Slave skins

[Merum]

Because when he imagines a slave he thinks of a black person. Its not for historical accuracy.

It's not a history thing, or a racial thing. It's a context thing. When an American person thinks "Slave", the image that is conjured up is that of an African slave, because that is the context for slavery that our history gives us. I agree that the any slave unit put into the game though should have the same base skin color that the predominance of units have. Just thought I'd toss $0.02 into the kitty.

 

[LittleRedPoint]

I made white slave for people who don't want to use black one

Have fun!

 

[mayonaise]

some people are just wound so tight... how do you even make it through a day. you can find racism and discrimination in anything if you try

 

[Felzor]

LittleRedPoint that skin is awesome. Thanks so much for making the white one. I think that really adds a touch of respect, some historical accuracy, not to mention that a white slave can be used in waaaaay more mods than a black one No more complaints on my end.

As for mayonaise, it's not racism or discrimination per se (I'm sure nobody on this forum considers himself/herself to be racist), it's more about engraved culturual stereotypes and privilege. It's no different than if you were to go to a shopping mall. If you thought a black person was following you around, you might be pretty scared--but a white person following you around? Then it must be a coincidence. A lot of blacks have to deal with those issues everyday because of stereotypes that surround them, but whites don't. In the same way, no white would ever have to worry about the color of the units in Civ IV because whites can be guarenteed that, wherever they go, their cultural group will be represented, and in a positve light at that.

Thanks LRP.

ﻢﻜﻴﻠﻋ ﻢﻼﺴﻟﺍ

 

[mrkingkong]

As for mayonaise, it's not racism or discrimination per se (I'm sure nobody on this forum considers himself/herself to be racist), it's more about engraved culturual stereotypes and privilege. It's no different than if you were to go to a shopping mall. If you thought a black person was following you around, you might be pretty scared--but a white person following you around? Then it must be a coincidence. A lot of blacks have to deal with those issues everyday because of stereotypes that surround them, but whites don't. In the same way, no white would ever have to worry about the color of the units in Civ IV because whites can be guarenteed that, wherever they go, their cultural group will be represented, and in a positve light at that.
[/SIZE]

Hey, if somebody was following me around the mall, id be scared no matter what colour they were!

On the other hand, i think people perhaps take racism too far when extending into computer games. It may be that a lot of Americans, Brits or whatever think of black, African slaves when they hear the word Slave. I dont see why this should cause offence. It isnt as though the people are saying "You're black and so are a slave" or "You're black and the first thing i think about you is that you should be a slave", it is that historically the first picture received in education is that when the british empire colonised Africa, thousands of black people were taken as slaves to work in America. And this is learned in History classes in Britain, and im sure this is the case in USA also. They dont learn about cases where anyone else is taken as slaves, although throughout history slaves have been any nationality and creed. This is why they think of slaves, and it triggers there memory of History class and the British Empire. This, not the fact that someone is racist, is why the stereotype of slaves being black exists.

 

[Seven05]

When an American person thinks "Slave", the image that is conjured up is that of an African slave...

And where in America is the original poster from? Aw crap, that's not in America

And honestly, my first visual of a slave is from africa, but not black. Perhaps it's my own personal intrests in different eras of history, but when I think of a slave the first thing that pops into my mind are the poor guys pushing tons of rock up a hill to make the worlds largest tombstone. Oddly enough, the original worker fits that bill ok for me, but then that would mean all of the workers in the game (until the graphic changes) are slaves. Hmm, perhaps they are, after all you take them from one of your cities and make them build things for what seems like an eternity, maybe they don't want that farm that you're making them spend 200 years on

 

[Kael]

Who knew unit creation in Civ4 could lead to a sociological debate on race issues. Is there anything this game cant do?


ps. (yeah thats right i used the sideways smiley, im old school!)

 

[mrkingkong]

And where in America is the original poster from? Aw crap, that's not in America

And honestly, my first visual of a slave is from africa, but not black. Perhaps it's my own personal intrests in different eras of history, but when I think of a slave the first thing that pops into my mind are the poor guys pushing tons of rock up a hill to make the worlds largest tombstone. Oddly enough, the original worker fits that bill ok for me, but then that would mean all of the workers in the game (until the graphic changes) are slaves. Hmm, perhaps they are, after all you take them from one of your cities and make them build things for what seems like an eternity, maybe they don't want that farm that you're making them spend 200 years on

Hehe thats a good point. Liberation for the Civ workers!

mrkingkong

 

[Paccali]

Excellent skin! Would do great for a Civil War mod, otherwise its uses are limited. From what I recall, historically slaves outside of the United States weren't exclusively black.

There were thousands of white slaves in the south, too. Its a shame that they don't teach that little tid-bit.

 

[Master Lexx]

I included slaves as a ressource in GreenMod 1.50 but removed in 1.60 because people didn´t liked them. And i also have an Inquisitor unit, maybe i take your skins. Nice idea

 

[Wyz_sub10]

There were thousands of white slaves in the south, too. Its a shame that they don't teach that little tid-bit.

White slaves were generally products of mixed relationships or those thought to have black ancestry. In other words, they were considered "black."

But certainly people of all races have been enslaved.

 

[LittleRedPoint]

I included slaves as a ressource in GreenMod 1.50 but removed in 1.60 because people didn´t liked them. And i also have an Inquisitor unit, maybe i take your skins. Nice idea

Well, it depends what functions you add for slave. I use a lot:
1. Hurry production +25 hammers
2. Trade mission +25 gold - act as great merchant, go to other city and sell them
3. great work - +15 culture, i use this because i don't know how to make sacrifice event jet.

I tried your mod and i like it. I'm working on new civics and i added new religion option Blood cult. The idea of inquisition -4 happy and what lasts 8 turn. Gave me idea how to make sacrifice slave.

The idea is:
if player civic is Blood Cult then slave can build Sacrifice slave what consumes the slave. Sacrifice building lasts 4 turns and gives +4 happy with Blood Cult and generates +4 culture. Maybe +2 exp also. It will be powerful building but to balance it you need slaves to sacrifice to keep the advantage.
It is like Atzecs blood cult then

 

[AngryPants]

There were thousands of white slaves in the south, too. Its a shame that they don't teach that little tid-bit.

A few items on slavery, since I agree that education on the topic is woefully inadequate in my country, at least the part where i went to high school.
1. There were slaves in the north as well, just not as many, and for not as long. Also, the afore-mentioned "white slaves"(not including "mixed" folks) were generally known as "indentured servants". The "master" paid for their passage over here, in exchange the man was essentially a slave for a set period of time, usually 7 years. IF the indentured servant survived the 7 years, the master had to provide him with land and such. This was a pretty good deal for the slave "owner" at the start of colonization, as the vast majority of the indentured servants died before their time was up, thus sparing the master the expense of providing land for newly freed indentured servants. After a while, more and more of the indentured servants, began to survive, and the whole arrangement became less profitable for the landed elite. Also, the newly freed servants didn't get along so well with their recent "owners"(ex: Bacon's Rebellion). So, they came up with a new arrangement, importing slaves from Africa. These unfortunate people were held for life, as were any children they had. This system is what most americans think of when they hear the word "slavery". There were also attempts to enslave the Native Americans, but they tended to to run away or die of disease. Thus, most Americans(blacks included) picture a black person when they hear the word "slave". This doesn't make us racist, it just means we know something about our history. Other people who might picture black slaves, would be the black Africans who sold other black Africans to the white fellows with the boats. People don't like to hear it in America, but we were only new customers in the whole evil business. We weren't even the worst ones, if such a thing is thinkable. Picking cotton for $0 an hour truly sucks, but getting literally worked to death on a sugar plantation in colonial Brazil is worse(slavery legal until 1888!), and getting hunted for sport in Congo by the King of Belgium is probably worst of all. Of course, in Europe, they might think of all those people the Romans captured and abused, or perhaps rowers on Turkish galleys, or Jews in the Nazi death camps, or all those people Stalin sent to the Gulag.
2. Thanks for making the slave unit, it brings a Civil War scenario that much closer to reality.
3. Don't complain about the Scout being Native American. If Firaxis makes him Native American, people will whine that he's a racist caricature(which he isn't. If the unit was called a "Savage", came with a free "scalping" promotion and could build casino's instead of cottages, then you would have a point.). If Firaxis makes all the units white, then some cry "racist" because Civ4 is "non-inclusive" or "Euro-centric" or some such nonsense.

 

[Dend05]

A few items on slavery, since I agree that education on the topic is woefully inadequate in my country, at least the part where i went to high school.
1. There were slaves in the north as well, just not as many, and for not as long. Also, the afore-mentioned "white slaves"(not including "mixed" folks) were generally known as "indentured servants". The "master" paid for their passage over here, in exchange the man was essentially a slave for a set period of time, usually 7 years. IF the indentured servant survived the 7 years, the master had to provide him with land and such. This was a pretty good deal for the slave "owner" at the start of colonization, as the vast majority of the indentured servants died before their time was up, thus sparing the master the expense of providing land for newly freed indentured servants. After a while, more and more of the indentured servants, began to survive, and the whole arrangement became less profitable for the landed elite. Also, the newly freed servants didn't get along so well with their recent "owners"(ex: Bacon's Rebellion). So, they came up with a new arrangement, importing slaves from Africa. These unfortunate people were held for life, as were any children they had. This system is what most americans think of when they hear the word "slavery". There were also attempts to enslave the Native Americans, but they tended to to run away or die of disease. Thus, most Americans(blacks included) picture a black person when they hear the word "slave". This doesn't make us racist, it just means we know something about our history. Other people who might picture black slaves, would be the black Africans who sold other black Africans to the white fellows with the boats. People don't like to hear it in America, but we were only new customers in the whole evil business. We weren't even the worst ones, if such a thing is thinkable. Picking cotton for $0 an hour truly sucks, but getting literally worked to death on a sugar plantation in colonial Brazil is worse(slavery legal until 1888!), and getting hunted for sport in Congo by the King of Belgium is probably worst of all. Of course, in Europe, they might think of all those people the Romans captured and abused, or perhaps rowers on Turkish galleys, or Jews in the Nazi death camps, or all those people Stalin sent to the Gulag.
2. Thanks for making the slave unit, it brings a Civil War scenario that much closer to reality.
3. Don't complain about the Scout being Native American. If Firaxis makes him Native American, people will whine that he's a racist caricature(which he isn't. If the unit was called a "Savage", came with a free "scalping" promotion and could build casino's instead of cottages, then you would have a point.). If Firaxis makes all the units white, then some cry "racist" because Civ4 is "non-inclusive" or "Euro-centric" or some such nonsense.

Lets be real though, there are millions of things eurocentric in the US ( see friends), if civ was also no one would care...... I think either make em all white or add flavour, dont just throw in races where they fit in -.-

and the fact that he isnt even from america makes it hilarious XD

 

[AngryPants]

Hey, didn't Ross date/attempt to date a Black lady on Friends?(I recall her being reasonably hot) Anyway, I'm all for flavored unit sets. All asian, all black, all native american unit sets would be cool, since firaxis has all/mostly white covered. I'm also surprised that my number 3 didn't draw any complaints.

 

[LittleRedPoint]

Well my nation was enslaved for centuries 1224-1815. We got independence in 1920 after independence war and were slaves of russians again 1945-1990 as all other East-Europeans. So that "black" and "white" racism really sucks! Thare are slavery in africa today! My slave skins are not made in racist purpose they are just option for people who want to have slaves in their games.

 

[Dend05]

Well my nation was enslaved for centuries 1224-1815. We got independence in 1920 after independence war and were slaves of russians again 1945-1990 as all other East-Europeans. So that "black" and "white" racism really sucks! Thare are slavery in africa today! My slave skins are not made in racist purpose they are just option for people who want to have slaves in their games.

i dont think anyone is offended we are just discussing the fact that everything in game is white, than we get black slaves

 

[TheJopa]

OK my two cents.
Anyone remembers slaves from civ3 (with conquests)? You could get them after you capture enemy worker, or if specific unit wins battle (Mayan skirimisher, for instance). I like slave capturing promotion, in fact it isn't too hard to make since I already saw similar promotion in one mod, which alowed scouts to capture animals («Fall from heaven» mod) Also slaves in civ 3 were working at 50% speed, but they had no support cost. Both things can be set in UnitInfos.xml Then, I would like ability to put slave in city, to improve production. This would be easy to implement, just use script which alows great people to be put into cities, and give it to slave. Slaves would add a few hammers to city production, maybe even food. Emancipation civic would turn all slave workers in regular ones, and slave specialists in normal citizens (If it is impossible to turn specialists in citizens, then just make them dissapear) Slavery civic would give all newly built units slave capturing 1 promotion, or increase slaves work rate to 100%.
Any comments?

 

[LittleRedPoint]

Hm this is interestin idea. In my mod if you have civic Slavery then you have 30% chance to het slave from battle. Iust need to add another condition to EventManager.py

 

[TheJopa]

Well, go ahead if you can. I'm creating one mod right now, so I suppose I could use your script