Sidar survival challenge- winnable?

[cIV_khanh93]

whats a magniot line?

 

[Kenjister]

The Magniot Line was a series of fortifications built by the French after WW1 on thier border with Italy and Germany to protect them incase they were invaded again. If was very strong where it covered, but when WW2 broke out, the Germans simply went through Belgium where only minor fortifications existed, and avoided the strong forts that the French poured tons of resources into. Needless to say, France fell very fast.

I still think Archery is a must though, since you would be gambling very heavily on copper if you beelined bronze.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

no, you get mining, then IF you have copper you go to BW, if not you go to archery. unless mining->archery got taken out?

 

[Kenjister]

ops, stupid me. I wasn't thinking clearly.

I wonder what the general concensious is on whether Bronze Working (if you have copper) or Archery is better?
I tend to think Archery, since I love defensive strikes and the drill line means you can hold off massive stacks.

 

[zup]

I guess alternating between guerilla and drill archers might be the way to go. The guerilla guys kill off anything that managed to get strong somehow and the rest is just mop up. Never tried it though.

 

[WarKirby]

I'm doing this now. It's actually disappointingly easy so far. The AI has beat me to founding every religion, though. But I got most of the good early wonders. Protecting my one city with a vast horde of archers and axemen at present. Repeated Ljosalfar incursions are easily dealt with, and nobody else is on my continent.

I'm guessing the AIs are too busy fighting amongst themselves elsewhere.

 

[Demus]

I'm doing this now. It's actually disappointingly easy so far. The AI has beat me to founding every religion, though. But I got most of the good early wonders. Protecting my one city with a vast horde of archers and axemen at present. Repeated Ljosalfar incursions are easily dealt with, and nobody else is on my continent.

I'm guessing the AIs are too busy fighting amongst themselves elsewhere.

sounds odd, unless you've changed the standard OCC survival challenge: putting the AI's teamed up. I'm in the middle of a relatively simple challenge atm, against a team of the clan and the doviello, with their barbarian helpers.

By the way, the fastest way to get shades isn't to defend against massive attacks, it's to counter attack at any given oppertunity with decent enough odds. This gives you shades MUCH faster than just playing defence. That's why i beeline poisons anyway, those movement 2 ghosts (combined with a blitzing rathus) are taking down 8-10 units per turn atm, relieving much of the load on my city defenders.
But ah well, that's just how i play this gametype.

 

[Jules.lt]

I'm doing one with archers then longbowmen for defence + ghosts for offence and shades creation. Went RoK for guerilla II and it's amazing having longbowmen with +100% defence at creation. Arthendain's Destroy Undead helps since most of the world is AV right now, and having a healer without Priesthood is nice (I needed the infirmary's health because of all the flood plains anyway). No unit went as far as Blitz without being Shaded, apart from Heroes.

Founded RoK, OO and Order. I'm thinking about Shading the RoK heroes and going Order for the Vicars, and I'm trying hard for the Altar despite my GPPs from the wonders (7 priests slots). I still made the Necronomicon for the priest slots and the water mana -> Spring (no mana available close enough to be accessible).

Hidden workers and prod/research from xp are a must. I don't see how this could ever be done with another civ...

 

[PanzerWolf]

Think I might have to try this in my next game What map are you playing on? I would assume Erebus will block too many players off?

Also, how is this now working with the nerfed XP from barbs?

 

[cIV_khanh93]

th exp cant be nerfed too much, besides, you dont NEED any shades before your first encounter with an enemy stack, just some better warriors that can maybe score on the offense.

 

[mathwiz]

Has anyone been able to do this on pangaea?

 

[cIV_khanh93]

I guess I cna make an informed desicion later, I finall got BtS reinstalled! just in time for the weekdays!
mathwiz, I suppose ir depends on how many AIs you set.

 

[Kenjister]

I think success depends largely on how fast and how many AI's find you. If they never find you, then they never attack and may be fight amongst themselves. It actually isn't that hard to last if you get a decent commerce AND production spot. Then it just depends on the AI's you know.

If only two or so find you then you're set. Unless one of them is Sheaim. Then spam Archers. Lots of them. If it's Hippus, say goodbye to your improvements.

 

[Charlie_B]

I'm taking on the challenge too, my first game on Deity. All going brilliantly, except for two really annoying things:

`There's no diplomacy so I can't get anyone to become my vassal, but the AI magically can. This is surely a bug, and a really annoying one.
`I'm playing on an Erberus map and don't have a coastal city. Stygian guards and tsunamis can still handle everything on the coast but I can't break past highly-fortified walls with water walkers. Mages with Water II and Fire II might do it, but I don't have fire mana

 

[Seten]

The Magniot Line was a series of fortifications built by the French after WW1 on thier border with Italy and Germany to protect them incase they were invaded again. If was very strong where it covered, but when WW2 broke out, the Germans simply went through Belgium where only minor fortifications existed, and avoided the strong forts that the French poured tons of resources into. Needless to say, France fell very fast.

I still think Archery is a must though, since you would be gambling very heavily on copper if you beelined bronze.

Wrong , french politican weren't that stupid
The purpose of the wall was to push the german to attack through belgium and wait them where the french wanted to hold them with their best division , keeping them in one front with the east protected by the maginot line.
Problem was that german didn't play their game , and went through the Ardenne (wich the french thought to be impossible) then , they collapsed.

 

[Jules.lt]

You guys talk like you want to expand or conquer/vassalise... I really didn't apply the concept like that: I WB'd myself to be in the middle of 6 allied Evil AIs (2 orcs, 2 doviellos, 1 sheaim and 1 svart, + Hyborem eventually), with everyone having access to me and units flowing to my walls from turn 10 or something and increasing ever since

 

[Charlie_B]

How do you ever finish?

 

[Kenjister]

Wrong , french politican weren't that stupid
The purpose of the wall was to push the german to attack through belgium and wait them where the french wanted to hold them with their best division , keeping them in one front with the east protected by the maginot line.
Problem was that german didn't play their game , and went through the Ardenne (wich the french thought to be impossible) then , they collapsed.

I know, that was the simple version. I'm not a fan of how stupid the French are portrayed as being during WW2... the Germans were taking a HUGE gamble by going through the Ardennes, and could of horribly defeated if their troops hadn't moved fast enough. But it worked and their Panzer Divisions smashed straight into the French reservists and left the regulars scambling to pull back in time. Otherwise the principle behind the line was pretty solid, it only had one weak spot really, which the Germans managed to exploit.


Back on topic though, in my current game like this, I just managed to hold off a Sheaim attack for 150 turns or so with a TON of Archers promoted down the drill line. Defensive strikes every attack are amazing! I also had one uber-archer with Drill I-IV, Combat I-V, Fire Resistance, CG 1 and 2, Blitz, and Orthus' Axe. Sadly they all died when a Hippus stack (Tasunke) wiped out the Sheaim, and came at me. First strike immune units + Assasins made short work of my Archers. Even behind Hills, Walls and Palisades

 

[zup]

Off topic but related, would infernals make for a good occ civ? They can't build altar but they might eventually pull off conquest. Might depend heavily on how soon you get to 50 ac.

 

[Demus]

infernals are pretty much ruled out, since you can't start with them .

it's nice to see some deviations from the original survival concept. Basically, it was a duel / tiny pangea map, with 2-3 AI civs allied against you.

Personally, i usually start RoK, then shade bambur and arthendain later on and switch CoE for gibbon, shadows and shadow riders. GG is very useful as a support archmage, without deviating into the magic tree that much, and you should have 2 sources of shadow mana from your palace + the CoE shrine, so those shadow riders will be pretty solid.