Simply too imbalanced, spoilers include

On a brigth side, game never crash! I am really apriciate that, becaus esome game companies still produce product that crashh all the time.
Not completely true though. The game usually crashes for me if I put my computer in standby and resume it while I'm in full screen. But there is no problem if I tab out of the game before I put it in standby.

I'm happy to see that other people also share my view on the game and maybe they'll eventually fix it...
 
HISTORICLY seen the games balance is GREAT.

Sea blockade, strong open ground fights, no city defense (people inside being against u dont help u holding cities!), strong artilerie which doesnt help "in the woods".
And specialised rebel troops being great in crosscountry fight and finally just purly outnumbering REF forces.

As far as fighting is concerned I think you do have a point.

In fact I think part of the problem is that apparently the producers really did want the game to more closely resemble the historical background of the US War of Independence than the original game. To this end they adjusted some parts of the game but overdid it in some respects while totally omitting others. The end result is a game that is neither a real historical simulation (like say Sid's Gettysburg) nor a well balanced strategy game with good gameplay (like the original colonization).

Amongst others the issues that I mean are:

- Liberty Bells & Size of REF:

Historically this makes zero sense. The English didn't increase their army simply because people in the colonies were thinking about independence (which historically speaking very few people in the colonies did prior to late 1776 anyway). In fact the British were very loathsome to involve a bigger part of their army at all for most of the war which was one reason for the British loss.

- Lack of foreign interaction during the war:

Historically one of the main reasons for the American victory was that the colonists got major support from France and to a lesser degree from other European nations. Without the French the colonists would most likely have lost. This was also reflected in the original game since other nations would help you with troops. In this game once you declare independence you are totally on your own.

- Education:

How does it make sense that the time it takes to educate colonists increases with the number of colonists you trained earlier? This is neither historical nor does it make sense in terms of game play. If anything the colonies were able to train MORE specialists at LESS costs as time progressed while the game currently makes it almost impossible to train more than 5 or 6 specalists in your schools, colleges and universities.
 
Just wanted to comment/ask questions on a couple of issues you raise...

- Liberty Bells & Size of REF:

Historically this makes zero sense. The English didn't increase their army simply because people in the colonies were thinking about independence
(which historically speaking very few people in the colonies did prior to late 1776 anyway). In fact the British were very loathsome to involve a bigger part of their army at all for most of the war which was one reason for the British loss.

One effect of the liberty bell production on the size of the REF is that it encourages players to not produce any until the end....till they ramp up enough in order to survive...thus, de facto, following what you describe above...people not wanting to revolt till 1776. I agree that the REF feature is the one that feels most klunky to me...it'd be interesting to see alternatives...periodic shows of force by the mother country, different units (tax men) or something coming for visits, Tory spies, or something.

- Lack of foreign interaction during the war:

Historically one of the main reasons for the American victory was that the colonists got major support from France and to a lesser degree from other European nations. Without the French the colonists would most likely have lost. This was also reflected in the original game since other nations would help you with troops. In this game once you declare independence you are totally on your own.

So, are you implying then that communication should be open? I'm not sure how this would work given the mechanics of the game and the competition being other colonizers vying for the same land...although I can imagine France getting knocked out by Spain and then making a deal with Americans to support them...but stuff like that wouldn't happen every game. It'd give it more depth, though. Sometimes, I think that the problem with comparing this all to history is that history was just one specific game, whereas this allows for replayability in terms of unhistoric happenings.

I'm wondering if this game was 30 bucks because they didn't want to add those sorts of depth. Some people are talking about "sloppy programming" and I keep thinking this isn't a 50-60 dollar game. I can understand why people are complaining, though, because this isn't a game for newbs...Civ IV slowly ramped up the learning curve so you started with less to have to know and accrued knowledge and complexity. This game starts with all kinds of features that a player initially has no grasp of...it's game that expects you to be a gamer.
 
One effect of the liberty bell production on the size of the REF is that it encourages players to not produce any until the end....till they ramp up enough in order to survive...thus, de facto, following what you describe above...people not wanting to revolt till 1776. I agree that the REF feature is the one that feels most klunky to me...it'd be interesting to see alternatives...periodic shows of force by the mother country, different units (tax men) or something coming for visits, Tory spies, or something.

Actually historically it went the other way around. The British put ever more strain on the colonies to finance the British Army and as a result the resentment in the colonies grew. Actual calls for independence didn't come till after the siege of Boston didn't grow in force until the battles at Long Island.

As for the game....yes those periodic things would be a good way to spice up the game. In fact the financial demands by the king are somewhat supposed to be just that only it falls woefully short.

So, are you implying then that communication should be open? I'm not sure how this would work given the mechanics of the game and the competition being other colonizers vying for the same land...although I can imagine France getting knocked out by Spain and then making a deal with Americans to support them...but stuff like that wouldn't happen every game. It'd give it more depth, though. Sometimes, I think that the problem with comparing this all to history is that history was just one specific game, whereas this allows for replayability in terms of unhistoric happenings.

Have you played the original game? Back then once you declared for independence the other European nations would usually offer to support you with troops once you managed to produce a certain number of liberty bells. This was usually an essential part of the WoI because those troops could be very useful.

This is very much like what happened in reality. The French and other nations were at first tentative to support the colonies but once they saw that the colonies might actually stand a chance, they moved to support them. In the game this could be implemented via the liberty bells like in the original or it could be achieved by actually beating back the REF at one city or something like this.

It would especially make sense because for example if you could get your hands on foreign Man-o-Wars you might actually stand a realistic chance against the royal navy which right now you don't most of the time. Of course this has to be balanced not to make the game too easy, but IMO it worked brilliantly in the orignal so why shouldn't it do the same here?

I'm wondering if this game was 30 bucks because they didn't want to add those sorts of depth. Some people are talking about "sloppy programming" and I keep thinking this isn't a 50-60 dollar game. I can understand why people are complaining, though, because this isn't a game for newbs...Civ IV slowly ramped up the learning curve so you started with less to have to know and accrued knowledge and complexity. This game starts with all kinds of features that a player initially has no grasp of...it's game that expects you to be a gamer.

Actually I totally disagree. First of all this game was 30 bucks because essentially it is nothing more than a standalone mod for Civ IV. Some of the mods that are included in BtS are nearly as big as Colonization and you got them together with the AddOn.

As for why people are complaining: They aren't complaining because the game is too hard or too different from other games. They are complaining because there are things in this game that simply make no sense (education for example) and because unlike any other Civ game or the original colonization there is pretty much exactly ONE WAY to win all others simply don't work. That is frustrating to any veteran because that way the game is simply way too one dimensional and has nearly no replay value, something that has always been the great thing about Civ and Colonization.
 
My chief complaint is simply this:

It's rather obvious that a lot of design "decisions" that went into differentiating this game from the original Colonization aren't design decisions at all, but strictly workarounds the programmers came up with to make for Colonization-like gameplay within the existing CivIV engine.

And that concerns me, because those design differences are going to be the ones the modders have a very hard time getting around.

Personally, I was hoping for a near-verbatim port of the old game with a reskin and a multiplayer option.
 
My chief complaint is simply this:

It's rather obvious that a lot of design "decisions" that went into differentiating this game from the original Colonization aren't design decisions at all, but strictly workarounds the programmers came up with to make for Colonization-like gameplay within the existing CivIV engine.

And that concerns me, because those design differences are going to be the ones the modders have a very hard time getting around.

Personally, I was hoping for a near-verbatim port of the old game with a reskin and a multiplayer option.

Yup. So did I. We've been had.
 
My chief complaint is simply this:

It's rather obvious that a lot of design "decisions" that went into differentiating this game from the original Colonization aren't design decisions at all, but strictly workarounds the programmers came up with to make for Colonization-like gameplay within the existing CivIV engine.

And that concerns me, because those design differences are going to be the ones the modders have a very hard time getting around.

Personally, I was hoping for a near-verbatim port of the old game with a reskin and a multiplayer option.

Indeed.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 
god, give the poor sods who slaved over this game to make it for us some credit. they presented us with a game they thought was good enough to play and will no doubt incorporate everybodies feedback into the patches for the game. no need to vilify the poor souls before even patch fudging 1.0000000001 is out.... jebus!
 
god, give the poor sods who slaved over this game to make it for us some credit. they presented us with a game they thought was good enough to play and will no doubt incorporate everybodies feedback into the patches for the game. no need to vilify the poor souls before even patch fudging 1.0000000001 is out.... jebus!

They made a buggy, unfinished game and then sold it to people in order to exploit them as beta testers. They didn't "slave over the game" out of a saintly desire to Do Mankind Good.
 
My chief complaint is simply this:

It's rather obvious that a lot of design "decisions" that went into differentiating this game from the original Colonization aren't design decisions at all, but strictly workarounds the programmers came up with to make for Colonization-like gameplay within the existing CivIV engine.

And that concerns me, because those design differences are going to be the ones the modders have a very hard time getting around.

Personally, I was hoping for a near-verbatim port of the old game with a reskin and a multiplayer option.

I don't think the design "decisions" were made as a workaround for the CIV engine. It took me exactly one evening to implement a REF that grows with time instead of liberty bells, is difficulty dependent and makes the "win in 30 turns on revolutionary"-exploit impossible. It might not be perfectly balanced, but at least I don't think its fundamentally broken.

Sure, some of the things that were in Col 1 might be difficult to implement with the CIV engine. But the broken REF mechanism for example can only be explained by incompetence.
 
That's the problem - Civ4Col would have been a much better game if they had restricted themselves to doing just that!

Eaxtly. That + the better graphics + cultural borders + no longer removing one European competitor at a certain stage in the game + removing some bugs and the memory shortage, and we would have had a fantastic game.
 
On a brigth side, game never crash! I am really apriciate that, becaus esome game companies still produce product that crashh all the time.

Thats right, but it has a memory leak or something.
After I have played for a long time, it goes slower and slower.
Then i save and restart the game, its good and fast again. :rolleyes:
 
Yep, if they divert their forces you can take on smaller armies one at a time. If not, you can use a scorched earth strategy by expelling all colonists from the city leaving them almost no gain. When their main stack is gone you can take it back (I don't think any buildings are destroyed like the cultural ones in civ, so this is not a problem here)

Yes thats what i did in my last game.
Everyone was fighting! and they were fast as lightning! dudidudidudidu...

Pulled them all back to inland towns into jungles where friendly natives lived.
So the REF came after into jungles they lost many more units then, but they were too many for me, in the end they took it all. I think its because i pissed off the king too early in the game and had reached 50% rebel sentiment over long time and not declared independence at an early stage. His forces was like 100 soldiers 80 dragoons and 44 artilleries!! it kinda kills everything lol :lol:
 
I fought my independence only one time and I lost (but hey, it was my first time and I did a lot of things I shouldn't.) but i can see pretty much how easy it can be.

I'm not american, and I don't know much about their revolution, but I bet my balls that the colonists didn't have lots of dragoons divisions, wich are damn easy to get. Cannons too.

I can't say much because I gonna play it again right now, but theres one more thing. Did you guys noticed that the indepence bells icon is an early american flag? This game is totally completely based on what happened above Cuba and Mexico! You can't fight the REF the way Bolivar (the real one) did, I bet. I'm not complaining, but the historic facts that shook europe over in the reality should happen in the game, like an Bonaparte-like general attacking other countries. Let's say, instead of france, the Dutch attacked the hell of europe, and now the french colonies (and everybody else) are at stake.

Well, I can be talking shiat, but this game would be better if it were a LOT more randomized.

anyway, now I'll kick some REF asses. or not.
 
whoa, two-posted here, but this is dumb:

I started playing right after my previous post and found out on civilopedia that converted natives can't fight.

What the hell?

Lot's of Simon Bolivar's soldiers were natives! But none of the american colonists fought side-by-side with an apache.

Sid Meier's American Colonization, for sure!
 
whoa, two-posted here, but this is dumb:

I started playing right after my previous post and found out on civilopedia that converted natives can't fight.

What the hell?

Lot's of Simon Bolivar's soldiers were natives! But none of the american colonists fought side-by-side with an apache.

Sid Meier's American Colonization, for sure!
Guare, the beauty of thisgame is that it's so easily customizable. You want Converted Natives to be able to fight? Change it! It's not "Cheating", bro. It's changing a feature which you disapprove of in order to make the game beter simulate the historical reality you're thinking of.

I'm at work right now (on a break); I don't have access to the game, so I'll go off memory.

It's in the XML files; UnitInfos, i think. Find Converted Native in there, look for DefendOnly set to 1 (it's called something like that, you'll recognize it when you see it). Change it to Zero, to deactivate it. This will make your Convert able to fight same as any normal Colonist. You can change his combat values if you want, though I think they're set to 2 same as any colonist, and there's a FF you can get who will boost their combat strength to be the same as a free colonist soldier.

Most of what I see people complain about in this game is stuff they can change themselves. Do so. Learn how, if you need to. It's pretty simple stuff. I know, I'm basically computer illiterate yet I can tweak ostanything in the XML files... ;)
 
ahnn ok, I'm probably more illiterate than you, but I'll take a look on these xml.

But hey, i'm not complaining: If Sid farts and he calls it a game, you bet I'm playing it! I'm just appointing that when this game was made, they were thinking only about the american rev. I dunno. Maybe i'm complaining because they forgot the folks down here.

Bah, anyway, sorry if I sound so picky.
 
Öjevind Lång;7371754 said:
Eaxtly. That + the better graphics + cultural borders + the removal of one European competitor at a certain stage in the game + removing some bugs and the memory shortage, and we would have had a fantastic game.


Yes. The problem its that the original colo was a perfect and completely balanced game. I dont mind if they want to change some things, but i expected that they make some sense.

For example I cant understand the new Horse production system or the simplified terrain.

Also the ending was better on the original, I loved that photo with all the colonist and the scoring system where they give a name to something in your honor. When i finally won the independence war i expected someting more.
 
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