Small Observations General Thread (things not worth separate threads)

[AriochIV]

Actually we've only seen antiquity era. Exploration and Modern eras could have additional ways to expand territory and grab resources.

Not the most compelling evidence to be presented here, I'm sorry to say.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Not the most compelling evidence to be presented here, I'm sorry to say.

It's not an evidence, just thoughts.

There's a problem. If you place cities with some distance between them and if later resources are not visible on the map until specific tech, it's possible some valuable resources will be unreachable. In previous civs it was possible for city to spread influence outside base tiles and thus you were able to connect those resources. If in Civ7 3-tile distance is strict and districts are the only way to grab resources, those resources would be unreachable.

So, I guess Firaxis have solution for this problem in mind. Although not necessary, maybe the answer is just "build settlements closer".

 

[Krikkit1]

It's not an evidence, just thoughts.

There's a problem. If you place cities with some distance between them and if later resources are not visible on the map until specific tech, it's possible some valuable resources will be unreachable. In previous civs it was possible for city to spread influence outside base tiles and thus you were able to connect those resources. If in Civ7 3-tile distance is strict and districts are the only way to grab resources, those resources would be unreachable.

So, I guess Firaxis have solution for this problem in mind. Although not necessary, maybe the answer is just "build settlements closer".

One solution could be just put a “town” near it. The settlement limit will be higher in later ages and there may be more types of settlements for resource collection.

 

[stealth_nsk]

One solution could be just put a “town” near it. The settlement limit will be higher in later ages and there may be more types of settlements for resource collection.

Yeah, that's one thing I was thinking about. There could be some form of outposts grabbing land. Those outposts could be some new variant for settlements, some town specialization or just a new thing altogether.

 

[chaosprophet]

One solution could be just put a “town” near it. The settlement limit will be higher in later ages and there may be more types of settlements for resource collection.

Although not necessary, maybe the answer is just "build settlements closer".

One problem with those solutions is that so far we saw both cities and towns growing very fast, with big city numbers even by end of antiquity. If you can easily cover all your workable tiles with rural or urban districts, that would mean you would want to avoid having cities which share workable tiles more than previous games. So a solution that is outside city or towns is more likely to be better and I would expect there to exist some later on. This also makes me wonder about mountains... Any chance there is a later game improvement that can be put on them or some other way of using them? otherwise you would want to avoid them a lot more than before, maybe only in a settlement you're pretty much sure you won't want to turn into a city eventually, like maybe a border defensive town.

 

[stealth_nsk]

One problem with those solutions is that so far we saw both cities and towns growing very fast, with big city numbers even by end of antiquity. If you can easily cover all your workable tiles with rural or urban districts, that would mean you would want to avoid having cities which share workable tiles more than previous games. So a solution that is outside city or towns is more likely to be better and I would expect there to exist some later on. This also makes me wonder about mountains... Any chance there is a later game improvement that can be put on them or some other way of using them? otherwise you would want to avoid them a lot more than before, maybe only in a settlement you're pretty much sure you won't want to turn into a city eventually, like maybe a border defensive town.

1. I'm pretty sure the growth will be much slower later. We could also see some changes to this in later eras
2. With Han Great Wall you surely want to build settlements near so you could build Great Wall between them

 

[queenpea]

Yeah, that's one thing I was thinking about. There could be some form of outposts grabbing land. Those outposts could be some new variant for settlements, some town specialization or just a new thing altogether.

Maybe merchant units (or something similar to a military engineer but with a dev focus) can use a special ability to develop resources which are unreachable by city borders?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Maybe merchant units (or something similar to a military engineer but with a dev focus) can use a special ability to develop resources which are unreachable by city borders?

If I recall, they highlighted this in Civ 3's retrospective video didn't they?

 

[pokiehl]

No, this isn't correct. Please see these screenshots.

1st screenshot: current border is pink
2nd screenshot: player builds on top of orange hex
3rd screenshot: new borders are red, development has bombed adjacent tiles. City has expanded to four tiles.

Those tiles are still 3 away from the city center.

 

[queenpea]

Those tiles are still 3 away from the city center.

LOL, you're right. I need more coffee.

 

[pokiehl]

LOL, you're right. I need more coffee.

Something about hexes sometimes makes judging those distances hard. I’ve made the same mistake myself a few times looking at Civ 7 images.

 

[queenpea]

Something about hexes sometimes makes judging those distances hard. I’ve made the same mistake myself a few times looking at Civ 7 images.

Thank you for your grace and compassion

 

[chaosprophet]

1. I'm pretty sure the growth will be much slower later. We could also see some changes to this in later eras

At least working only three tiles seems to be the full game otherwise when they answered on the stream they would say it can vary later.

Even if you just look at how they grew at antiquity, and expect that while it may get really harder to grow over those numbers, it still probably be the same or easier to get settlements on same size on following ages as yields on rural districts keeps improving with new tech (and no indication these are reset at new age), while new building probably as good or better than the earlier age buildings when at their full power at least (otherwise you would get a problem where newer settlements would have a lot less value as they can't even hope to catch up to older settlements in growing speed, possibly creating a better tactic to grow as wide as you can on antiquity).

Regardless, from what we can watch on the stream from this point on: Roma is 32 and Rouen (previous named Puteoli) is 28. While that is shorter than the 37 needed to work all the 36 workable tiles, because you trade some rural districts to urban districts and monuments, at 32 roma would be big enough to already have covered all it's tiles and have some pops as specialists, while Rouen could have covered all at that size if it has at least 9 tiles are urban or wonders.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Remember how they've said that the map expands with each age?

We know how that happens Antiquity to Exploration. New World.

Doesn't make any sense Exploration to Modern.

Unless . . .

Starting in Modern, you can grow UP. Skyscrapers. Effectively giving a city new "tiles" in a vertical direction.

 

[humble serf]

Remember how they've said that the map expands with each age?

We know how that happens Antiquity to Exploration. New World.

Doesn't make any sense Exploration to Modern.

Unless . . .

Starting in Modern, you can grow UP. Skyscrapers. Effectively giving a city new "tiles" in a vertical direction.

My guess is that the “new world” region starts off with an inaccessible interior which doesn’t open up until the Modern Era, allowing the game to model things like the Scramble for Africa, the settlement of Australia and Patagonia, Manifest Destiny, etc.

 

[stealth_nsk]

My guess is that the “new world” region starts off with an inaccessible interior which doesn’t open up until the Modern Era, allowing the game to model things like the Scramble for Africa, the settlement of Australia and Patagonia, Manifest Destiny, etc.

In theory I could imagine some impassable tiles (i.e. Jungle), which become passable as era changes. But I don't think anything points to that direction now, as we have all major biomes passable and I doubt mountains will be used to create inaccessible areas.

More likely it will have something to do with independent powers and/or strong urge to liberate your colonies. But honestly, it's hard to guess.

 

[humble serf]

In theory I could imagine some impassable tiles (i.e. Jungle), which become passable as era changes. But I don't think anything points to that direction now, as we have all major biomes passable and I doubt mountains will be used to create inaccessible areas.

More likely it will have something to do with independent powers and/or strong urge to liberate your colonies. But honestly, it's hard to guess.

The devs have stated that the map physically expands. The tiles won’t be impassable in Exploration, they simply “won’t exist” until the era transition, just like the new world itself doesn’t exist in Antiquity.

 

[stealth_nsk]

The devs have stated that the map physically expands. The tiles won’t be impassable in Exploration, they simply “won’t exist” until the era transition, just like the new world itself doesn’t exist in Antiquity.

1. I could imagine map expanding on oceans, but the map expanding land masses would break the game
2. The new world actually exists in antiquity. During livestream developers confirm what civilizations of the new world play and could beat you in wonder race

 

[chaosprophet]

Remember how they've said that the map expands with each age?

We know how that happens Antiquity to Exploration. New World.

Doesn't make any sense Exploration to Modern.

Unless . . .

Starting in Modern, you can grow UP. Skyscrapers. Effectively giving a city new "tiles" in a vertical direction.

One idea I saw being used is the poles being accessible on modern age. Also could see mountains having a different effect on modern as they become more accessible than before with the creation of flight.

The devs have stated that the map physically expands. The tiles won’t be impassable in Exploration, they simply “won’t exist” until the era transition, just like the new world itself doesn’t exist in Antiquity.

But also said that civs on that other part of the world would be doing things there just like the ones playing on your side, also being able to, for example block some wonders to you. So my guess is that the actual thing is impassable terrains and the literally expands because before that era the map won't even let you scroll to the region outside of it, and the minimap also would show only your half of the world as if it was a full map.

 

[Gori the Grey]

My guess is that the “new world” region starts off with an inaccessible interior which doesn’t open up until the Modern Era, allowing the game to model things like the Scramble for Africa, the settlement of Australia and Patagonia, Manifest Destiny, etc.

Interesting!