Sid variant

[I. Larkin]

Few suggestions:
Why not to establish some embassies and start Phony wars?
Say, In Sumeria and initiate vs Egyptians for Writing?
and in Babylon and vs Greeks? Or, at least trade Mysticizm to Babylons for gold.
Also, we may trade MM from France. Better if she will have TGL. Galleys will scout faster. Also I recomend to settle Island south to Umma.
(send empty Galley to Ocean having next Galley with Settler and warior ready. If first will not sink send next and unload in Island. It will be very good "pirate base", for slaves hunter.
Cowgulia better start FP (after Granary, Lib ASAP, not build any workers.)
"Irrigate" if work on forest will produce settler in2 turns.
Flint better buil Library (not settlers) as it can grow above 6.
Corruption forcast: Yellow figures aboe {distance,rank} before FP. Black figures below distance and rank corruption in %, rounded down. Top pair is for despotism and below for Republic. Probably , however, we will get FP before Rep. Figures are different (a bit) from CivAssistII. I assumed OCN from calculator and use for Large Map 128 W and L. Will check what is in reality.

 

[I. Larkin]

Own Up. I think we can continue with 1 SF in "Irrigate" Flint may continue settlers after build Lib at size 9-7 regime. As you see from my corruption Forcast next Cities are not that good. Actually idea of "irrigate" was "not to irrigate grassland" Water could go via plains only. But well... Actually I thought that better to shift "Irrigate" NE on Hills soonner or later. But let it pump settlers for a while.

 

[Own]

I probably can't get to this tonight which means I can't get to it until wednesday... so I need a skip.

 

[ignas]

So it's my turn if own needs skip.
Got the save and will play few hours later

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I'm a huge SF fan, I'd keep pulling settlers/workers out of Flint / Irrigate and joining them everywhere to push pop upwards... but that's just me.

 

[ThERat]

Again, I am with BeF. Keep the capital as a settler factory until all spots have been settled. Sure, the library at size 7 would be nice, but more towns are what we need faster. Once we are a republic, we will need more towns for unit support.

I agree with establishing some embassies and maybe start some phony wars to keep the AI busy.

 

[el_filet]

lurker's comment: thank you for your extensive answer. placing the eastern city next do a freshwater source makes the decision obvious. even without it your explanation holds for the more important early game, as mentioned. my cities were usually placed ocp, which worked well until demigod. to win on deity i had to place cities closer together, but i always refused to play icp, although it was proven very effective on several occasions.
this one ist over my head, i would have joined the awe if the roster wouldn't have been filled in no time. hope you prove a strong core enables you to selfresearch even on sid. good luck!

 

[Own]

yeah, we definately need to get settlers out quick. Sid will be plopping settlers on our island faster than you will believe.

 

[ignas]

1250Bc: notice we need more workers, switch some build to workers;
embassy in Athens for 65 gold, defended by 9 hoplite, producing hoplite at 15spt, has 3 gems and iron connected, in golden age, seem to be at war with Babylon
embassy in Egypt for 97 gold, defended by 9 spears, despotism, producing 8spt, sword in 2, has 3 luxes, iron, horses
embassy in Sumeria, despotism, quite a few enkidus, ToA in 13
embassy in Babylon,nothing special

IBT:whale city curragh->worker (has plenty of food)
at cows end worker->library
westgreen worker->worker

1225Bc: MM Irrigate to grow and build settler in time;explore with curraghs

IBT: IRRIGATE settler->worker (will build few 2 turn workers as i think we need few of these)

1200Bc: sell Babylon Mysticism for 220 gold
MM a bit, build new town, explore with curraghs
trade philo+lit for MapMaking
sell greece philo for 233 g and get ROP

IBT: first lib in Toxicity->warrior for mp

1175Bc: move curraghs

IBT: flint settler->settler;irrigate worker->worker

1150Bc: nothing important to report

IBT: -

1125Bc:notice Greeece discovered MM last turn;

IBT: irrigate worker->worker
toxicity warrior->warrior

1100Bc: -

IBT: -

1075Bc:

IBT: flint settler->settler;irrigate worker->worker,whale worker->worker;french builds lightouse

1050Bc: -

IBT: toxi warrior->warrior;ulsan galley->galley

1025bc: -

IBT:athens finishes MoM;irrigate worker->worker

1000bc:contact Persia, they are up CoL,HBR,Poly but down lit;sumeria now has writing also

Left trades for other player:we can trade something for polytheism with sumeria, also with Persia like lit+gold for col+hbr if it's not against this variant's rules and start rep at max.
Didn't start any wars as i don't understand the point why should we start them: to slow tech pace?well there are no runaway AI's and tech pace is already very slow compared to sid, and we might lose good trading opportunities if we will be warring too much. Maybe later in the game but i'd say not now. Or did you mean MA's tied with peace to get war happiness?
Of course now the main thing is to get contacts ASAP, build a force of workers and improve land.

Roster:
THERat up next
I.Larkin
Beorn
Own
ignas

 

[ThERat]

ok, got it for tomorrow...so we have some time to discuss about getting the AI's into a war and if, which ones.

I would personally not have traded away lit and philo for a monopoly tech as it seemed to be in the case of MM. It cost us a lot. Did we give up our lit monopoly for that?

Since France built the Great Lighthouse, we better make sure to settle our land faster before those guys come to settle our land. We do not need any French colony on our continent.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I'm with rat for trades: it wasn't particularly affordable, we didn't get much out of it and we traded things away on 2 (!) different continents.

Big trades with Persia and Sumer for Republic sound very good. I'm surprised someone got CoL.

About phony wars, I'd wait until France has met people off their island (embassy Paris anyone?) and start offshore wars. Those won't go very far and will not catapult the AI's out of unit count mediocrity.

 

[I. Larkin]

Where embassy screens? What research rate of AIs?
What ROP with Greeks for? Now we can't start war vs greeks.
About wars: We have to generate War happines, so, please, read my article at strategy forum "War Happines works!" Did you chop forest before settelment? It is 10 Shields...
Why you did not try to settel on Island near sumeria? I think it is too late now, as Persia already nearby. Why Flint continue to build settlers? It may grow and build Library... We have no good place to settle, and better to do road first. Whale City shold build Library. I'd even to do poprush there.

 

[ignas]

Many mistakes,sorry, firstly did and later thought.Trading away lit was really bad idea.
All AI's were in Despotism and running 40% science (probably unit support killing them), greece and babylon were at war and both in Golden Age

 

[ThERat]

About wars: We have to generate War happines, so, please, read my article at strategy forum "War Happines works!

Are you trying to gain war happiness by AI's making alliances against us?

 

[I. Larkin]

ok, got it for tomorrow...so we have some time to discuss about getting the AI's into a war and if, which ones.

I would personally not have traded away lit and philo for a monopoly tech as it seemed to be in the case of MM. It cost us a lot. Did we give up our lit monopoly for that?

Since France built the Great Lighthouse, we better make sure to settle our land faster before those guys come to settle our land. We do not need any French colony on our continent.

Idea to get MM faster was to settel on Island. Or build Galleys to bring settler and Workers faster. We build only 1 Library! What for we get Literature, but not Construction, say? I sort of insist to build Lib in Capital and let it to grow. As I said, we should chop forest to Cowigula City to get Granry/ Lib faster. (Bifore settler on spot will destroy forest).
I agree that we have to have many Cities at Republic, but it is long way to Republic from now.
I don't think that France will settell at our Island. It is ocean disconnected and we kill their spears easy "in case".
Trade with Persia: it is "within variant rules" to trade HBR+CoL for Literature, in both interpritation (Own's and mine), but I'd better trade CoL for Lit only. (or not trade at all) And trade CoL to France, Say. As I understand France and Persia in contact already We may trade Math to Babylons.
It is only Currency/Construction separate us from MA, and normally I trade IBT to get Theology or Invention as free Tech. However I am affraid that we will still research Republic when AIs will come to MA.
War: The only resonable opponent is Egypt, but without Island this war do not have much sense.

 

[ignas]

I guess he has in mind MA's tied with peace. If AI breaks the alliance before 20 turns run out AI is forced to declare on us and thus giving us war happiness

 

[I. Larkin]

Are you trying to gain war happiness by AI's making alliances against us?

Unfortunately only first war generate WH. If AI make MA against us it does not generate more WH. Untill Astro it is safe to be in war with anybody, but France. However I don't whant to loose trade opportunities. This is dilemma. According to my experience this trick works only if to make many MAs with one AI. Then it is a chanse that at least one will be broken.

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
sell maths to Babylon for 145 gold
establish embassy with French

reduce lux to 10%, employ some scientists and get CoL in 3. Do not want to trade lit to Persia just yet
pop rush library in Cowigula

1.975BC
lux stays down and more scientists employed, refuse to trade lit for tech we get in 2 turns

2.950BC
well, more AI fighting

lux up to 20% CoL in 1

IT French also declare on Egypt, poor victims
we get CoL, Sumeria finishes ToA

3.925BC
found Chonju, Republic is a distant 37 turns away

IT Americans finish Hanging Gardens

4.900BC
with the second lux connected, reduce lux rate to 10%

5.875BC
forest chop goes into Cowligula's granary and reveals a BG
Greece has currency and for the first time during my turns, some useful trade would be available
CoL and lit won' be enough to get it, will wait a bit

6. 850BC
decide to trade France CoL for HBR and poly
then give CoL, poly and HBR to Greece for currency and all their 48gold

IT French start the Great wall, we know what that means

7.825BC
in fact Egypt and France have construction

get construction from Egypt for poly, CoL, HBR and philo. They throw in additional 93gold + 16 gpt
well, we draw engineering as our free tech

I would love to sell babs some tech for gpt, but they only got 2gpt free at the moment. Better wait a while

IT French finish the Great Library

8.800BC
Since France will get currency for free anyway, I gift it to them as a bribe as all they have is 1 gold

9.775BC
found another city in the north
republic drops to 25 turns, decide to sell Persia literature for 143gold and 8gpt

IT we get the FP message

10.750BC
situation right now:

we have 4 libraries, the FP city will finish the granary soon and then go for the FP
we also will finish 4 more libraries soonish
2 cities on settler duty. Capital should go for a settler after the galley
there are still some Civs not met (4 of them)

the land we have, the added BG near the FP city should change the city placement there

the tech situation

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

So we'll be building FP in a crowded corner where we'll have no real production capacity rather than somewhere near the NW hills and silks?

Tech situation looks awesome now and we have a number of done or close libs When we have Republic for bargain chip, I'd gift all the SCI around until we can grab Mono/Feud.

 

[I. Larkin]

sell maths to Babylon for 145 gold

Did they pay gpt? at my save they could

establish embassy with French

may be better also to Persia to know where Big Dog lives?

decide to sell Persia literature for 143gold and 8gpt

it make them lot stronger!