1 as it is so close to our capital...all doesn't look that clear cut to me

I agree with this statement, but can you make some sugesstions?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Sorry for the missing turn log, but there is strictly nothing to report: Warrior was built on turn 6, curragh on turn 11, settler on 17 as outlined. Settler left unmoved, save is of turn 17.

I agree on scrapping the river pink dot. Your #2 is a nice coastal place but it gets neither deer nor wheat before a long while, and then we're stuck with out-of-range good plain tiles, right near the capital, to the NW.

Let me insist on the wine red dot: it grabs the deer. With it, we get the possibility of running 2-turn workers and the capital gets to do 4-turn settlers with no food waste. If we wait for settling #3 before we hit the deer, we lose a lot of early food.

 

[I. Larkin]

1) Sorry for the missing turn log, but there is strictly nothing to report: Warrior was built on turn 5, curragh on turn 11, settler on 17 as outlined. Settler left unmoved, save is of turn 17.

I agree on scrapping the river pink dot.
2) Your #2 is a nice coastal place but it gets neither deer nor wheat before a long while, and then we're stuck with out-of-range good plain tiles, right near the capital, to the NW.

Let me insist on the wine red dot: it grabs the deer. With it, we get the possibility of running 2-turn workers and the capital gets to do 4-turn settlers with no food waste. If we wait for settling #3 before we hit the deer, we lose a lot of early food.

1) Yes but I want official confirmation, that we start Writing on minimum, that we met nobody, land ends at east (?) that you did 17 Turns and "finish". As you did s/sheet, you could paste it.
2) It will grow in five and pump worker in 5. Until we cut Game Forest and irrigate Weat that tiels are not that beneficial.
3) I think nothing can be better than my red dot 2. Location of our Capital is not good for sea scouting. Red is much better. It will perfectly share Weat with your Blue/(shift SW?) and Game with Wite.
I assume that we pump workers from capital to cut forest/road and road tiles to and before/under green.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Writing has been started on minimum.

The spreadsheet is currently stuck at the point of wether or not we build wine red, thus move to chop/irrigate deer next, or build another city elsewhere and do something else with the worker.

If we are going for a settler on some other tile, we'll do BG first and then the granary can come faster in the capital.

As it stands, the capital will easily be able to make settlers on sizes 4.5-6.5 after a chopped granary. We may want to reduce that to 4-5, it would only need removing a curragh from the list.

Spoiler spreadsheet :

There's a chop assumed for when we hit 40 shields.

I put the granary rather far down because we don't know when we'll get Pottery.

 

[I. Larkin]

put the granary rather far down because we don't know when we'll get Pottery.
With our "variant" it may be very long time

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Alternatively, if we do your dots, I'd definitely go for 2-1-3 so we get the deer as fast as possible. We will lose 1 turn and 2 food from the extra turn it'll take to walk #1, though. Worker can go and irrigate/road the path to 2, then chop-irrigate deer will be done by the time #3 is founded. I would use that chop into a settler, assuming we don't have Pottery on hand.

Wines city (#2) needs worker turns to be connected and I'd rather have the initial worker's turns be spent on our farmer cities. That city could pop a worker first thing and use it to connect/irrigate. This said worker would be the one to chop the granary in: after moving the second settler (1 turn), making a worker (10), roading/irrigating the wines (7), moving to forest (1), the chop (4) is in 23 turns after settler #2's creation, which is exactly the last turn we can afford it to be for the granary to let us run 4.5-6.5 forever after. The idea of scrapping a curragh and doing 4-5 is not an option.

If we are indeed badlucked and can't afford to find an AI by turn 50, we'll have the opportunity of researching it ourselves at full speed. I would really hate that idea.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

After Hospitals Green 1 will be disbanded.

I don't like hospitals in productive towns. I build them in super large specialist farms but I tend to keep my core cities at size 12. It gives less shields a piece but you get no pollution and no turns spent on building the hospital, let alone grow beyond 12 (80 food per size is huge). Maybe I underestimate rank corruption though.

 

[I. Larkin]

For my "variant" (Outmand AI research at Sid at IA and MA) Hospitals are the must. For "technical reason" we have to have Cities like Green 1, and it is not bad for MA and early IA. But we have to take into account long terms. BTW if pink out tile 4 will be out of range... actually there is so many DM variants, I wonder, where the other TM (team members)? We may move red 2 SE Deer will be "at once", but Wheat much later.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Which makes me think: what about building both our red dots? Scrap orange, keep pink 2 (use for inland tiles), abandon wine red when the time comes.

Order becomes wine red - green - red - white and we make the very most out of our deer. In an hospital / city abandon mindset, I don't see why not.

 

[I. Larkin]

Anoter option settle where I plan "Irrigate" We may cut/ irrigate Game sonner and bring Water to plaines/Silk.
It will be optimal compromise of our "plans".
And save 3-4 worker turns. Also share 2 BG with Capital and 2 Cows It will give us maximum flexibility.
This "Couple" will grow wery fast...
May worker in Capital next? (ready in 3).
Silk and curraghs may wait...
Another thing to discuss: When Curragh reach West Point shall it go to "mission" or scout along Coast?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I tend to circle around the island, fortify the boats for a turn (more visibility) when they reach a corner, and keep going. After I'm done going around, if no sea tiles come up in the fog, I just go towards the middle of the map from our furthest point - here I'd go NW.

If we settle your irrigate tile, which idea I like, I'd walk the worker 2 tiles up to the deer after having roaded the BG. No road on the grassland, straight to chop.

 

[Own]

Wow... I'm gone for a day and all of this discussion pops up.

wine red - green - red - white

I've studied your spreadsheet, and it looks good. I have noticed that we aren't using the second irrigated cow very much. I know that it would create overrun, but it'd be nice if we could get a city using it to avoid waste. The grape city with the 2 turn worker factory in the distant future will take a while to develop, and a few more cities to expand it's radius to get better tiles. So I think our first city should be one that could borrow an irrigated cow, like pink three or red.

Let's build as many workers as we can early on. Curraghs and contacts are higher priority, but in non coastal towns we need those workers for all the extensive irrigation we'll need on these grapes.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

The point of not using it is that we assume it is being used to speed up #2, Grasshopper.

Food units are indeed #1 priority here, we're alone. We'll need a good number of curraghs to reach anyone though. Pre-built GLH maybe?