I followed BeF's spreadsheet with a one exception. For one, the worker cannot reach the deer in one turn like BeF planned, and I hope to Jesus that it's not because the second city was supposed to be SE of the one I settled; a city there would allow the worker to get to the deer in one turn. The worker in IRRIGATE took 6 turns instaed of five, because the spreadsheet told me to let Flint have the second cow for the fifth turn of the worker production, which allowed it to grow efficienter.
Sid variant
- Thread starter I. Larkin
- Start date
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
The ss was done assuming a city SE of where you put it, and you put it where we agreed on, which is great.
I think purple is due for a move SE.
Green next as planned, with worker first off?
I think purple is due for a move SE.
Green next as planned, with worker first off?
n the green dotHi,
2670Bc move towards green dot as someone suggested;turn lux down
IBT: nothing
2630Bc: lux up to 30%;start chopping game forest;exploring with curaghs;notice our island isn't very big
IBT: IRRIGATE warrior-> Settler
2590Bc: sent warrior from IRRIGATE to explore east;settle Toxicity on the green dot ->worker;explore with curraghs
IBT: Flint Valley curraggh->settler;IRRIGATE grows to size 2
2550Bc: swap cow between IRRIGATE and Flint;move warriors and curraghs
IBT:nothing
2510Bc:worker finishes mining bg near river, i start roading;
IBT:forest chopped, 10 shields to IRRIGATE
2470Bc:start irrigating deer;lux up
IBT nothing
2430 Bc: move units
IBT: worker finishes roading bg near river;
2390Bc: worker moves towards town #3 to connect wines;move cows between towns as spreadsheet suggests;military police in Flint, of course lower lux
IBT:Flint settler->curragh
i stop after 8 turns as it is very late in my country and i don't know where to settle other town. Leave it to the next better player
I guess other player (Rat?) shuold risk suicide curragh run in the west. I hope i did ok everything according to the spreadsheet
Roster:
ThERat
Ivan Larkin
Beorn-eL-Feared
Own
ignas
2670Bc move towards green dot as someone suggested;turn lux down
IBT: nothing
2630Bc: lux up to 30%;start chopping game forest;exploring with curaghs;notice our island isn't very big
IBT: IRRIGATE warrior-> Settler
2590Bc: sent warrior from IRRIGATE to explore east;settle Toxicity on the green dot ->worker;explore with curraghs
IBT: Flint Valley curraggh->settler;IRRIGATE grows to size 2
2550Bc: swap cow between IRRIGATE and Flint;move warriors and curraghs
IBT:nothing
2510Bc:worker finishes mining bg near river, i start roading;
IBT:forest chopped, 10 shields to IRRIGATE
2470Bc:start irrigating deer;lux up
IBT nothing
2430 Bc: move units
IBT: worker finishes roading bg near river;
2390Bc: worker moves towards town #3 to connect wines;move cows between towns as spreadsheet suggests;military police in Flint, of course lower lux
IBT:Flint settler->curragh
i stop after 8 turns as it is very late in my country and i don't know where to settle other town. Leave it to the next better player
I guess other player (Rat?) shuold risk suicide curragh run in the west. I hope i did ok everything according to the spreadsheet
Roster:
ThERat
Ivan Larkin
Beorn-eL-Feared
Own
ignas
Attachments
ThERat
Deity
The land in the north sure looks ugly 
Now that we know our Island, can we get some dotmap up before I play. I will wait until tomorrow night my time to play as I think we better do not the turns. Is there a spreadsheet to work on for now?
I would send a suicide dingy west from the tip in the middle of the Island (the lower tip is a little too low I think). The eastern dingy could just cross from where it is.
Now that we know our Island, can we get some dotmap up before I play. I will wait until tomorrow night my time to play as I think we better do not the turns. Is there a spreadsheet to work on for now?
I would send a suicide dingy west from the tip in the middle of the Island (the lower tip is a little too low I think). The eastern dingy could just cross from where it is.
I. Larkin
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
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- 4,417
Here is "my version" of DM. Dark blue dots nd circles are "obvious". But it may be discussed. I really want Pink (2). It is ideal "Copernicus/Newton" City. (Silk gives 5 gpt, almost gold hill, but there are many!). Yellow circles are "Problematic". Things depend on will we disband Toxi and Irrigate in a future. The problem is that Island is small for large map. As commercial we deserve 15 before FP, and 21 Cities after. It is not enough room for 21.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
No picture showing, Ivan 
I wouldn't be in a big rush for workers: we have no granaries to pump shields into. The #1 thing to do, right now, is to ensure that, ASAP, every 2 growths in flint and irrigate, there's a settler coming out. I haven't counted it but we may need a worker for that (mining grasses).
Re: the spreadsheet, it is outdated by now (it was by the middle of the second set). We have 2 cities to manage and it would need to be redone from scratch anyways. I'll have more time early next week if we want a complete overhaul on that matter, but not this week.
I wouldn't be in a big rush for workers: we have no granaries to pump shields into. The #1 thing to do, right now, is to ensure that, ASAP, every 2 growths in flint and irrigate, there's a settler coming out. I haven't counted it but we may need a worker for that (mining grasses).
Re: the spreadsheet, it is outdated by now (it was by the middle of the second set). We have 2 cities to manage and it would need to be redone from scratch anyways. I'll have more time early next week if we want a complete overhaul on that matter, but not this week.
well in our small and riverless island it will be be hard to keep up in tech with Sid AI's. We should as much as possible exploit coastal tiles for their extra commerce. Tight city spacing could be beneficial here(unit support and income increased), later in IA we could disband some towns.
I'd say we should build 3 towns near the lake in the east (3 aqueducts saved=300shields towards infra), also forbidden palace towards east (town on dot 1) should make those cities quite productive.
I'd also say our next town should be built 3SE, E near a cow to get as much food as we can in the beggining
I'd say we should build 3 towns near the lake in the east (3 aqueducts saved=300shields towards infra), also forbidden palace towards east (town on dot 1) should make those cities quite productive.
I'd also say our next town should be built 3SE, E near a cow to get as much food as we can in the beggining
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I'd put the silk dot N-NE of wheat so that it grabs the north-west silks. Irrigate can take charge of the leftover one with little corruption itself. It's 0.5 distance closer to the capital, so the game will count it as 1 closer and will give less corruption.
I'm not a fan of OCP so I'd do the 3 on lake, one at the very tip of the island for the whales and the closer one, "1" with an arrow, on the most inland corner available that grabs coast. That pretty much follows ignas' plan.
IMHO the more tiles we work the earlier, the better. This is a large map so rank corruption can't kill us THAT much on an island no bigger than this. In the North, if it's going to be corrupt anyways, why not ICP and put lone beakerheads in towns after they have grown and work sea tiles for gold?
OCN calculator tells that we'll be allowed 24 cities once we have republic and FP, and at least 17 right now.
I'm counting 15 "productive" (not counting the 3 at the far North) cities if we go for 3 around the lake and everything, which leaves 9 for ICP in the North.
This might be a bad idea, I'm not sure about it myself but I can't rid myself of it: what if we do FP in silk town ASAP (like building Library - FP right at first) and ICP the eastern tip of the island? The eastern tip is more food friendly than the north and the north-west has alot of hill tiles ...
Removing question mark blue and the 4 towns in the corrupt circle, that's 17. With the 4 towns and the question mark we're up at 22: OCN for republic without FP. Question mark is probably too close for our purposes so I just drew it there without putting much stock in it. Northern Blue could move 1SW and have more land tiles in the end or stay up there and grab oasis' right off.
Edit: looking back at it, I'd scrap orange and move light green 1SE: closer to FP and gets whale anyways + an extra chop.
I'm not a fan of OCP so I'd do the 3 on lake, one at the very tip of the island for the whales and the closer one, "1" with an arrow, on the most inland corner available that grabs coast. That pretty much follows ignas' plan.
IMHO the more tiles we work the earlier, the better. This is a large map so rank corruption can't kill us THAT much on an island no bigger than this. In the North, if it's going to be corrupt anyways, why not ICP and put lone beakerheads in towns after they have grown and work sea tiles for gold?
OCN calculator tells that we'll be allowed 24 cities once we have republic and FP, and at least 17 right now.
I'm counting 15 "productive" (not counting the 3 at the far North) cities if we go for 3 around the lake and everything, which leaves 9 for ICP in the North.
This might be a bad idea, I'm not sure about it myself but I can't rid myself of it: what if we do FP in silk town ASAP (like building Library - FP right at first) and ICP the eastern tip of the island? The eastern tip is more food friendly than the north and the north-west has alot of hill tiles ...
Removing question mark blue and the 4 towns in the corrupt circle, that's 17. With the 4 towns and the question mark we're up at 22: OCN for republic without FP. Question mark is probably too close for our purposes so I just drew it there without putting much stock in it. Northern Blue could move 1SW and have more land tiles in the end or stay up there and grab oasis' right off.
Edit: looking back at it, I'd scrap orange and move light green 1SE: closer to FP and gets whale anyways + an extra chop.
ThERat
Deity
It seems that the eastern cities are less debatable, thus I would settle them first.
If we really chose BeF's pink city to be the FP city, we should settle that fast too as start to irrigate the wheat there.
If we really chose BeF's pink city to be the FP city, we should settle that fast too as start to irrigate the wheat there.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: Subscribing and wishing good luck to all 
Btw, the pictures are nice!
Btw, the pictures are nice!
I. Larkin
Deity
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- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
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Discussion not setteled at all, and our next settelment depend on long term future. For short term reason we have to settle "light blue" first. Than Green from Capital and from "Irrigate" Brown FP, or blue "lake Cow". It is 3 different variants for Pink FP, and it has to be discussed.
Re: FP . Placement of FP have no influence on Rank Corruption. As to distance Corruption it is so small that we may neglect it on our Island. I'd like to hope that we will have land nearby to settle. FP than (and Palace jump) may be on that or near tip to that new land.
But currently we have only this land and have to setlle in the way to use coast and sea tiles as much as possible.
@Beorn, Thanks for OCN calculator.
BTW our map is 120, 128 or 129 H and W?
ThERat
Deity
save
Pre-Turn
decide to send the settler southwest to the undebated location
reduce lux to 20%
1.2310BC
we have another settler, that I send east
start 2 suicide runs to the west and east
reduce lux to 10%
2.2270BC
well, we lose 1 suicide dingy in the west
the eastern dingy spots safe waters, but needs to survive a turn
3.2230BC
well, the eastern dingy survives and we actually psot a light blue border
4.2190BC
we get a third worker, start another
found Whale City and start a worker there
we meet Sumer, they are actually down alphabet...they would pay their whole treasury for it, but no tech
I do not trade it as we want to be safer for philo
5.2150BC
found At Cow's End in the east, start a dingy there as it makes 2 spt
2 workers start to connect the wines after a forest has been chopped
6. 2110BC
Flint Valley produces another settler with growth to 4, starts a curragh
Irrigate produces a MP warrior and goes for a settler
Sumer would still pay all their money for alphabet, looks like they are researching something else
lux goes to 0% with the new MP
7.2070BC
zzz
8.2030BC
wine is now connected and lux should be down even more
send another suicide dingy westwards
well, Sumer still do pay all their gold which is now 71gold
9.1990BC
the dingy sank
IT Persia completes the pyramids
10.1950BC
Flint produces another dingy that moves west of course
we have a settler in position, but I leave it to the next player to settle in case we want to shift it
the first wine tile will be done with irrigation next turn, we should do that with more
The good news is that the easter dingy spots yellow borders and we can make contact next turn
I have been holding off a deal with Sumer as they still pay all 76gold for alphabet. I would keep it until we have writing and then
sell it for the best deal.
Writing is done in 6 and we should then go for philo at full steam
our land and a possible western crossing
th eastern dingy
Pre-Turn
decide to send the settler southwest to the undebated location
reduce lux to 20%
1.2310BC
we have another settler, that I send east
start 2 suicide runs to the west and east
reduce lux to 10%
2.2270BC
well, we lose 1 suicide dingy in the west
the eastern dingy spots safe waters, but needs to survive a turn
3.2230BC
well, the eastern dingy survives and we actually psot a light blue border
4.2190BC
we get a third worker, start another
found Whale City and start a worker there
we meet Sumer, they are actually down alphabet...they would pay their whole treasury for it, but no tech
I do not trade it as we want to be safer for philo
5.2150BC
found At Cow's End in the east, start a dingy there as it makes 2 spt
2 workers start to connect the wines after a forest has been chopped
6. 2110BC
Flint Valley produces another settler with growth to 4, starts a curragh
Irrigate produces a MP warrior and goes for a settler
Sumer would still pay all their money for alphabet, looks like they are researching something else
lux goes to 0% with the new MP
7.2070BC
zzz
8.2030BC
wine is now connected and lux should be down even more
send another suicide dingy westwards
well, Sumer still do pay all their gold which is now 71gold
9.1990BC
the dingy sank
IT Persia completes the pyramids
10.1950BC
Flint produces another dingy that moves west of course
we have a settler in position, but I leave it to the next player to settle in case we want to shift it
the first wine tile will be done with irrigation next turn, we should do that with more
The good news is that the easter dingy spots yellow borders and we can make contact next turn
I have been holding off a deal with Sumer as they still pay all 76gold for alphabet. I would keep it until we have writing and then
sell it for the best deal.
Writing is done in 6 and we should then go for philo at full steam
our land and a possible western crossing
th eastern dingy
ThERat
Deity
that's precisely why I did not settle any spot that has not been settled so far...
I. Larkin
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,417
Hi, everybody.
I got it and even play half turn to resume. Met Egypt. they know Alpha and everethig else, but wrutung. Now Sumeria agrees to trade like Pottery+ masonary for Alph + gold. It is within my "1/3 rule" as Alpha = 5, pottery = 2, and Masonary = 4. However if we want WC+Masonary then things depend how to count one third. (We don't want to do that trade but I just ask): 7*2/3 < 5, but 5*4/3 < 7. At future we may even bump with funny situation if we will have monopoly Tech and want to trade it for bunch of non-monopoly techs we will be at even more troubles. What do you think if reformulate Tech-to Tech trade restriction in this way: n Techs from AI is allowed for m techs + gold from Human player if AI agrees to n-1 Techs to m Tecs from Human (without gold)? Obviosly m>0.
Another exception I have in mind If we overun research (loose something to AI and they agree sell Tech for 10-12 Gold) Can we buy it in this case?
Any thoughts about Techs and peace treaty restrictions?
It is not canonical variant , you know and rules may be settled only via practise.
Ivan.
I got it and even play half turn to resume. Met Egypt. they know Alpha and everethig else, but wrutung. Now Sumeria agrees to trade like Pottery+ masonary for Alph + gold. It is within my "1/3 rule" as Alpha = 5, pottery = 2, and Masonary = 4. However if we want WC+Masonary then things depend how to count one third. (We don't want to do that trade but I just ask): 7*2/3 < 5, but 5*4/3 < 7. At future we may even bump with funny situation if we will have monopoly Tech and want to trade it for bunch of non-monopoly techs we will be at even more troubles. What do you think if reformulate Tech-to Tech trade restriction in this way: n Techs from AI is allowed for m techs + gold from Human player if AI agrees to n-1 Techs to m Tecs from Human (without gold)? Obviosly m>0.
Another exception I have in mind If we overun research (loose something to AI and they agree sell Tech for 10-12 Gold) Can we buy it in this case?
Any thoughts about Techs and peace treaty restrictions?
It is not canonical variant , you know and rules may be settled only via practise.
Ivan.
Attachments
I've read this post again and again, and I do not understand. Maybe you're saying the same thing that I am. I think that the rule should be the following: You cannot pay gold (including gold and gpt) for a tech unless 2/3 or more of the tech price in the trade comes from a different source. It could be world maps, techs you're giving them, or research you've already done on the tech you're buying.
I. Larkin
Deity
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- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,417
I compleatly get mixed up. How to determine this parameters? I mean 2/3 of tech price? And how to value peace treaty, say?
Simple question: Trade on picture is allowed according to "our rule" or not?
I think is alowed.
Harder question WC+Masonary allowed for Alpha+gold or not?
I dont' know. And "tech price and 1/3 of tech price is not very clear what it is. What do you think about "n" and "m" idea?
