Slavery

[JulesDogg]

I have never really taken advantage of the slavery civic but it's becoming clear that whipping is commonly used.

Could one or two of you civfanatics please explain the ins and outs of slavery so that I can use it to good effect on my next monarch game

 

[JulesDogg]

I like corps and often go for Sid's Sushi and Civilised Jewellers.

One question: I always build Civilised Jewellers in my Wall Street city. Should I build Sid's Sushi in another location because it costs the HQ city?

 

[JulesDogg]

Any help much appreciated

 

[Iranon]

Efficient use of slavery is a rather complex topic that can't be answered quickly. The War Academy (Under Civilization 4 in the Navigation line, second option) has some good entries.

'Vocum Sineratio: The Whip' under Empire Management is a decent starting point that links to other helpful threads.

 

[LegionSteve]

The article Iranon mentioned on whipping is very very good.

A few quick points on whipping though:

1) There is a penalty (reduced number of hammers per whipped person) for whipping when you haven't put in any hammers yet. So it's usually worth working on something for 1 turn and then whipping it.

2) There is also a penalty for whipping wonders but it is still worthwhile sometimes, specially if you are industrious and/or have the resource.

3) You only get 1 per whip no matter how many people got whipped. This means it is better to whip one big thing then let your population grow back, rather than do lots of little whips. E.G. you build a barracks then whip out 3 axemen, you get 3, if you whip the barracks then build the axemen without whipping you get 1.

One question: I always build Civilised Jewellers in my Wall Street city. Should I build Sid's Sushi in another location because it costs the HQ city?

Not totally sure what you mean, but if you are going to found 2 corps you should always found them both in your WS city if you can.

 

[CoZe]

whipping also works better for small cities. Keep in mind that you'll need more food to get back the whipped citizen when your population increases. Don't use whipping too much on bigger cities. I usually use whipping to propel developing cities.

 

[champ82]

Whipping is quite complex and I am no expert but if you have a city with a lot of food but not much hammers it can be great. It can also be great to whip courthouses in all your cities at once – instant economic rebound.

 

[OJimiJam]

Another couple of things to think about:

1) Whipping is modified by hammer multipliers (eg. organised religion and forges). Whpping a forge is often a good idea, the happiness penalty is normally negated and it makes later whips cost less pop/whip bigger things.

2) While whipping a wonder incurs a penalty no such penalty applies to overflow hammers. The example i used most is when building the Great Lighthouse. If you whip the lighthouse at 29/60 hammers and next turn start the the GLH you will have 29 hammers already invested.

3) This overflow can also be used to make a civs cheap buildings faster. Expansive leaders get 100% bonus to granaries, so whipping a 29/30 monument into a granary means it can often be finished immediately.

 

[JulesDogg]

Thanks for all the info folks, very useful.

 

[ventrue]

I try to whip libraries, courthouses, forges and marketplaces and then go into caste system as soon as possible.

I usually chop/whip a wonder or two also, usually Stonehenge, The Oracle or The Pyramids.

 

[kudlaty]

I used not to whip and I was loosing. now I whip and I win from time to time (prince).

I whip especially in early game to get units quickly.

 

[Solomwi]

I like corps and often go for Sid's Sushi and Civilised Jewellers.

One question: I always build Civilised Jewellers in my Wall Street city. Should I build Sid's Sushi in another location because it costs the HQ city?

The maintenance cost of a corporation, as far as I know, is the same in a given city whether it's the headquarters or a branch. On the benefit side, headquarters income, which grows with every branch founded, is only doubled in a normal city maxed out with gold modifiers (ignoring UBs like the forge, mall or stock market), but tripled in a city with the same modifiers plus Wall Street. Unless there's some very strong reason you don't want a particular corporation in your WS city at all, a situation I've never seen but will allow is possible, or you're founding a corporation that competes with one already in your WS city, it's always best to HQ all your corporations there.

 

[Monsterzuma]

Whipping away pop points that were grown with the help of a granary means you convert food to hammers at a rate of roughly 1F -> 2H. This is very efficient and must be made use of at as many as possible occasions.

Whipping pre-granary is efficient at pop 2 (0.7F -> 1H), but of an efficiency comparable to building Settlers/Workers using food at pop 4 and higher. I find that the latter technique is more versatile in this case, as it allows you to use both hammers and food on the same build, meaning you can produce with an incredible focus, which is good when Settlers/Workers are the main priority (which, in turn, they pretty much always are). It also does not come with any restrictive happiness penalties.

 

[Davor]

I find out if I have Unhappy cities, say like 3 or 4 unhappiness, I will whip them, to teach them a lesson of who is in charge, and the unhappy people are gone, except for the 1 unhappy person because I whipped.

 

[Supr49er]

JulesDogg:

Regarding, Corporation placement, I agree with Solomwi. Put them in your Wall Street city.

You can put these four Corporations there:

• Aluminum Co
• Civilized Jewelers
• Creative Constructions
• Sid's Sushi OR Cereal Mills

 

[ventrue]

A couple of times, I have lost out on building a wonder by 1 or 2 turns. Usually, with my luck, I am able to whip a wonder just as the computer finishes building it. Normally, I will mumble a few curse words and press enter. Next turn will prompt you to build something else and you get some gold for whatever production you had.

Today, I went ahead and whipped the wonder anyway, after it was built by the computer. It seemed like I got a few more hundred gold than normal for the Colossus. I don't know what the calculations were for doing this, so I could be just crazy or dumb.

 

[Cashew]

Another couple of things to think about:

1) Whipping is modified by hammer multipliers (eg. organised religion and forges). Whpping a forge is often a good idea, the happiness penalty is normally negated and it makes later whips cost less pop/whip bigger things.

2) While whipping a wonder incurs a penalty no such penalty applies to overflow hammers. The example i used most is when building the Great Lighthouse. If you whip the lighthouse at 29/60 hammers and next turn start the the GLH you will have 29 hammers already invested.

3) This overflow can also be used to make a civs cheap buildings faster. Expansive leaders get 100% bonus to granaries, so whipping a 29/30 monument into a granary means it can often be finished immediately.

Actually you would have at least 30 hammers into the GLH because the hammers you get are the hammers for the population you slaved as well as the the hammers from the tiles you will still be working (and every city makes at least 1 hammer a turn). It's a subtle point to note, but since you will occasionally have to worry about having too many overflow hammers it's important to keep track of this so hammers don't become gold (unless you want them to for some reason).

 

[PieceOfMind]

A couple of times, I have lost out on building a wonder by 1 or 2 turns. Usually, with my luck, I am able to whip a wonder just as the computer finishes building it. Normally, I will mumble a few curse words and press enter. Next turn will prompt you to build something else and you get some gold for whatever production you had.

Today, I went ahead and whipped the wonder anyway, after it was built by the computer. It seemed like I got a few more hundred gold than normal for the Colossus. I don't know what the calculations were for doing this, so I could be just crazy or dumb.

I'd say this would be because you got the gold for the production you put towards the wonder (the full amount and this would have been reported in the event log) and then plus some gold for overflow perhaps? Getting overflow sounds unlikely to me but I'd say you just got more gold than you're used to because you would have got the full amount rather than say 90% or so that you'd normally get.

 

[InigoMontoya]

I find whipping is good to finish up something if you want to get to work on something else, or if a city's population is getting too high to feed, you whip them to death instead of starving them. If they have to die, might as well build me a courthouse.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I know I've said this before, but I really find it unfortunate that the earliest and most essential civic is also one of the most complicated. That's not newbie-friendly at all. But yes, there are articles around that deal with the mathematics of slavery.

However, I believe that the OP is talking about running Sid's Sushi and slavery at the same time. Other than the very strange mental picture of feeding slaves Japanese sushi to ensure they breed quickly, and then working them to death, I would say that by the time the game reaches that stage, slavery is clearly not efficient anymore.