Small mafia game: Qarth

[Jarrema]

Some discussion:
1. Daenerys

Spoiler :

I think JoanK deserves apologies from me. Daenerys was destined to lose from the beginning.
It was my fault. Fact was that Daenerys was the only person not being part of any group. And Visor used this knowledge to determine who Daenerys is. Of course, I can only congratulate Visor for good use of reasoning, but as a host I should not allow this situation to happen.
As JoanK put it:

I mean I'm sorry, this game could have been great, but if absolutely everybody pertains to a guild except Daenerys how were you expecting me to survive more than two rounds?

. I can only say you were right, JoanK. It was even worse: there were scans to determine if someone is in cult (and there were no scans for being mafia)
I think Daenerys was quite balanced in the first version of this game.It was firs made for 20 players, than for 17, and finally for 15. And each time I reduced number of characters, I throw away someone who was not part of any group. For 20 players, there would be (in addition to what you have seen in this game): two sorrowfull men, each trying to kill more targets than second one, each attacking every second day; one pureborn, two members of Civic Guard with ability to track at night. None of this players would know any other. It would mean that there would be at least 6 players not being members of any 'mason-like' group. It would be really easier for Danny. And her abilities were not weak (3 conversions, 3 possible night attacks, possibly 3 additional 'lives').
In this particular game, Danny was also unlucky. First conversion attempt was against one of 5 unconvertable targets. From the host's perspective, I can only imagine how the game could develop if Danny recruited Visor night 1 or two (Visor never used his guild ability, contrary to what he claimed).

2. Last night

Spoiler :

Last night was tense.
Mafia had to kill right guy. And town had at its disposal: protector, AND unused ability to protect whole Thirteen – Visor could use it to protect himself. As it turns out, mafia picked the only 100% guaranteed target (Mat cannot protect himself...)

3. Mafia balance, and why no reveal

Spoiler :

Some people were expecting 2 mafia players, not 3. Well, in a game for 15 players it would be resonable. Especially when said mafia was not revealed at death.
BUUUT:
(a) cult has ability to kill mafia at night (less important than other points)
(b) town had roleblocker AND protector who were MASON pair (powerful, isn't it?)
(c) not only that, 3 merchant groups had ability (in hands of their leaders) to make whole groups protected against night actions
(d) and there was one mafia in every trade group. I was afraid, that after killing first mafia or two town will realize this setup. And there would be group of confirmed townies (merchant groups who already killed 'their' mafioso). Hence, no reveal at death

 

[Buddhafish]

VICTORY!!!!

Congrats to Visor, Mat, and BSmith. I thought you all played a very good game. Definately better than me.

Thanks for the game Jarrema!

 

[BSmith1068]

Crap. Well, at least our blocking and protecting was quite effective. I guess you didn't fall for the fake argument?

 

[Buddhafish]

Mat's PMs?

I figured it was a bit odd that he was a "middleman" between the Undying and the town. I almost bought that you were the protector, but the turnaround was so fast that I knew you had to be the blocker. I thought that NC might have been Undying, but I wasn't sure.

Did you actually suspect Visor Mat?

 

[BSmith1068]

To be fair, our orders were in our QT, and if I were the protector I would still have posted about people being blocked. The timing would have been the same.

Read our QT and you can see that we never 100% trusted Visor (paranoia runs deep!), but were pretty certain of his loyalty since neither one of us died early on. Visor knew we were masons and our roles (just maybe not who was who) quite early. He also knew that we couldn't protect ourselves. There was nothing to gain for him by keeping us around that long if he was scum.

 

[cardith_lorda]

What was the ability that Visor didn't use? We used our protection the first night and scanned JoanK soon after.

 

[Visorslash]

Damn. That is disappointing. JoanK got extremely unlucky.

SouthernKing should have been Wogged.

Good game Buddhafish and the scums. Thanks for the game jarrema, definitely a little unbalanced, I will post my full thoughts later.

@ Cardith

I lied to you guys, so I could save it for a later situation.

 

[Buddhafish]

True. I'm surprised Visor said he used the ability N1. That was an interesting play.

 

[Buddhafish]

And Visor, I agree that SK should have been WOGged. He didn't show up after D1.

 

[Visorslash]

True. I'm surprised Visor said he used the ability N1. That was an interesting play.

As above, I lied. Was waiting to save it for a lylo situation, or if mat had died.

 

[Mat93]

Mat's PMs?

I figured it was a bit odd that he was a "middleman" between the Undying and the town. I almost bought that you were the protector, but the turnaround was so fast that I knew you had to be the blocker. I thought that NC might have been Undying, but I wasn't sure.

Did you actually suspect Visor Mat?

Nope. Main reason was to keep us both alive...we didn't think SK was scum, thats why we lost mainly.


We almost 100% knew it was you as scum after Sams lynch. Unfortunately there was no WoG on SK, but oh well.

 

[Buddhafish]

Yeah, well after Sam died it was kill and win, so I didn't care what you thought about me.

Then you scared me a bit into thinking that you were the blocker. It was a bit of a mind game, but in the end it worked out for me.

 

[robbiecon]

That was actually a brilliant tactic Visorslash and Mat93. I was gonna give some post dead advice to Buddhafish to not kill anyone, because I felt the lynch was gonna be too easy with you guys quarrelling.

Well played, we definitely got lucky, certainly with SK not being WOG'd.

 

[Buddhafish]

Oh. THAT fake argument.

I was really about to not kill, but I figured that I'd rather have the game won or lost by my own hand.

 

[Mat93]

Oh. THAT fake argument.

I was really about to not kill, but I figured that I'd rather have the game won or lost by my own hand.

Yeah, that one as well as my PMs. Nearly worked, unfortunately not quite.

 

[Visorslash]

Personally, I feel the game would be more balanced, with the scums randomised throughout the guild, not placed 1 in each. That way there is no way to 'confirm' townies. Though I'm not necessarily a big fan of a guild system in a small games.

Joan was screwed from the start as elaborated earlier. Should've either put her in a guild or had less members per guild (only 3 and left the extras as members outside of guilds). Other then that, the role seems fairly well balanced?

3 mafia was a bit much Imo, with the possibilty of a strong cult, and 15 players. The inactivity of SK brought it back a bit, I still feel it was unbalanced. Not to say that the scums didn't do badly or anything though, they played well. Reveal on death keeps it interesting, and I feel if the scums roles weren't just 'placed' it would be better. Your view may differ, just my opinion.

Otherwise, we relied a bit too much on abilities rather then looking at votes and we really stifled discussion which was a bit disappointing. Regardless, was good fun working with Mat and Bsmith, apologies to topsecret for lynching you, and thanks to both topsecret and ninja for working with me in the start. Cardith, I have a habit of thinking new players (or at least ones I haven't played with before) quite scummy, so sorry for that one.

Almost won it, but alas, anyway thanks for the game jarrema.

 

[Mat93]

As above, I lied. Was waiting to save it for a lylo situation, or if mat had died.

How many times did you claim to use it? lol

That was actually a brilliant tactic Visorslash and Mat93. I was gonna give some post dead advice to Buddhafish to not kill anyone, because I felt the lynch was gonna be too easy with you guys quarrelling.

Well played, we definitely got lucky, certainly with SK not being WOG'd.

Almost worked, and worth trying...also tried to get Buddha to target Ninja too, but we would of lost that way as well.

And I'd agree you got some luck, but played well too.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Although it was a bit unbalanced for JoanK, that was a fun game regardless. Anyway, now everyone should join my game!

 

[Jarrema]

thanks for playing!

also, thanks for discussion, I appreciate your arguments. As for cult... it was certainly unbalanced and I know it